Trawler vs cruiser info for newbie

Hello everyone.

I'm new to this site but would like some advise.Thought this would be the best way to find out about owning a liveaboard boat than the well experienced crew than you .Thank you in advance for the time you spent.
Ok story
I have about 5-6 years before we retire and are seriously looking at buying a liveaboard boat to escape the winter months up here in Toronto.
Boat type would be a 1980 to 2000 44-50ft twin diesels ,cruiser or trawler. I really like the Viking due to the fact I love to fish and it might help out in the expenses if we could collect a little money either fishing charters or fish market.
Looking at mooring in Florida as our main base and venturing out from there. I have looked at some marina's that allow liveaboard and the price varies between 500.00 us to 1000.00 us. per month.It includes mooring elect. water wifi and a few other amenities.What else should I look for when looking for a good Marina plus what other cost i could expect when there.
This might cause a few arguments but do you prefer diesel or gas single engine or twins?
If I'm cruising from Florida to the outer islands /Bahamas how much would it cost re fuel /mooring and inspection passes/visa required.
We don't plan to do it a lot maybe 1 to 2 times and spending a month there .
And mostly what would be the cost to operate that size of boat for 6 months I plan to dry store it in the summer time so we can have maintenance done to it while out of the water.
Like I said I'm new to this but would like it to happen if this is financially accessible.
any information would be great.
Thank you.

Welcome to the forum!

If you're thinking about fishing charters or commercial fishing, there are license requirements. Simply, forget about it.

To be clear, mooring is on a mooring ball away from the dock and quite a bit less expensive. Think you are referring to getting a boat slip, yes?

In a 45 to 50' boat forget gas, it's diesel.

Ted

Ted is spot on.

Paul

Paul M said:

Ted is spot on.

Paul

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X2
There is tons of hard learned info on this site so find a comfy chair and tablet. Enjoy! Welcome aboard!

Commercial Fishing or chartering not only introduces additional licensing, it will also introduce different insurance policies, premiums, required safety equipment, etc. Also some marina's have restrictions on commercial fishing boats.

You will at best break even unless you start working your venture fulltime.

Good advise guys ty.
Yes Ted looking at a slip.
Was heading for diesel.

What is "the Viking"???? And what is your budget for the boat? And no need to dry store the boat in the summer. You can leave it in a slip. I know you have a northern mentality where it is normal to store boats out of the water for long periods of time. In the warmer climes, that mentality does not exist...nor the resources and money to do it. IOW, it would excessively expensive to do it since the yards do not cater to this type of storage.

To give you an example...I bought a boat in New York. I was shocked at how "cheap" it was to haul a boat...chock it...and paint the bottom!!...as well as store it all winter. Why was it so cheap??? Because the yards do that every year. They haul and store boats on land every year so they have the resources and are geared to do that so they can cater to that part of the industry. Down here in the South, we don't do that nor do we have the space and "infrastructure" to do it. It can be done, but it is not cheap and usually it is a daily rate and not a monthly rate. It just isn't part of the boating culture down here like it is up there.

I get the impression that you're planning on keeping it in FL versus going back and forth to Canada. You will need to check the laws regarding length of stay in the USA and FL. If you buy and register the boat in FL, probably less of an issue. I'm sure some of the Canadians on this site can advise you better on this.

Insurance can be a significant cost depending on the months in FL (hurricanes). Not being in FL (or possibly out of the water) May through October makes a big difference. Liability insurance is a big issue at FL marinas. Most marinas will require proof of insurance if you're planning on staying more than a couple of nights.

Ted

Forget trawlers vs cruisers. The vast majority of "trawlers" are simply cruisers by a different name. Look for boat styles that fit your use intentions.

Look at ten boats and buy the wrong one. Look at 50 and maybe you will buy the right one for you.

My advice is to follow you signifcant other lead especially for being a live aboard. Make sure its easy to get on off and in out using on arm hand and using much strength. Unless you are going to get technical and special use there is not much difference between a cruise trawler than the look design of the super structure, except a trawler look more salty.

Best is to take the significant other to look at boats and follow her around and take note of likes dislikes. You might be pleasantly surprised. Since you are buying used the boats present condition and maintenance is more important than the band name. My wife found and bought our boat.

