How Many Anchors?

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I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.

Just my SSO.

The only anchor I know of that's lightweight as in being aluminum has never performed really well unless it's the Fortress brand. The steel anchors have never been threatened by an aluminum revolution. And I secretly wonder how an exact duplicate of a Fortress would perform. The next revolution could indeed be aluminum. But several (at least) have tried.

Fortress had their small anchor (in the Chesapeke test) penetrate better in one situation and penetration is probably universaly better. But weight dosn't guarantee penetration. The Navy anchor is evidence of that being essentially a bulldozer.

But re your response ... Compared to "old" anchors all these "new" anchors are lightweight .... much smaller/lighter than the older anchors they have to some degree replaced. Will the anchors of the future be lighter/smaller yet? Yes and no IMO. Physics will probably prevent the next seemingly revolutionary anchor development but better anchors still will come to pass. But the old dogs will probably be better in certain ways just like the old anchors are now. I see no "new" anchors on ships. But even there advances are being made.

Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoia. Every part of a boat should be a certain size, weight ect. Cleats, the bolts or screws that hold them, window glass, hull thickness ect ect. And there are those loaded barge boats that have many many things that are much too heavy. There is a reasonable weight for everything and going to excess puts other things at risk.

I don't recall anyone saying they bought a new anchor and since it had three times the performance they bought an anchor 25% lighter. They almost always buy a heavier anchor. Why? As to weight and strength of things ideally testing should be done w decending (size/weight) of components until failure is achieved. Then it will be known how big or strong something should be. Having a well ballanced and designed boat w an anchor that's twice as big as needed won't upset the apple cart. But a boat w many many things too heavy will definitely make a boat a dog ... that can't swim.

So I strive to keep weight to sensible limits w everything on my boat. I've done a bit of anchoring w small anchors and not had a performance failure due to anchor size or weight. Should I go to a 40lb anchor because some guy on TF says "bigger is better" .... I think not.
 
Interestingly, Bob Smith who invented the Danforth anchor was a fan of very light rodes. It was his claim that it reduced the shock loads becasue the rode would stretch. He cruised the Atlantic coast for decades in a 40 foot sailboat with a short length of chain (8-10 feet?) and 1/4 inch nylon rode.

1/4" nylon "might" be strong enough, but how quickly would it chafe through if it wraps around a rock.
 
Eric

"Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoi"

I freely admit I'm paranoid about anchoring and always assume the worst conditions when anchoring at night. For the same reason I have the best medical insurance available. I hope I never need the the limits of product but if I need it I'm happy to have it.

Thanks.
 
2...a 7.5KG Trehorn (euro Bruce clone in SS), and a Fortress FX11. Having had a larger Bruce on my last 35 ft Sailboat, I'm a fan. This little trehorn has never failed to set and hold in 35Knot+ winds. Admittedly I have only a 10Ton boat. Works for me in every condition. It would break my heart to have to cut this SS beauty loose though!

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Eric

"Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoi"

I freely admit I'm paranoid about anchoring and always assume the worst conditions when anchoring at night. For the same reason I have the best medical insurance available. I hope I never need the the limits of product but if I need it I'm happy to have it.

Thanks.

Oh wow .... "Freely admit" ....
Could we have a visual of that?



Heron,
That's a Manson Ray isn't it? Your boat is about the same size as mine. I had a 33lb Claw on Willy ..... but never used it. 7.5kg is 16lb .. right? That's what we had on our Albin25 but my smaller Claw on Willy is 22lbs. It's part of the line-up on board now. It's a no name. Nothing on the anchor anyway.

Cotton,
Yup I should probably ditch the 5/8ths line and get 1/2". But that would be a waste and I just put that down (waste) so I'll pass unless I can actually wear out my 5/8ths Brait.
 
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I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.

Just my SSO.


I am not so sure that our arm forces always use heavy anchors.........ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1473618214.914164.jpg
 
Pgitug

Sorry I should have stated navy large ships.
 
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As to chaff on my nylon line rode I receintly removed 50' of 5/8ths Brait line and substituted 50' of 9/16ths three strand. I plan on doing that every year or two in the future.

I don't see that reducing chafe failure much if at all. Brand new line can be chafed through quickly in bad conditions. If you are purely a calm day yachtsman, then maybe so.
 
