What Do You Pay For Or Do Yourself

BandB said:

We could do many of the critical things if forced to and if it was beyond our knowledge we'd have someone quickly on a cam to tell us what to do. However, we have gotten training in the primary things that can shut you down. The head, we understand and have the manuals but not something we've practiced doing.

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That's certainly a good plan. But what about spare parts? Most of your break downs will require parts. Now I'm sure you have a manufacture's "frequently replaced parts kit" for every piece of equipment on the boat. But there are parts to have that aren't part of the piece of equipment.

As an example:
Most all of your electrical circuit protection are likely circuit breakers. But I haven't seen a boat that didn't have some large fuses. Your house battery bank is protected by one most likely. There are scenarios where that fuse can fail or blow (two different things). Somebody may be able to help you find the problem and resolve it. Without a replacement fuse in spares department, the power still isn't restored. So, do you have atleast one spare fuse for every in service fuse? Do you know where these different fuses are? Do you have a VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) to test the fuse?

I'm certainly not going to able to fix everything that could break on my boat. But there is almost nothing on my boat plumbing, electrical, electronic, and mechanical that I haven't been through. So I know what spares to have.

Second example:
I replaced the 3 air conditioners on my boat during my refit. I'm infinitely familiar with the wiring and the plumbing. So I have a spare seawater pump to replace the one in service should it fail. I have spare hose clamps for those hoses. I have the thread sealant and tools to switch the hose adapters to the new pump. I have a spare circuit breaker for the panel in case one goes bad. My spares are based on my installation experience. As I installed them, I noted which items would be good to have spares of. To me, that is one of the huge side benefits too doing much of my maintenance, knowing where stuff is and what spares to have.

Ted

We basically do everything we can, including dry-dock work, engine repair, and waxing. I'll happily pay a professional once, to learn how to do something I have no experience with. Knowing how to fix stuff is part of ocean voyaging. Some days I do get sick of 'learning' though, but count ourselves fortunate to be in this position.

markpierce said:

My hobbies do not include fixing things.

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Nor mine.

Pay:
Bottom painting and truly major bottom work, coming up this spring. Learned years ago that storage charges eat up so called DIY savings if boat sits too long awaiting my pace especially when weather will not co operate. Some jobs just best done pro.

Do:
waxing include hull.
Varnish
Oil changes
Minor frp works
Hoses, belts ,
Larger version alternator including mod. for external reg., And install reg.
Anchor windlass re ,re. ,
Then new anchor windlass install
Window and frame re.re after being hit
Engine valves and injector .adjust
R. w. Pump re.re
Battery replace and electrical mods.
Gear cooler clean,test, and all new hydraulic hoses.
Minor woodworking
Electronics install, nothing fancy here.
All electrical adds and repairs.
Much welding when I had access to good machines, now gone.
Lots of other stuff plus help some friends from time to time.

To be fair the boat is now my only real hobby and the other stuff is boat oriented.
I was an electrician and millwright (millwrong).

BandB said:

That might be an adjunct question and that is "If money was a complete non-issue (which it never is), what work would you still do on your boat as opposed to paying for it?"

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Ah. The famous "hypothetical." Now we're into "lottery boats" too.

My answer is that I'd only do the planning, management, testing and evaluation afterwards... and ideally some hands-off learning about how to actually do the work during the technician's process.

In the meantime, I couldn't afford to be boating if I didn't do a significant portion of the work myself.

Although there's a certain amount of intellectual satisfaction when I successfully -- eventually -- fix something that I didn't know how to fix when I started. Latter is usually the case. Nothing in my professional career prepared me for doing any of this kind of work... so when intellect successfully triumphs over broken system, I'm usually pleased. Usually even when I'm sore and bleeding afterwards... also not uncommon...

Learning the jargon is usually Job #1. It seems every system from every technical field has decided which words they want to use to describe things. I never "already" know that stuff; always have to translate everything or learn the relevant lexicon...

