Smoke/carbon monoxide detectors

I admit it, I'm overwhelmed! Trying to get my 36ft. Marine Trader Sundeck Coast Guard compliant.

How many smoke/carbon monoxide detectors do I need and where?

2 staterooms, galley, salon and 2 heads.

I think I should just bring a cot to the marine store and sleep there!

There are no Coast Guard requirements to have smoke/co detectors. ABYC does recommend them if the boat has a gasoline engine or gasoline generator.

A-24.7 REQUIREMENTS - INSTALLATION
24.7.1
A carbon monoxide detection system shall be installed on all boats with an enclosed accommodation compartment(s) and,
24.7.1.1
a gasoline generator set, or
24.7.1.2
an inboard gasoline propulsion engine.

There is nothing wrong with installing them on a diesel boat, but diesel engines produce far less CO. If you go this route, there have been a lot of issues with flee alarms when household units are installed. The Marine units will perform more reliably in the marine environment.

REALLY? Oh now I'm doing the happy dance!

I will install one in each stateroom even though it's a diesel engine!

THANK YOU!

Donna, I see you have mentioned "CG Compliance" a few times.

Might I suggest you ask at the marina who the local CGA guy is that does the free inspections. Have him come and walk through the boat and he will explain everything you need from a CG perspective - is really isn't that much. However he/she will also talk to you about recommended other stuff from a safety standpoint. It's free and probably worth doing by a new boat owner.

Their requirements are basically:

PFDs for the waters you are in. Frankly if you have enough of the Type 1s you will be covered.
Noisemaker (whistles, bell)
Flares.
Nav lights working
You meet pollution rules (no oil etc. in bilge, your toilet discharge through hull is closed) you have the garbage and oil placards posted somewhere)
If a gas engine you have the backflame arrestor in place and blowers.
You also need to have the Rules To Navigation on board.

I think that is pretty much it. I'm sure other will chime in if I have forgotten something!

Donna said:

REALLY? Oh now I'm doing the happy dance!

I will install one in each stateroom even though it's a diesel engine!

THANK YOU!

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I worked for ABYC at the time the standards were written. IF you do install them, get the good marine ones. The will give fewer false alarms. I would also put a smoke/fire detector in the engine room. boat fires are rare, but they often start in the machinery space.

In a large, well ventilated boat such as a 36 foot trawler, the household units seem to do fine.

Awhile back we had a long thread here on alarms with the same results that there are marine grade types and home depot types...that is about owners...not alarms...

And actually the home detectors seem to be good at giving early warning to batteries cooking off. A fringe benefit of them.

I have never had a false alarm in 10 years of living aboard my last 2 boats since 1996. And I worked for a Sea Ray dealership that had marine ones going off all the time. Granted that was 13 years ago...but many, many friends with boats that aren't sailboats or other tunnel like boats have no issues with home improvement box store kinds.

I ordered a set of two that are wireless and set each other off...one in the engine room, one in the saloon....plus one each in each stateroom.

They don't false alarm, go off routinely when cooking bacon like they are supposed to, etc..etc...

Buying marine ones might be a better idea.but no one has proven it to me and many others either.

psneeld said:

In a large, well ventilated boat such as a 36 foot trawler, the household units seem to do fine.

Awhile back we had a long thread here on alarms with the same results that there are marine grade types and home depot types...that is about owners...not alarms...

And actually the home detectors seem to be good at giving early warning to batteries cooking off. A fringe benefit of them.

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I installed 3 Kidde 10 year lithium battery units with ppm of CO display 2 years ago. We've been through a lot of conditions including AC, heat, fog, dry and -5 degrees winter conditions and never a false alarm. However, all 3 indicated a CO level and one went high enough to alarm when I inadvertently started overcharging my house bank. So no false alarms for me and the fringe benefit definitely worked.

Ken

Donna said:

REALLY? Oh now I'm doing the happy dance!

I will install one in each stateroom even though it's a diesel engine!

THANK YOU!

Click to expand...

You might see about installing one nearest wherever your battery banks are, too... if the two stateroom locations don't cover that. Turns out many CO detectors will alarm on battery off-gassing, not a bad thing to know about.

Our factory installation is a CO detector in each stateroom, plus one in the saloon at the other end of the interior. None of those is particularly near where our batteries are located in the engine room, so I dunno if I would expect any off-gassing alarm in our boat or not. OTOH, we have all AGM batteries, less off-gassing anyway...

-Chris

I second the idea of getting a Vessel Safety Check by the Coast Guard Auxiliary. They are free and there is no consequence if you do not pass. The examiner will show you what you need and will make arrangements to return and recheck the boat after you fix what is wrong, if you want to. Just go to cgaux.org and click on get a vessel safety check, fill out your info and someone will contact you to schedule a safety check. If (when) your boat passes the VSC, you will get a decal showing that your boat did pass. In some states, LE won't stop you for a safety check if you have a decal, unless you are doing something illegal...

The USCGAUX decal may or may not ever prevent a regular boarding.

Many USCGAUX people are of high caliber and experience...many are not.

Unless you double check a lot of what you are told by sone...you can be led down a pretty interesting path....take your chances.

The basic USCGAUX checklists are good, but a long way from having a boat most here would take to sea, sight unseen.

I'm just going to start printing out all the threads I have started with all the replies and keep it in a boat file. The info given from all of you is worth its weight in gold!

As always, I thank you all!

if you had a survey the required safety stuff should have been mentioned. CG requirements are important but there is a lot more to a happy boat.

