Garage CNC Cutting Table revolution.

Warwgn said:

I picked up my 1986 Honda Nighthawk 700S last year for next to nothing, just had to dig into the trans and replace a shift pawl and spring ($18 in parts including oil) have put close to 30,000 miles on it since then with nothing but oil changes, 2 rear tires and one front, and just put all new brake pads on. I got maybe $1000 in it total, and I average 46 Mpg cruising 60-70 MPH. It is right around 500Lbs I think, but feels small and light weight.

Lots of small bikes like mine out there that just need very minor things done and you can have a great bike for dirt cheap. I have ridden this one for 1000 miles in one day and think it is very reliable, I ride it to and from work every day. Hijack....sorry....PM me if you wanna chat

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They made some lovely bikes back in the '80's, very nice design, and it even came with electronic ignition!

Here's a CB550 from the same period, but converted into a cafe racer.

jacquesm said:

I just sold my business which was based exactly on what you describe.
(and I bought a small trawler with a small part of the proceeds )

See bateau.com
I developed panels for 25 years. Even with the best software, it takes some experience.
My CNC machine did cost about 20 times what you propose and the software is not cheap either.
To do a good job, check out Rhino 3D and Orca Marine for the design software, Vectric for the CNC programming and Shopbot for a decent entry level CNC machine but seriously, you"ll be better off buying a kit or a used boat.
I designed some small trawlers CNC kits: the TW28.
(Please don't consider this advertisement: I sold the business.)

BTW, I just bought a nice Prairie 29 trawler, in good condition, for half the price of a real CNC machine.

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Thanks for your first hand advise; its as I suspected not as easy as it appears...

As you say by the time you got everything up and running , bought the software and hardware, and spent months developing the surfaces it would probably be cheaper to buy ready made plans which included cutting files .

In a competitive open market things are usually priced to reflect the amount of work it takes to develop them. The age of plug and play 3d design will probably come to fruition in a few years time when big 3d printers and CNC machines become common place; but it hasn't happened yet .

jacquesm said:

No, I didn't. We sold hundreds of plans and I have seen more than 10 completed boats but wasn't aware that one of them was on this forum.

I would love to have TW28 but building cost more than to buy used. On the other hand, if you build, you"ll have a custom boat that you will also know in every detail.

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Hi Jacques. It's me, Rick. You probably know me as 'knottybuoyz' on the bateau forums. Contrats on the sale of Bateau.com & the Prairie Trawler. Hope to meet you on the waterways one day. Any plans to head to Canada and enjoy our canals?

When I started my TW28 adventure over 10 yrs ago a good used trawler was a lot more than building one. Seems after 2008 that all changed. Anyhow, I don't regret building my own no matter what the cost.

Cheers!

Rick

I follow your building at bateau2.com. I wanted a TW28 but the best offer I had to build one was 18 months and the cost was twice what I paid for the Prairie 29. At 70, time to enjoy cruising is getting tight.
Yes, I may come up to Canada. As you know, I have family there and always wanted to cruise the Lakes and the Maritimes.

I have a 4' x 8' ShotBot CNC in my (amateur) shop/barn. This lives between the 'hobby' category and a true industrial machine. Pricewise, think BMW motorcycle.

In terms of getting up to speed, 2 and 2.5 dimension design and toolpathing is pretty straightforward. ShopBot packages Vectric software which for a reasonably computer/engineering savvy person is fairly intuitive. I went and took ShopBot's intro course before purchasing the machine which was worthwhile and helpful in terms of getting a jump start. When I went, it was mostly cabinet shop staff in the course and it becomes obvious that computer/CAD skills are more relevant than traditional woodworking skills. There are some pretty interesting niche businesses using this technology.

I use the machine quite a bit. On one-off projects (most of what I do) it is not really a productivity tool but it does a much better job with complex joinery, inlays, etc than you could by hand. I would like to put it into more of a production mode where it would really 'pay-off'. The next project is a batch of 20 chairs which we are prototyping that should be interesting. The downside to production type runs is you basically are demoting yourself to assembler/sander/finisher once you dial it in.

Aside from the CAD/CAM side, the complexity is mostly around working through hold-downs and jigs, optimizing layouts and materials and figuring out bit speeds.

