are dual helm stations really needed

My wife and I are looking at small trawlers and see that most have dual helms and wondered if the inside one is really used that much. It seems it would be convenient, but the extra inside space would be nice and from a practical point of view, we suspect we will try to be fair weather users and the flybridge visibility seems very practical. All insight would be appreciated.

It is largely a matter of personal preference, particularly if one boats only during fair weather and benign conditions.

After piloting only sailboats in an open cockpit, I'm looking forward to the safety and shelter of a pilothouse.

They might not be needed, but make a boat more enjoyable.

It is great to steer inside completely out of the weather a lot of times.

Equally nice to have the great view and open air feeling only operating a boat from a flybridge can give.

I say try and get both.* But if I could only have one I would take inside.

JohnP

This question has come up before and gone on at length.

I'm one who has both stations but very seldom use the bridge station. My boat has excellent visibility from inside. We chose it for that reason. We used to go out in all kinds of weather, heavy rain, snow at times, freezing cold and of course the warmer weather.

I also learned early on that if the water is rough I don't much care for the bridge. It's downright dangerous to try to get down once you are in it and the motion is amplified a lot.

It is truly what suits you. Many are the exact opposite but none are wrong.
Of course some boats don't give you a choice, there is either no inside station or it so poor that to safely run the boat, for visibility, you must use the upper station.

If you have no experience with both then I would suggest a vessel with both and try them as you work out your useage pattern. You may be like me and start with the bridge and eventually gravitate to inside.

JohnP wrote:
They might not be needed, but make a boat more enjoyable.

It is great to steer inside completely out of the weather a lot of times.

Equally nice to have the great view and open air feeling only operating a boat from a flybridge can give.

I say try and get both.* But if I could only have one I would take inside.

JohnP

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I agree wih every word in JohnP's post.

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Dual-helm stations sounds like a lot of duplication and double expense: helm (wheel), engine controls and instruments, radio, as well as*displays for*depth-finder, GPS, auto-pilot, radar, etc.*

Is it not true that on the flybridge you "see' more , hence easier to "park" ?

We have both and LOVE our lower helm. Summer/warm weather= we're on the bridge! Cool/rainy/not nice out= we are at the lower helm! I strongly prefer the lower helm for going through locks, etc. I absolutely want both on my boats at this time.

In the end of course it is personal preference, but where you cruise can also have a big bearing on how you prefer to run your boat.*

If it rains a lot when you are cruising, you will probably want an inside station. If the sun beats down a lot when you are cruising, you will probably want an inside station. If it's snowing a lot when you are cruising, you should probably have your head examined...

Generally visibility is much better from the upper station at least under way, while docking is often much better facilitated from the lower helm.

We have both on our 32 footer, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Summer cruising is pretty much always done from upstairs but if rain hits hard or we're cruising in the off season it's downstairs where I'll be.

Also on our boat the upper helm seats happen to be much more comfortable, so that also is a factor in where I'm helming.*

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Both helm stations REALLY have their useful*place (in more than one independent circumstance for safety reasons too).* Piloting on the fly Bridge is for fun in the sun, fresh air, and the best darn visibility money can buy (nice view at anchor too... great for watching fireworks during 4 O July).* Interior is for general looping along while chatting with friends in the salon and for inclement weather.* On my 34 Tollycraft tri cabin while docking and other close quarter maneuvers, for me,*the bridge wins hands down.* Just today Linda and I pulled bow first into our 40 long*x 16 wide*overhead covered slip with 30 + mph wind gusting down the canal at 45 degree angle into my starboard rear quarter... at day break it had been near 50 mph, a nasty and unpredicted little blow... we both had to come into dock today for business reasons tomorrow so we did! **At slow speed, as I*gear shifted and throttled the*boat through into a sharp 180 degree turn, Linda was ready to jump with a spring line in hand for a quick cinch on a dock post as soon as I entered and then held position.* In addition we had in tow a 4 seat, bimini top, 50 hp, 1975 classic 14 Crestliner runabout with a real short line to a transom center cleat and fenders on the swim step edge.* Due to my*being on bridge for complete visual command, verbal communications with Linda, and maneuvering with twin screw we docked first try without incident.* Yup Im in love with both pilot stations... but ... in my opinion, the bridge rules!!* BTW, I like twin screw too... especially in situations such as today.
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Happy Boating - Art

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I've always understood that the "bridge" of a boat as the control station of the vessel.* Whether it is "upstairs" or "downstairs" doesn't matter.* Dual helm stations equal two bridges.

Our previous boat was dual helm and I found I used the flybridge for docking only, once underway, unless it was a really nice day I would be down below. With the Manatee I find the perfect compromise, it's heated, covered, can be opened on nice days and great visibility. It can get a bit rocky though in rough water/beam seas.

If the boat is really wide a wing bridge is useful to assist seeing the dock easily.

Steering up in an oxygen tent is fun , but here in FL the tent must be air conditioned , and the water has to be pretty flat.

I am strictly a flybridge person. I've only run from the lower helm once or twice. I use it sometimes while riding out a tx storm at anchor.