O C Diver said:

When my boat breaks, I need to be able to fix it. There are a lot of places where getting repairs done or a tow isn't going to be simple.

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And then there's that. Back to that learning thing.

-Chris

The original poster's question has resulted in dozens of answers ranging from "I do everything myself" to "I write big checks to the yard/mechanic".

I think that the more interesting question would be- "what does it take to do more of the work yourself." So, let me try to answer that one.

First it takes a boat owner with an innate mechanical aptitude. Not necessary skill, because that is learned, but a real interest in things mechanical.


If you start with that personal trait then the how to can be learned. I use boatdiesel and I have learned a lot there about how to maintain my diesel.

Another is financial. Some are quite willing to write checks to support their hobby. Others like me are fundamentally frugal and hate to pay someone who will do no diagnostic thinking and will just change parts until he stumbles on the solution.

The other thing necessary is time- wanting to spend the time that you have working on your boat rather than something else. I get a real sense of satisfaction for having solved a problem correctly, particularly if I didn't know how to do it in advance and got some help from boatdiesel to point me in the right direction. So the time spent working on my boat is part of my recreation.

But I do respect the alternate way of doing things- put your boat in the hands of the yard and enjoy the time out on the water, not turning wrenches.

David

I have great need to understand how things work. I always have, since I was a little kid...
I made my living in the repair and maintenance of European autos and in fact boating was simply a way to exercise my passion in a slightly different venue from work.
I literally prowl the boat looking for things that are "wrong" so that I have something to do. I shorten maintenance intervals because the truth is I simply love the work!

On a secondary level, I have a mild distrust of boatyards.
I've hired out a number of jobs that were outside my skill set and more than once I've been left "holding the bag".
I have learned that I am capable of most any boatyard task if I take enough time. That is the big difference, I don't have to earn my living painting a bottom, I can take the time I need to get it right. I can read to my hearts content, speak to the tech departments at will and plan all I want. My work speed would get me fired but the results always get lots of ooh's and aaaah's.

Let me finish with this more positive story.
I have also had extraordinarily good results with repairs made in boat yards! I find that if I am clear about my expectations and I monitor the work (notice I did not say micro-manage or hover...) I can get the results I am looking for.
We had an incredible experience at Wayfarer Marine years ago when we hit a rock while cruising in Maine. That job was so well handled it should be a case study for any boatyard looking to improve their image. I remember explaining to the then manager that I was looking for more than 100%. I explained that although most people would credit a 95% grade as an A, I would be all over them for the final 5%. I even explained that I would become the biggest a$$%0!# they had ever seen if it did not meet my expectations...
The manager looked at me and explained... "Bruce, I've worked for much bigger a$$%0!'s than you, we can do this and we want to do this..."
They blew me away! The repairs exceeded my expectations, they were on time and on budget.
I humbly admit that I'd have never been able to do what they performed.
It was just an incredible experience.
Bruce

There are really two elements. What one can afford and what one enjoys or is skilled at.

While I make no claim to a great mechanical aptitude, I fully believe I could learn to repair nearly everything on my boat. I just don't care to. It's not something I would enjoy, but rather something I would hate doing. I enjoy many things in the world and mechanical work, carpentry, fiberglass work are not among any of those things. I envy those of you who have the skills and enjoy it. I applaud each of you who can do this things and enjoys doing them. We have a couple we're very close to and he is skilled at anything mechanical, electrical, plumbing or carpentry. He loves it too. She is skilled at growing anything, the envy of every neighbor and she loves that. She's also one of the best cooks there is. They amaze me and I respect them so.

Now, on the other hand, I do have one very valuable skill, the ability to select good vendors, in this case boatyards, and manage their work and performance. I haven't had bad experiences like so many of you report. When at home, I use one yard exclusively and have a great relationship with them.

Now, an observation I'll make on the demographics of this forum vs other segments of the boating world. I think in general people here love all aspects of their boats and owning them. Most here do enjoy working on the boat, much like sailboaters, which many were before. Many sailboaters and many here like working on the boats as much as the boating.

