Retrieving anchor

psneeld said:

.......... Plus anyone that thinks a windlass is an automatic finger grabber....given how slow most are...needs more time with chainsaws.....

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If you are suggesting that people not think safety when using a boat windlass, that's some pretty irresponsible advice. Used carelessly, it can easily amputate a finger.

With some modification usually required to create a genuine chain locker , (which has dimensions , not just dumped onto a surface) it could be easy to have the locker self draining .

Then the chain could be washed by flushing the anchor locker , no mud stink, little effort.

WesK said:

If you are suggesting that people not think safety when using a boat windlass, that's some pretty irresponsible advice. Used carelessly, it can easily amputate a finger.

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Wes, I think he was alluding to the fact, that if we think windlasses are dangerous to fingers, be extra aware of chainsaws, as they are far worse. At least that was my take on it.

I have a faucet in a locker on the fore deck. My anchor locker actually drains through a dedicated through hull.

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread by asking this (or showing my ignorance), but this is the 2nd time this subject has come up in as many days. A friend with a new to them boat was on board the other day and asked if we use the windlass to pull the anchor all the way up or do we pull it the last few feet by hand. Seems they had to rebuild their windlass a few times doing that.

Why wouldn't you pull it all the way up with the windlass? I certainly don't over tighten it. I sort of pull it up a foot or do at a time at the end. I don't see how you could do the last few feet by hand. Feeding loose chain onto the gear teeth? Am I misreading something? I always rinse the all-chain rode as it comes up 5-10 feet at a time so chain is not just flying into the windlass/locker.

Should I be doing something different?

River Rat said:

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread by asking this (or showing my ignorance), but this is the 2nd time this subject has come up in as many days. A friend with a new to them boat was on board the other day and asked if we use the windlass to pull the anchor all the way up or do we pull it the last few feet by hand. Seems they had to rebuild their windlass a few times doing that.

Why wouldn't you pull it all the way up with the windlass? I certainly don't over tighten it. I sort of pull it up a foot or do at a time at the end. I don't see how you could do the last few feet by hand. Feeding loose chain onto the gear teeth? Am I misreading something? I always rinse the all-chain rode as it comes up 5-10 feet at a time so chain is not just flying into the windlass/locker.

Should I be doing something different?

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I don't understand how you would do the last few feet by hand either unless the windlass was broken and you disengaged the chain from the gypsy.

I had to pull the anchor up by hand a few times when my windlass failed but I reached out in front of the roller, pulled the chain up by hand and laid it on the deck (the first time). I removed the broken windlass which made it easier to pull the anchor up by hand and feed it into the locker until I was able to replace the windlass.

River Rat said:

Why wouldn't you pull it all the way up with the windlass? I certainly don't over tighten it. I sort of pull it up a foot or do at a time at the end. I don't see how you could do the last few feet by hand. Feeding loose chain onto the gear teeth? Am I misreading something? I always rinse the all-chain rode as it comes up 5-10 feet at a time so chain is not just flying into the windlass/locker.

Should I be doing something different?

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No. Of course pull it all the way up with the windlass. Just take care those last few feet to not slam it home, and that it has come up and over ok, and right way round. What kills the windlass is trying to rip a stuck anchor out of the bottom with the windlass power only, instead of snubbing off and using the boat wave lift, or forward motion to break it free, or backing down too hard on it to set the anchor.

River Rat said:

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread by asking this (or showing my ignorance), but this is the 2nd time this subject has come up in as many days. A friend with a new to them boat was on board the other day and asked if we use the windlass to pull the anchor all the way up or do we pull it the last few feet by hand. Seems they had to rebuild their windlass a few times doing that.

Why wouldn't you pull it all the way up with the windlass? I certainly don't over tighten it. I sort of pull it up a foot or do at a time at the end. I don't see how you could do the last few feet by hand. Feeding loose chain onto the gear teeth? Am I misreading something? I always rinse the all-chain rode as it comes up 5-10 feet at a time so chain is not just flying into the windlass/locker.

Should I be doing something different?

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May depend on what your friend wasn't saying. If he meant they routinely pull the boat all the way up to the anchor, or that they only use the windlass to break the anchor out of a solid set, then that could explain having to rebuild the windlass a few times.

Otherwise, I can't think of much reason to not lift the anchor all the way onboard with the windlass... unless there's something about the set-up (combination of pulpit design/size, anchor design/size/weight, windlass power/location and final rode vector) that would suggest doing otherwise.

In our case, all that stuff conspires against us so I have to bring our anchor up the last few feet manually... but it's not about the windlass itself. Wouldn't hurt the windlass to do those last three feet or so, but it'd slam the flukes into the underside of the pulpit as the shank breaks over the roller if I did it that way. I haven't go a slow-enough speed to do that last bit with the windlass, and haven't ever found a useful clutch adjustment to enable that. And then our anchor sometimes (often) doesn't present itself correct-side-up, anyway, so I have to be up there...