[QUOTE=Nomad Willy;478813
Fortress had their small anchor (in the Chesapeke test) penetrate better in one situation and penetration is probably universaly better. But weight dosn't guarantee penetration. The Navy anchor is evidence of that being essentially a bulldozer.

Eric,
Maybe that's why there is a Navy anchor on my boat. The engine is the same
one that Caterpillar put in their D-9 bulldozer. :rofl::rofl:

Ted
 

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Cal,
My line was not chaffed significantly. Stained and kinda worn out looking. Wanted a sacrificial end to the rode. The mother rode should last a long time. Been almost 10 years now.
Was your "calm day yachtsman" comment meant to be abrasive? It was.
 
I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.Just my SSO.
That`s a popular view, but I wonder. Anchor mfrs want to sell us as much anchor as they can, I doubt they err on the light side when making recommendations. No doubt some boats of heavier or atypical design or build merit fine tuning the mfr recommendation, but automatically going 1-2 sizes greater without an analysis doesn`t make sense to me.
 
Bruce,
I agree and maybe you've touched on something. Could be that more than a few anchors on trawlers are bigger than need be. And manufacturers may be the reason .. or part of the reason anchors seen are anchors big.
 
That`s a popular view, but I wonder. Anchor mfrs want to sell us as much anchor as they can, I doubt they err on the light side when making recommendations. No doubt some boats of heavier or atypical design or build merit fine tuning the mfr recommendation, but automatically going 1-2 sizes greater without an analysis doesn`t make sense to me.

Bruce, I think your right, anchor manufacturers don't err on the light side. But I don't know how many times I've recommended an anchor using the manufacturers sizing chart only to have the customer think he needs to go a size larger.
 
Bruce, I think your right, anchor manufacturers don't err on the light side. But I don't know how many times I've recommended an anchor using the manufacturers sizing chart only to have the customer think he needs to go a size larger.
Thinking back, when I was buying the current anchor (at the Sydney Boat Show direct from the manufacturer himself) we fell between sizes, and opted for the larger one, which was the advice, and I`m sure, the right choice.
In the subsequent insurance survey, the surveyor described the anchor as "big". Which was fine by me. I can imagine a scenario where the manufacturer adds a margin to be sure,a conservative retailer suggests one size larger, the buyer adds another step up size on top of that.... you get the idea. I`m comfortable taking the manufacturers advice. It has worked, so far.
 
As folks are usually lazy , the simple solution to sizing the bow anchor could be ,,,

1. How does it fit & enter the bow rollers?

2. Will my windlass lift it with some chain and a ball of mud with out letting the white smoke out?

The only downside to a LARGE anchor is cost ,

and as the better brands have decades & decades of use ,BIG ,, used is EZ to find.
 
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Cal,
My line was not chaffed significantly. Stained and kinda worn out looking. Wanted a sacrificial end to the rode. The mother rode should last a long time. Been almost 10 years now.
Was your "calm day yachtsman" comment meant to be abrasive? It was.

No, not at all. Literally perhaps, but not figuratively . If you just anchor under calm conditions, and never are subject to storms, then chafe protection for your rode is not really a concern. But it is if you are in areas prone to thunderstorms and microcells, or tropical weather events.

As for anchor size, the manufacturers publish a range, depending on the windage and weight of the boat, you pick from that range. So with a big fat high profile powerboat, I like to error on the largest size with my boat length within its range. I agree that it has to be within the windlass capacity (which shouldn't be an issue on a well found boat, and within the handling capability of the humans on board for the day when no power assistance is available. Beyond that, I like Steve Dashew's view of anchor sizing "you know your anchor is big enough when people on the dock laugh about how large it is".
 
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Bruce, I think your right, anchor manufacturers don't err on the light side. But I don't know how many times I've recommended an anchor using the manufacturers sizing chart only to have the customer think he needs to go a size larger.

Do anchor manufacturers have a secret formula they use to determine the correct size, or have they done loads of testing they're not talking about? When all the new generation anchor folks came up with their designs, how do you suppose they came up with their sizing charts? Best guess? Or are there some objective algorithms out there we might all be interested in?
 
No, not at all. Literally perhaps, but not figuratively . If you just anchor under calm conditions, and never are subject to storms, then chafe protection for your rode is not really a concern. But it is if you are in areas prone to thunderstorms and microcells, or tropical weather events.

No sharp stuff on the bottom?
 