3D is easy to cut, but very complex to actually design. I have done some 3d from third party CAD files and a couple simple parts in OnShape (cloud based 3d CAD). I doubt 3d is worthwhile unless there is a high degree of re-use in most cases.

From a boat building perspective I would see the benefits in cutting frames. It is great for scarf joints in ply (did both of these a pram for the kids). The ShopBot founder was a Duke professor who was building dinghies.

Hope this context helps.

henryvt said:

I have a 4' x 8' ShotBot CNC in my (amateur) shop/barn. This lives between the 'hobby' category and a true industrial machine. Pricewise, think BMW motorcycle.

In terms of getting up to speed, 2 and 2.5 dimension design and toolpathing is pretty straightforward. ShopBot packages Vectric software which for a reasonably computer/engineering savvy person is fairly intuitive. I went and took ShopBot's intro course before purchasing the machine which was worthwhile and helpful in terms of getting a jump start. When I went, it was mostly cabinet shop staff in the course and it becomes obvious that computer/CAD skills are more relevant than traditional woodworking skills. There are some pretty interesting niche businesses using this technology.

I use the machine quite a bit. On one-off projects (most of what I do) it is not really a productivity tool but it does a much better job with complex joinery, inlays, etc than you could by hand. I would like to put it into more of a production mode where it would really 'pay-off'. The next project is a batch of 20 chairs which we are prototyping that should be interesting. The downside to production type runs is you basically are demoting yourself to assembler/sander/finisher once you dial it in.

Aside from the CAD/CAM side, the complexity is mostly around working through hold-downs and jigs, optimizing layouts and materials and figuring out bit speeds.

3D is easy to cut, but very complex to actually design. I have done some 3d from third party CAD files and a couple simple parts in OnShape (cloud based 3d CAD). I doubt 3d is worthwhile unless there is a high degree of re-use in most cases.

From a boat building perspective I would see the benefits in cutting frames. It is great for scarf joints in ply (did both of these a pram for the kids). The ShopBot founder was a Duke professor who was building dinghies.

Hope this context helps.

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Thanks very much for your input, its very useful to hear real diy experience from someone who has actually tried out the tech. I'm glad you agree with my son re. 3d development; its a very complex process which would be possible for an amateur to achieve,but would take an inordinate amount of time for a one off project.

So we are left with plans that come with cutting files that cost an extra $2-3k plus the $3-4k for the plasma cutting, or the old fashioned ' offer up & fit ' templates ....

Design choices?

stubones99 said:

They are using school bus windows for the pilot house... I brought it up and he shot me down saying so what if a wave breaks one. Except for the extra 5 tons of water filling the pilot house, swamping your electronics, your galley, and affecting your stability.

While I enjoy watching his efforts, I worry about his success on the open seas in a big storm.

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I agree , school bus Windows?.
There are many issues with the design(?) and construction. But he is getting a job done and if he is just wandering about as a dive boat , he thinks sailing, but I don't think it will be a good sailer, they may be ok. They will also have a shakedown cruise down the Mississippi river which will be quite a test!
I have learnt a number of things from watching them. His use of a cnc table is to be commended.
I was saved a huge possible problem by checking very carfull a welded up tank we made for leaks as he did with his skeg filled with engine cooling water as a sort of keel cooler, it took him a week to stop the leaks in the welds.
He also did not plan on adding any frames!( I was shot down too) But recently he is adding some so who knows.
I have tried not to be too critical and look at the big picture.
Warren

"I've noticed many boat plans that include cutting files are very expensive compared to the old fashioned lofted offsets, makes one think that it ain't that simple to generate the vast amount of data needed to develop compound curves."


Lofting a fair hull from a simple table of offsets actually is a skill that can be learned easily (best when demonstrated) and is Very low cost , great for a one off.

Designing in 3D CAD with professional software like Rhino3D and Orca3D is much more accurate than lofting on the floor.
About CNC, a good machine cost 40K. That and learning the skills can not be amortized over the building of one boat.

PS: For almost 20 years, I owned a business that sold CNC kits for boats up to 28'. There are several thousands of my kits afloat.