-Chris

Two points from me.

The first is around bringing it up 5-10 feet at a time. Check your windlass manual (on-line if you don't have one at hand). some motors fair better when used continuously rather than stopping and starting like that. Many davit motors for example.

Secondly, regarding "slamming it home." The admiral is the one who carries out anchor duties. One of the first times we anchored out (maybe even THE first time) she slammed the anchor home, right up to the anchor shackle. Then put on the pawl.

The next time we went to anchor the shackle was so far up against the deck hardware that she could not release the chain the inch or so it takes to get the pawl off. I had to quickly run up there and get it sorted. It was a nice on-the-job lesson though and now she makes sure that when the anchor shank is about to hit the roller she is careful to bring it in up to a link or two from the deck hardware.

Many windlasses have a manual overide. I have used mine on occasion just to practice, but have heard that some people do it because it is more controlled than some windlasses that retrieve pretty quick.

The other reason is how the anchor nestles on the bow, the windlass can really slap it in there and some may think that's bad.

If the friends had to rebuild their windlass just from raising it out of the water and into the roller, the something else is going on..one possibility is how they use it in general and just THINK the last few feet was doing the damage. Or the windlass is wayyyyy undersized....or.....well lots of possibilities but most people I know don't bring it in the last few feet manually.

Thanks to all of those replies! There's a lot to learn to be a good Admiral. Leaves room for self doubt! ��

FlyWright said:

My anchor locker has no drain, no mud and no smell.

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Wow, that is hard for me to imagine. I hose down my anchor every time I bring it up, and unless I am out for a long time, I use fresh water to do it. If I didn't, and particularly if I didn't have a drain, the anchor locker would be nasty in a short time. On my sailboat I didn't have a washdown pump. I would hose down the anchor locker every time I returned to the dock and would flush lots of mud out of the drain.

Without a drain, I would be worried about corrosion if nothing else.

I know...it befuddles me, too. But it's been clean for 9 years and I probably anchor an average of 10 times per month. It's a combo rode but most anchorings are with all chain (120 ft). It's not often that I let out enough rode to lay the Brait on the bottom. I guess I do an OK job of keeping the muck out of the locker. Maybe our bottom mud is not as sticky as yours up there. Anyone who has been on my boat knows there are no smells from my anchor locker. It also might be the difference between my brackish/fresh waters and your saltwaters.

Last October a Hatteras decided to park on my anchor pulpit during the San Francisco Fleet Week air show. In the process of rebuilding the pulpit, the anchor locker was emptied of its rode. I was there for the dropping of the anchor. The locker was very clean...just wiped it out with a little Simple Green and a towel. It had not been emptied since the extra 90 ft of chain was added in April 2011.

With my combo rode, the chain rests on the 240 ft of 5/8 Brait in the bottom of the locker. As far as I can tell, there is no water pooling there.

A friend of mine just cut off about 100 feet of his chain.

The locker didn't drain well...but it was a new boat to him so not his fault.

Much of that 100 feet was rusted together on clumps...so badly that even a hammer didn't knock them apart easily or well.

The boat wasn't that old. The cut was from the end that was just swapped from the anchor end....once the galvanizing is compromised, and it sits in even rain water, there's enough salt around that it quickly deteriorates.

My boat had great looking chain...200 feet of it but amazingly enough 5 or 6 links, random ones, were wasted badly. One down to a hairs thickness. I think a few were from sitting in water, the badly wasted one could have been exposed to an uncovered 12v solenoid terminal.

When I bring my anchor up (with the windlass), I stop the windlass short of pulling it all the way in and then use short bursts to get it to where it belongs.

FlyWright said:

With my combo rode, the chain rests on the 240 ft of 5/8 Brait in the bottom of the locker. As far as I can tell, there is no water pooling there.

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I wonder if it is a combination of the nylon line keeping the chain out of any water that does accumulate under the water evaporates and the fresh water? In any event, it is great that you don't have any issues.

Some of the mud that comes up with my anchor and chain is very sticky stuff and takes a lot of hosing down to clear it off.

dhays said:

Some of the mud that comes up with my anchor and chain is very sticky stuff and takes a lot of hosing down to clear it off.

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I found some of that mud last week on an overnight hook. It took lots of spraying and some persistent poking with the boat hook to release the cement-like mud from my anchor. Very unusual for most of my anchorings.

I have long been of the opinion that the three ways of hurting the windlass are:
1 to raise the anchor without using the boat to maintain slack on the rode
2 to not use a snubber when anchored so that the shock and pull are on the windlass and not the cleats
3 when the anchor does not just easily lift out, using the windlass rather than the boat and snubber to break the anchor out.

I just don't see where lifting the anchor the last five feet is going to wreck the windlass.