We steer from the F/b about 95% of the time, we have a comfortable lower helm station but the only time we steer from below is in cold, rain, or rough weather, and on a rare overnight passage, when one sleeps while the other keeps watch. We are seldom out in rough weather or water unless it pops up unpredicted. Our F/B is enclosed, in the summer when it gets hot we zip open a couple of , or all, the panels. We have the same instrumentation and electronics at both stations which provides some, but not complete, redundancy.
This topic is like twins vs single engines, or the best anchor. I believe it is a matter of personal choice influenced by the conditions you boat in.

Steve W.

I like the option of interior or exterior helm station. What never did make sense to me is duplicating the interior helm on the flybridge by enclosing everything. Maybe a bimini to keep of the sun or rain, but if I need an enclosed helm, I go below.

dvd wrote:I like the option of interior or exterior helm station. What never did make sense to me is duplicating the interior helm on the flybridge by enclosing everything. Maybe a bimini to keep of the sun or rain, but if I need an enclosed helm, I go below.

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*I much agree with what dvd mentions...*
Berthing around SF Bay and its Deltas temperate climate enables us to take our 34' Tolly tri cabin out many times a year, to cruise and/or hang on the hook, enjoying 3 to 5 day weekends.* We just completed a Thursday noon through Sunday weekend on the Delta.* I generally only captain from the bridge... loving the natural air, sounds, smells, visuals and more with my first mate wife at my side and our kids there too when they can join our cruise!* We would not enclose our bridge and/or sun deck in a tent, no matter how many windows could be opened; and yes, weve been aboard boats that are enclosed, so we know what it feels like.* As dvd mentions... if the weather is too inclement and we want enclosure we go inside the salon for piloting or for party!* We keep two large bimini tops on our bridge and sun deck.* For us, another reason the enclosure would be cumbersome is that we need to drop both bimini as well as the anchor light mast in order to get into our covered berth.*
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As is always the way with nearly every portion of a personally owned pleasure craft Each To Their Own!* As long as you enjoy it and its no danger to yourself or others... THEN DO IT!* And, Keep On Smiling, errrr Boating!*
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Cheers, Art*

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Hopefully, one helm station will suffice for me.

Well there is a boat seat for everybody isn't there? In our case we wanted only the bridge controls. We think we have the best of both worlds now. Our flybridge is very roomy and will seat 8 folks easily (we don't cruise with more than another couple anyway) and is only 3 steps up from the Sundeck, so it is easy to reach regardless of sea conditions. Since the FB is totally enclosed with a hard top, it is fine in all weather with excellent visibility and ventilation. Although not air conditioned at present, we could do so, but haven't felt the need. In Florida, heat is not much of a concern of course. We really enjoy our salon and with the galley down config, we don't feel like we are sitting in the dining room, galley or helm when we are relaxing. We have a nice wet bar in the area that would have otherwise been the lower station. Our salon has a very 'at home' feel to it that we like a lot and we spend a considerable amount of our time split between the salon and sundeck (also enclosed).

Folks that like electronic gadgets can easily get by with NO helm station.

The steering , auto pilot and engine controls can be operated with a remolte.

Perhaps (I hope so ) the bow cockpit like Midnight Lace featured will finally make a comeback.

All depends on where you boat. If you are somewhere warm with a nice breeze you'll love to be on a flybridge, seeing everything around for miles. If on the other hand the weather had turned cool or wet, a lower station definitely shows it's advantages. Abit depends on the boat, can you find your slip backing into your slip from inside ? If not, the flybridge might been you friend. But if you need to leave the helm to help get a line on the dock...then being downstairs is a plus. There is no right answer for everyone, but for me I like the options. In the SF Bay it can be cool and windy, but up in the delta I'm looking forward to the open flybridge.

Good luck and let us know where you land...

If on the other hand the weather had turned cool or wet, a lower station definitely shows it's advantages

ASk me about our early April trip from Rockport Maine to CT, if you want an opinion on the virtues of inside steering.

markpierce wrote:
Dual-helm stations sounds like a lot of duplication and double expense: helm (wheel), engine controls and instruments, radio, as well as*displays for*depth-finder, GPS, auto-pilot, radar, etc.*

Yes, dual helms add to the cost of the boat.* That said, we operate our boat almost all the time from the upper helm.* Better vision of course, but mostly because we enjoy the outdoors and we boat in good weather.* From up top, you see the birds, the fish, the dolphins in your wake, etc.

The weather can turn bad and/or we might need/want to move the boat in colder weather, that's where the lower helm comes in.* So far, it's been used twice.* Once when we first bought the boat and moved it to the marina in late February, and once when we were on a trip and it began to rain.

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FF wrote:If on the other hand the weather had turned cool or wet, a lower station definitely shows it's advantages

ASk me about our early April trip from Rockport Maine to CT, if you want an opinion on the virtues of inside steering.