And that Roughwater is salty!

Greetings,
Welcome aboard eh?

bayview said:

Forget trawlers vs cruisers. The vast majority of "trawlers" are simply cruisers by a different name. Look for boat styles that fit your use intentions.

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Yeah, two marketing terms, neither descriptive enough to enumerate the specific individual features a given boater may want for a specific mission.

OP should go for features; everything else will fall into place.

-Chris

Yes I will be leaving the boat in Florida.
Max budget would be $100000.00 US this would be a boat that requires little work to start with.
I would be on the boat by myself if I didn't get my wife's input lol.
We require a boating license here in Ontario. Do you require one in the states re captains certificate.
What's the average for boat insurance.
You all have been great for your cheers and support if everyone is this friendly I think we made a good choice.

The aft cabin sundeck style Viking on my marina has a narrow pseudo cockpit tacked on, for that it gets called a "yachtfisher". A conventional cockpit type boat will give you fishing ability too.
The advice to look at lots of boats is good, your thoughts may change and refine as your knowledge of what is out there grows. IMO twin diesels is the go, but plenty of members with boats in your target range manage well with a single engine, and maybe thrusters one or both ends.

You say nothing about your experience. Before we can really respond intelligently to your questions need to know some of that.

As to boating license in Canada and Captain's license, two very different things. Captain's license requires some courses and/or testing plus a good bit of sea time.

In response to some of the comments on pulling the boat out of the water for the summer, there are places in Florida for that and some reasonably priced.

I guess I must ask this question and that is why not take it to Ontario for the summer? Or at least somewhere closer you could visit it off and on?

Mikeymikefishing said:

Yes I will be leaving the boat in Florida.
Max budget would be $100000.00 US this would be a boat that requires little work to start with.
I would be on the boat by myself if I didn't get my wife's input lol.
We require a boating license here in Ontario. Do you require one in the states re captains certificate.
What's the average for boat insurance.
You all have been great for your cheers and support if everyone is this friendly I think we made a good choice.

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From the BoatUS website:

In Florida, anyone born on or after January 1, 1988, who operates a vessel powered by 10 horsepower or more must pass an approved boater safety course and have in his/her possession photographic identification and a boater safety identification card issued by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

Boat insurance is based on lots of factors.
Hull insurance is based on value, type of boat, speed, construction etc.
Liability insurance is probably based on how much damage you can do with the boat.
Pick a boat and try some online boat insurers to get a basic idea. When you get ready to make an offer, contact an insurance agent.

Ted

"Also some marina's have restrictions on commercial fishing boats."

AS the added foot traffic on the dock and extra parking requirements require more insurance , and are very disliked by most existing marina customers.

Mikeymikefishing said:

Boat type would be a 1980 to 2000 44-50ft twin diesels ,cruiser or trawler. I really like the Viking due to the fact I love to fish and it might help out in the expenses if we could collect a little money either fishing charters or fish market.

Looking at mooring in Florida as our main base and venturing out from there. I have looked at some marina's that allow liveaboard and the price varies between 500.00 us to 1000.00 us. per month.It includes mooring elect. water wifi and a few other amenities.What else should I look for when looking for a good Marina plus what other cost i could expect when there.

This might cause a few arguments but do you prefer diesel or gas single engine or twins?

Click to expand...

Mikeymikefishing said:

Max budget would be $100000.00 US this would be a boat that requires little work to start with.

We require a boating license here in Ontario. Do you require one in the states re captains certificate.

What's the average for boat insurance.

Click to expand...

A Viking sportfish could be great for fishing. May or may not suffice as a long-term liveaboard and that would depend on you and your requirement for interior space. Compare a sportfish (or convertible) design with good cockpit space versus an aft-cabin motor yacht with additional cabin space.

Here in MD, as an example, chartering means I need a USCG license (not just a simple State "Boater ID" card), a fishing guide license from MD, a charter operator license from MD, a license from MD to sell our catch commercially... plus commercial chartering insurance... plus a place to keep the boat where passenger pick-up/drop-off and fish cleaning (charter operators, usually the mate, usually clean the fish for their clients) is OK. Often, a marina with "amenities" isn't the same as a marina where several charters operate. Plus some advertising and associated costs. Chartering also needs a personality that works with all sorts of clients. And it also means you'd have all sorts clients, many intent on beating up your boat, even with you there and able to say "don't do that" at the top of your lungs.