I have a swivel. But I don't simply crank the anchor aboard. Usually have to wash off mud and sometimes pick off vegetation before complete recovery. So, I operate anchor recovery from the pedals at the windlass with a fresh-water hose in-hand.

menzies said:

A question. With a chain gypsy I would have thought that the anchor HAD to return the right way up since the chain links deploy and return the same way on the ratchets?

Or are we discussing anchors with swivels that somehow negates that??

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The chain will twist when the boat swings around where the anchor is set.

foggysail said:

The chain will twist when the boat swings around where the anchor is set.

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It will. But when brought back to the gypsy it HAS to reverse that twist and return the same way it was deployed unless it has jumped off the gypsy ratchets.

Hence the anchor will be correctly aligned.

We have a couple of green wire ties on a link we like to stop the chain at. This prevents ramming it home.

menzies said:

It will. But when brought back to the gypsy it HAS to reverse that twist and return the same way it was deployed unless it has jumped off the gypsy ratchets.

Hence the anchor will be correctly aligned.

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That is not my experience. And yes, I have a swivel and there are times when twisted chain jumps and rides over (not off) the gypsy. The chain tension keeps it from falling off the gypsy even when twisted links pass over it.

My ground tackle consists of an 80# anchor with 5/16" HT chain and a Maxwell HWC 2200 windlass. Further, with a swivel there will always be an uncertainty factor as to how the anchor's position will arrive at the bow roller.

menzies said:

It will. But when brought back to the gypsy it HAS to reverse that twist and return the same way it was deployed unless it has jumped off the gypsy ratchets.

Hence the anchor will be correctly aligned.

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foggysail said:

That is not my experience. And yes, I have a swivel and there are times when twisted chain jumps and rides over (not off) the gypsy. The chain tension keeps it from falling off the gypsy even when twisted links pass over it.

My ground tackle consists of an 80# anchor with 5/16" HT chain and a Maxwell HWC 2200 windlass. Further, with a swivel there will always be an uncertainty factor as to how the anchor's position will arrive at the bow roller.

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What Menzies describes has actually been proven to be so in my case, sans swivel, but I have a groove in the rollers that tends to orientate the chain the same way coming up as it was going down, and yes, from past experience a swivel negates that natural aligning effect. It also might be somewhat less effective with a gypsy shaft which is not horizontal, i.e. a vertical gypsy, where the shaft is vertical, so the gypsy rotates parallel to the deck, might be more likely for the chain to jump a bit. I think...

Although I have foot switches at the bow, I usually raise the anchor from the helm. I don't anchor in mud so no washing required. My main anchor doesn't have have a top & bottom so alignment isn't an issue either.

To avoid over-stressing the windlass motor I keep the clutch adjusted so it will slip if the anchor is pulled hard up against the bow roller.

WesK said:

When I bring my anchor up (with the windlass), I stop the windlass short of pulling it all the way in and then use short bursts to get it to where it belongs.

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Me too.

My windlass is oversized for my boat's anchor. Further, I operate it with a 24v bank to minimize voltage drop in the existing wires there were sized by Silverton for a smaller 12v Goodie windlass. I learned the hard way that one SHOULD NOT use his windlass to pull the anchor continuously but rather in short bursts of pulls.

The problem with pulling continuously is most times I found the windlass pulling the boat, heck what did I care......my windlass can pull the gonads off an elephant. Foolish thoughts! The chain set so firmly into the gypsy that the chain stripper got ripped off the deck along with the hawser.

I now always use short pulls from the helm and carefully use the engines to relieve as much strain as possible on the chain. Also use the engines to free the anchor, not the windlass.

foggysail said:

The problem with pulling continuously is most times I found the windlass pulling the boat, heck what did I care......my windlass can pull the gonads off an elephant. Foolish thoughts! The chain set so firmly into the gypsy that the chain stripper got ripped off the deck along with the hawser.

I now always use short pulls from the helm and carefully use the engines to relieve as much strain as possible on the chain. Also use the engines to free the anchor, not the windlass.

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Are you usually retrieving the anchor solo?

My wife is the anchor wench. When she is on the bow with her foot on the switch she has her arm out giving me the direction AND the horizontal line of the chain. I can then use the engines to power in that direction to have the boat come up on the anchor. As her arm starts to lower, meaning I am coming up on the anchor or the chain is too slack I ease off on the engines. When she has her arm straight down it means I am over the anchor and can push past a little to bump it off.

Doing this we always retrieve continuously.

Under little strain, the windlass should have little trouble lifting 100 feet of chain or so continuously or something else is wrong.

psneeld said:

Under little strain, the windlass should have little trouble lifting 100 feet of chain or so continuously or something else is wrong.

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Not attempting to be snotty...but did you read my post? It has nothing to do with anchor chain length where I described my windlass problems when using it to move the boat while retrieving the anchor.

Whatever works for you is just fine by me. In the mean time I will retrieve my anchor using the method I described earlier.