No, not at all. Literally perhaps, but not figuratively . If you just anchor under calm conditions, and never are subject to storms, then chafe protection for your rode is not really a concern. But it is if you are in areas prone to thunderstorms and microcells, or tropical weather events.

Like to add that the opposite is also true. If you anchor under conditions where the wind and current can turn dead calm and the boat floats without pulling on the rode you have to worry about the loose rode wrapping around debris or coral on the bottom and chafing.

I haven't seen any statistics but I believe this is a more frequent problem then the rode breaking due to excessive pull.
 
Thinking back, when I was buying the current anchor (at the Sydney Boat Show direct from the manufacturer himself) we fell between sizes, and opted for the larger one, which was the advice, and I`m sure, the right choice.
In the subsequent insurance survey, the surveyor described the anchor as "big". Which was fine by me. I can imagine a scenario where the manufacturer adds a margin to be sure,a conservative retailer suggests one size larger, the buyer adds another step up size on top of that.... you get the idea. I`m comfortable taking the manufacturers advice. It has worked, so far.

Bruce

My latest anchor is a tweener on the charts as well. We have a fly bridge enclosure (higher windage) so opted for the heavier chart size model (Vulcan).
 
That`s a popular view, but I wonder. Anchor mfrs want to sell us as much anchor as they can, I doubt they err on the light side when making recommendations. No doubt some boats of heavier or atypical design or build merit fine tuning the mfr recommendation, but automatically going 1-2 sizes greater without an analysis doesn`t make sense to me.

Bruce

I can see how you may believe that statement and it may very well be true. I come from the school that the manufacturer would recommend a lighter weight anchor to make a statement :" look how much my anchor is so much better than my competition, I recommend fifty pounds and the competition uses eighty pounds, mine is more efficient". In any event I like to err on the safest side.
 
Pgitug

Sorry I should have stated navy large ships.


Actually you did.
I just saw that photo and found it interesting the size of Fortress on that vessel.
 
Like to add that the opposite is also true. If you anchor under conditions where the wind and current can turn dead calm and the boat floats without pulling on the rode you have to worry about the loose rode wrapping around debris or coral on the bottom and chafing.



I haven't seen any statistics but I believe this is a more frequent problem then the rode breaking due to excessive pull.


I find it interesting how few boaters are prepared for a fouled anchor.
A friend of mine could not raise his anchor so he called Sea Tow who then called a diver out. His anchor was fouled on an anchor and a pile of 3/8 chain that someone lost. The cost was around $400 and the diver got the lost anchor and chain. Now here's the thing. This happened in Florida and he was anchored in 12 feet of water. As I told him, if he had a fin and snorkel set on board he would have saved five hours, $400 and would have gotten a new to him anchor and chain.
Never go anywhere without a snorkel set.
 
The first anchor I bought for Magic was a 45# Manson Supreme. It held in all conditions. Then we were hit by a squall while anchored with winds high enough to make me nervous. The anchor held just fine but I decided to go bigger after that event. I upgraded to a 60# Manson Supreme.

The 60# Manson did just fine until it began to rust. West Marine agreed to take it back and I replaced it with a 73# Rocna. Will this ever end? :confused: Maybe I need a bigger boat.
 
Bruce

I can see how you may believe that statement and it may very well be true. I come from the school that the manufacturer would recommend a lighter weight anchor to make a statement :" look how much my anchor is so much better than my competition, I recommend fifty pounds and the competition uses eighty pounds, mine is more efficient". In any event I like to err on the safest side.

Very good point and by the same token a boat owner can make the same clain or statement. "Look at my tiny anchor. It's half the size of yours so it's obviously twice as good."

There may be too many stories about dragging on TF. I'm still think'in setting and penetration is more important ... but holding power gets the press.

Also there's the appearence of being wise. Being safe is indeed wise and the bigger is better is joined at the hip with the image of being wise and that rests heavily on the assumption of being experienced. Wise and experienced together is a big draw. Nobody wants to appear foolish.

Howard,
Shoulda just had the Supreme regalvanized. But indeed you did get the problem solved. No loss though as both anchors are about the same.
 
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Eric. I know a couple of guys with tiny anchors proudly displayed on their bow and when asked how does the anchor preform they answer great. Further examination shows they anchor in the bay and seldom overnight and never in a big blow.
 

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