Can't speak to average insurance. A fair bit more than simple recreational operator's insurance, but much depends on boat, frequency of chartering, operating area, etc.


Lots of threads here about gas vs. diesel. FWIW, I prefer diesel for our own activities, but there are many valid arguments why gas could be OK or even better for whatever you intend to do. Dock condo, for example, although there are many more.


Check ActiveCaptain for marina amenities, or the MarinaLife database is easier for filtering on various requirements you might have (floating docks, pool, etc.)


$100K might or might not find you a boat "that requires little work to start with."


-Chris

I know Timjet has a boat on here, a Carver 355, for $78k that requires little or no work and is pretty much loaded out with everything you need. It is NOT a fishing boat but an Aft Cabin Motoryacht. You could easily cruise it as he has done for the past many months. And it is diesel. I prefer diesel for SAFETY reasons and not necessarily longevity or efficiency. In my boating career, I have personally witnessed 4 boats blown sky high and people died and lost appendages. We had one blow up in the marina at the fuel dock last Friday. Thanks tiny little baby Jesus, no one was hurt. It was a miracle really. The other SAFETY issue is Carbon Monoxide(CO). A properly running diesel produces almost no CO. Longevity and efficiency are just an added bonus.

These two photos are of the boat that had just exploded. One is while it is at the Dock. The other is a pic of the cockpit lazarette cover that blew out into the marina. It was an older Sea Ray Sedan Bridge 30. Only operator with his dog on board and both were on flybridge when it happened. Had anyone been in the salon area they would have been badly burned or killed. ALL of the windows were blown out.

Bafflingly and as a sidenote, an UNprofessional tow crew showed up to tow the boat. It was Bubba and his other brother, Bubba. They were inspecting the boat before tow. One Bubba boarded the boat WITH A LIT CIGARETTE in hand, and then disappeared inside the boat. Unbelievable!!!

Hello MikeyMike,

We are neighbours - I live in Markham and keep my boat in Whitby. She was just listed for sale and might be what you are looking for. You can see her here 1985 Ocean Alexander 38 Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com If you are interested give the listing broker a call. Good luck.

David

Thanks all for your valuable advise you gave me a lot to think about.
Definitely will be looking for a twin diesel preferably cats.
I work for Mercedes-Benz and know something about engine / motors so will be a easy inspection.
You have convinced me to scrap the idea of chartering or commercial fishing. I love fishing to much to let politics get in the way. The only thing is I will have to spend more money for new big water fishing gear. If I'm lucky maybe the boat we buy will include this.lol:lol:
Someone asked how much experience I have to awnser I have been on the water for most of my life and have great respect for the waters and the winds and pretty good at reading the condition . The only thing that would worry me a bit would be docking a boat of that size into a tight slip in high winds.
Heading down this winter to look at some and Luke someone said look at 50. So I might have to make a couple of trips this year.
Next post will be other that engine or boat structure /leaks what would be the two most important thing s you would look for when buying a boat.
Once again thank you class act.

Hi Mike,
You and I are in very similar situations, although I live down here in FL year round (as a side note, I grew up in Crystal Beach, Ont, down near Fort Erie).

Wife and I are going back and forth on what type of boat to get: cruiser or trawler.

We both have committed to each other that we will do 2-3 years liveaboard, then after that time, decide whether to go further with this dream or not. She is retired, I've got a couple more years to go.

We both want to spend the first year in FL waters getting used to the boat - whatever boat it is. After that we want to take a crack at some time between FL and The Bahamas, then would like to take a run down to the US Virgin Islands and possibly points further south. Simple, right? Well.....

She's a retired interior designer, so she's loving the sexy look of the Cruisers Yachts Cantius 48. It is a great looking boat, and something that we could easily live on - in a marina somewhere in FL and The Bahamas. I don't think for a minute that it would be a comfortable ride down the Thorny Path or across the Mona Passage.

My choice would be a DeFever 49 with paravanes. Lots of comfort, built to outlast either one of us, extremely comfortable, fantastic engine room, lots of fuel capacity, GREAT fuel consumption (especially compared to the Cantius 48), but in her eyes it's about as sexy as Elmer Fudd.