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OK - FF!* Please, do tell me all about your trip from Rockport ME to CT... Im VERY interested, what year was it?*

Its been over four decades since I plied those Atlantic waters.* That was the last time I came up to ME by ocean from NY.* For years, usually with family or others, I used to do that jaunt annually around midsummer ya just gotta luv that while growing up.* At age 14, summer 1966, I took my 1964 13 foot 3 inch*Boston Whaler equipped with full dodger with window, back cover etc, and three 6 gal gas tanks running a 1963 40 hp Johnson from LI NY to Camden ME and back!* Although we separated and I slept in the Whaler, Pop was on the same course with a 38 foot, SD hull, single 180 TC HP Perkins, 1951 custom built wooden raised deck Sport Fisher / Cruiser.* For my safety, we ran a plan to touch base in Boston Harbor while traveling by ocean in each direction, which we accomplished, as well as meeting in Camden!

BTW:**Back In The DAY!!!* Early 70's I lived in Rockport, arrived there by ocean from LI NY in Summer 69.* While I was still very young (18/19 yr drinking laws back then)... I ended up owning 51% of a lease option on an abandoned garment factory (been closed down for 7 years, but the building had great bones) in Camden; and with a 49% local partner we built, owned and operated a Real Rowdy Pub/Restaurant in central Camden, i.e. "The Hunter".* We gutted 210 classic commercial Singer sewing machines, all the work tables and many walls.* Then, with lots of youngster town helpers, we refinished the buildings interior and exterior and then built it all... every table, a kitchen, the huge game room filled with pin ball, foosball, pool table etc, band stand, dance floor, M/F bathrooms, huge walk-in cooler (it held 35 kegs plus food our taps went through over 50 kegs in the best week!), 45 foot gull wing bar with 5 tap Perlick keg cooler system smack in the middle!* Anheuser Bush was our main supplier of beer (at first we had no hard liquor license, but we did serve some wine for the ladies our rowdy customers loved to guzzle beer though).* Back then the laws allowed Bush to provide us with many $Thousands in equipment as long as we kept them as the top product line and boy did they ever throw $$$ into our Pub!* Albert and I (bless his sole, he passed in 1994) opened that Big Bad Baby May 71, seating capacity 210 / total cap 300.* The Hunter was an instant success; Camden, Rockport, Lincolnville and surrounding area had been basically dry before The Hunter came alive! ... On the eve we opened we used our absolute last $110 to start the till. *Although wed advertised well for a couple of weeks in the Camden Herald paper, we were nervous a sht! *At closing time, on the kitchens center work table, (Ill never forget it!) Albert and I counted over $2,700 CASH from our very first night.* The Hunter had been packed!!* News of the new rowdy pub spread fast.* Towns from Bangor up north to well south of Rockland came in to Camden to drink in The Hunter, the NEW Party Bar.* I hired two BIG bouncers.* There were lines well out the door all night; lobstermen, fishermen, wood cutters, construction workers and many others who loved to guzzle beer! *Within a month of our opening, Camden police department actually moved their HQ into the basement of town hall which was adjacent to our Pubs parking lot.* I never did find out if that had been previously planned or it was due to our wils Bar???* Our Pub even had a few ocean fishermen who would come up out of Glouster Mass after a big haul commercial trip and slap a grand on the bar, saying... Let me know when thats gone I got plenty more!* Theyd get fd-up drunk until their next fishing trip.* Then theyd show back up do it all over again!!* Man... That was a great beginning to my biz life, what a learning experience.* Ive been working for myself ever since. **We brought in fledgling*bands from Boston... and that summer was wild!!* Our week days/nights were always profitable and weekend nights consistently brought in thousands in profits.* For 1971 that kind of profit was unheard of in Camden Maine!* We paid off every business-building debt by August of that first summer (of course out debt was pretty low because wed built it ourselves).* Still had payments on the building though. **At end of that great summer, in early September, a local young guy with plenty of inherited loot, whod had his eves on it, asked me if I wanted to sell my majority share of the business.* Albert my orig partner knew him and they got along well.* Now remember, Im a NYr and not from Camden!* We three agreed and I sold my full 51% at great profit.* Bought a Super Sport convertible 1967 Chevy Malibu and cruised the U.S. for a couple years... just to learn what this country has to offer.* Damn glad I did and Ive never looked back... except for the sweet memories!* That pub/restaurant business went through gyrations for years (couple decades).* Many different biz names and many different owners.* Last I noticed, years ago, the building has been cut up / Pizza restaurant / clothing store / and ???.* But the memories... ahhhh the memories... they simply last forever!!!*

Also, while I lived in Rockport/Camden, I Cruised Penobscot Bay.* Pulled lobster traps with fisher buddies...*Partied on the*islands.* Still own property in Camden... so does my son.* And, I have a brother living in Thomaston.

Again, Please, do tell me all about your trip from Rockport ME to CT... Im VERY interested, what year was it?*

Best days To Ya! Art

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-- Edited by Art on Thursday 7th of April 2011 11:48:07 AM

Another advantage of each is that, when single-handing, the lower helm (and starboard door) make it much easier to dock and tie up. The flybridge is quieter underway.