Our surveyor recommended we replace the home smoke detector with marine grade. When the insurance company saw that they required it for coverage purposes. It's a cheap enough item with huge benefits.

Here's what we have aboard:

Salon/Galley:
Smoke detector
Combination CO/Propane detector

Inverter cabinet (in salon above battery ER location):
Smoke detector

Steps leading to head/staterooms:
Smoke detector

Stateroom 1:
Smoke detector

Stateroom 2:
Smoke detector
CO Detector

Engine Room:
Smoke detector

I like the idea of having a pair connected wirelessly so they both sound if one detects like Psn has. I have wondered if I'd be able to hear the ER detector when the engines are running. I'll keep an eye out for a new pair for the ER and Salon/galley.

FlyWright said:

Here's what we have aboard:

Salon/Galley:
Smoke detector
Combination CO/Propane detector

Inverter cabinet (in salon above battery ER location):
Smoke detector

Steps leading to head/staterooms:
Smoke detector

Stateroom 1:
Smoke detector

Stateroom 2:
Smoke detector
CO Detector

Engine Room:
Smoke detector

I like the idea of having a pair connected wirelessly so they both sound if one detects like Psn has. I have wondered if I'd be able to hear the ER detector when the engines are running. I'll keep an eye out for a new pair for the ER and Salon/galley.

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Are you gas or diesel?

Twin diesel with propane stove (seldom used) and a gasoline Honda genset.

The Honda is outside?

menzies said:

The Honda is outside?

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Yup.

Our diesel-propelled, genset-absent boat has a CO monitor/alarm in the sleeping compartment and a propane m/a in the propane-fueled galley.

We just have the one system...

The only thing running when we are sleeping is the diesel genset. That is linked into the blowers so it won't start unless the blowers are on.

Donna
If you are not near a USCG Aux look up USPS.org....sail & power squadrons offer the same vessel safety checks.

USPS also offers many basic & advanced boating courses...everything from badic seamanship ...engine maintenance. ..to celestial navigation and many squadron are doin on the water training courses.

i installed a Kidde Smoke/CO detector about a year and a half ago. One morning I went down to the boat and the alarm was indicating smoke. There was none. I took it off and set it on top of the cabin. It stopped beeping so I put it back where it belongs, on a bulkhead in the salon. Two weeks ago I went down to the boat and the alarm was beeping again, once every three seconds. Again I took it off the wall and put it on top of the cabin. We went out cruising that weekend and at 5:30 in the morning, the detector went off, outside! Could not shut it off! It was pretty funny to me, maybe not so much others anchored nearby. I finally wrapped it in a towel and tossed it in the freezer. I wrote the company and they are sending me a new one.
According to the company, home smoke detectors should not be exposed to temperatures lower than 4 degrees C, or high humidity. They suggest I take it home with me when not in use.

saltcod said:

According to the company, home smoke detectors should not be exposed to temperatures lower than 4 degrees C, or high humidity. They suggest I take it home with me when not in use.

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I guess they don't recommend their products for the humid areas of FL, the Eastern Seaboard, the Midwest, Washington DC metro area or the Gulf States, huh? (insert headscratch here)

Hey...if you need milspec stuff...buy it...

I live on a boat that for the most part is not much different than the homes or condos just 100 feet away.

My boat isn't an offshore racer or fishing battle wagon subjected to dousing spray, vibration and jolts every day or so...

It isn't a submersible or high performance round the world sailor.

It is a go slow, barely vibrate or roll, open and airy liveaboard.

Most of the ABYC and other standards that include all boats of all sizes and uses is just plain BS and I carefully select the difference between what works and doesnt.

For me, household smoke and CO alarms have worked just fine, as advertised with no false alarms and the fringe benefit of early alerts on cooking batteries.

Good for everyone?...probably not...but for ease and price...if you think they will work for you..they probably will.

Just use your head instead of believing everything you read about how marine products are necessary or better...often...they are not.

As a struggling retiree, I agree.

I also use RV components such as my combo propane/CO detector in the salon/galley.

I'd rather have several inexpensive monitors that cover all areas of the vessel and deal with a few false but verifiable alarms than have one or two more expensive detectors without adequate coverage.

I picked up an armful of $5 smoke alarms from Ace Hardware and Walmart that have been very reliable. They're all identical so operation, maintenance and testing is simple. I had one fail (it started chirping every couple of minutes) a few months ago while I was onboard. I had a replacement installed within 5 mins with the same hole patterns for all mounts.

FlyWright said:

...I had one fail (it started chirping every couple of minutes) a few months ago while I was onboard.

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At home, that usually indicates low battery. But at $5 per unit....

BruceK said:

At home, that usually indicates low battery. But at $5 per unit....

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I agree, but that didn't help in this case.

menzies said:

You also need to have the Rules To Navigation on board.

!

Click to expand...

Donna

Didn't catch this earlier...clarification...

Nav Rules req'd only for 39 ft & above.
Worth having for learnung & reference but not req'd. Also electronic copies qualufy if you do need them aboard.

psneeld said:

The USCGAUX decal may or may not ever prevent a regular boarding..

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It doesn't. Two old people and a puppy on a trawler with an apparent target on the stern. Two boardings in two years with up to date inspection decals.


A reason for having a CO alarm on a diesel boat is possible CO from rafted or nearby gasoline powered boats or gasoline generators. If you are one of the folks who carries a portable gasoline generator on your boat and uses it, one or more CO detectors are a must even if the boat is diesel powered.


Regardless of any legal requirements, having smoke and CO detectors installed on your boat is a matter of your and your family's safety.