So the debate continues. In the end, it's going to come down to "Honey, where do you want to go with the boat?". This will ultimately tilt the scale one way or the other. I'm easy; I'm tired of the rat race and you could put me on a Cuban raft and I'd be happy.

So as others have said, Welcome! and enjoy the search engine.

"It is a great looking boat,"

Remind your bride most time living aboard you are in or on the boat , your neighbors get to see it not you.

To me a great sea boat trumps a "pretty boat" 100-1.

FF said:

To me a great sea boat trumps a "pretty boat" 100-1.

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To me, a happy wife trumps EVERYTHING 100-1 !!!!

FF said:

"It is a great looking boat,"

Remind your bride most time living aboard you are in or on the boat , your neighbors get to see it not you.

To me a great sea boat trumps a "pretty boat" 100-1.

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<GROAN> Please don't get me goin' on this LOL. She's always reminding me that women don't dress for men; they dress for other women!

Same ROE goes for the boat in her mind.

How CAN'T she find a DeFever stand up engine room sexy?

tcpip95 said:

<GROAN> Please don't get me goin' on this LOL. She's always reminding me that women don't dress for men; they dress for other women!

Same ROE goes for the boat in her mind.

How CAN'T she find a DeFever stand up engine room sexy?

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Well, I'm on her side as I find nothing about a DeFever's appearance sexy. However, I'm not on her side going beyond that. Appearance is very secondary to us when choosing a boat. Utility for our purpose is number one by a mile. Sleek often is inconsistent with space and use, although it doesn't have to be. Our Sunseeker looks sleek but that's somewhat window dressing as the boat is really shaped fairly much boxy. The interior and the package it's wrapped in are far different.

Mikeymikefishing said:

Yes I will be leaving the boat in Florida.
Max budget would be $100000.00 US this would be a boat that requires little work to start with.
I would be on the boat by myself if I didn't get my wife's input lol.
We require a boating license here in Ontario. Do you require one in the states re captains certificate.
What's the average for boat insurance.
You all have been great for your cheers and support if everyone is this friendly I think we made a good choice.

Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a boaters license in Canada/Ontario. There is an absurdly simple test to acquire a PCOC card Which is NOT a license.

Technically, neither is there a Captains License in Canada. There is however a Masters Certificate of varying degrees available through Transport Canada with varying degrees of commercial experience required depending on the class of Certificate.

boatpoker said:

There is no such thing as a boaters license in Canada/Ontario. There is an absurdly simple test to acquire a PCOC card Which is NOT a license.

Technically, neither is there a Captains License in Canada. There is however a Masters Certificate of varying degrees available through Transport Canada with varying degrees of commercial experience required depending on the class of Certificate.

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Ultimately most Canadian Captains are going to go outside of Canada, in which case they'll need STCW licenses, just as US captains need outside the US. For use just in Canada there is a Master Limited Certificate and a Master 150 GT Domestic and a Master 500 GT Domestic. The Master Limited is required for any commercial vessel over 5 GT. The 150 GT is good up to 150 GT near coastal, 150 GT limited voyage, contiguous waters (if so endorsed) and 500 GT on sheltered waters. There is also a Fishing Master good for fishing vessels up to 100 GT.

Very similar to US and MCA and RYA and to go outside the home country, all must be STCW.

BandB said:

Ultimately most Canadian Captains are going to go outside of Canada, in which case they'll need STCW licenses, just as US captains need outside the US. For use just in Canada there is a Master Limited Certificate and a Master 150 GT Domestic and a Master 500 GT Domestic. The Master Limited is required for any commercial vessel over 5 GT. The 150 GT is good up to 150 GT near coastal, 150 GT limited voyage, contiguous waters (if so endorsed) and 500 GT on sheltered waters. There is also a Fishing Master good for fishing vessels up to 100 GT.

Very similar to US and MCA and RYA and to go outside the home country, all must be STCW.

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STCW is a training standard with a certificate not a license.
There are several Canadian Certificates which have been grandfathered and are no longer available. There is also wide range of special endorsements available for each certificate that do not show up on the TC website. eg. I have two grandfathered certificates and an amphibious endorsement on one.