Then there's that special group that loves restoring. I've seen similar elsewhere. Those who buy old Chris Craft and perhaps the group that surprises me most is the Post group. They spend years restoring one and even then don't go boating, just get another to restore. They love it and though I can't relate to it, I do see it and am happy for them.

Now other segments do very little work themselves. Living on the lake, I saw very few people who worked on their boats. They didn't have the time or knowledge. Time to do the work is something more common to members of this forum than to them. They owned smaller boats and if something was wrong they took them to the dealer. No different than the way most people do with their cars which the majority of people take their cars to mechanics.

Then at the other end you have the owners of larger boats who typically have no interest in doing their own work and wouldn't have any idea how.

To me it's an interesting subject with no right or wrong, just differences. I read here what many of you do to your boats and your knowledge of those things and I'm very impressed. Just not where my interests lie. I've learned just what I felt I needed to in order to get home safely and to insure things are in good working order. Just no optional or voluntary work for me.

We do everything we can until we're in over our head, then pay for help. This site and others online provide a lot of insight for things I'd probably not attempt without knowledge. Ladders and tight places seem to be my limits.

BandB said:

That might be an adjunct question and that is "If money was a complete non-issue (which it never is), what work would you still do on your boat as opposed to paying for it?"

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If this is like a lottery question...Before I had the dream house built and the dream boat bought, I would purchase or build a warehouse or hanger and fill it with all sorts of toys, broken toys, equipment and tools. A wonderful place full of vintage and non vintage cars, trucks, motorcycles, airplanes, boats, farm equipment, pretty much anything.

Of course, I would then have to hire people to help me work on and play with all of my toys.

Irony.

I look at unnecessary material items in life basically as play toys. Most are not at all actually needed... especially "pleasure" boats! However - I do "need" a boat in my life - LOL!!


That said: Although I am blessed with an engineers mind-bent and love to get my mind n' hands into creating or fixing/restoring/modifying/new-building things... I often keep my toys just in good enough shape as the needs may be for consistent use. I don't keep my toys up with lipstick applied for others to ogle. I do keep my toys up in good condition for my family to safely and enjoyably utilize.


There's an old adage: The cleanest your boat (or car) will most likely ever be is the day you sell her!


PS: In relation to this Thread's premise. I can and likely will do almost every needed general item on a boat that may be required. But - for really big projects like motor rebuild / trany rebuild... etc - I shop that out. Also, don't mind hiring new bottom paint by a yard; although done that too plenty of times.

BandB said:

I find it interesting how many of you enjoy working on your boats. I know many are retired with limited budgets but I know others are working and in professions where they could go work two hours and pay for eight hours of labor on their boat. I know people with the same love of it. We know a couple with a Viking that is in perfect condition and they just look for things to do to it. It's like people with Classic cars and you get concerned some are going to wax their car to death.



That might be an adjunct question and that is "If money was a complete non-issue (which it never is), what work would you still do on your boat as opposed to paying for it?"

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Good observation. I enjoy doing a lot of things. Simple stuff such as changing oil and filters is something that I get satisfaction from.

Other things, If I could afford it, I would gladly never do. I like rinsing the boat off after I get to the dock, I hate cleaning the boat and would love to pay someone to do it monthly. OK, to be honest I could pay to have someone wash the boat monthly, but I could never deal with the guilt. I had it ingrained in me by my depression era father to never pay someone to do what you can do yourself. Any time I do pay someone to do something that I know I could do myself (such polish and wax) It creates a crisis of conscience that takes weeks to recover from.

I/We have done everything ourselves since getting the boat in 2014 except freeing a stuck main engine seacock. I took a propane torch to it with no success. The boatyard guy had a pinpoint torch that allowed him to break it free in seconds. I've done oil and fuel filter changes, installed a complete new electronics suite including radar, serviced generator, installed new raw water impellers, new fuel gauges and senders oil pressure gauges and senders, low pressure alarms, Fridge, complete scrape, sand and repaint bottom. ( I won't do that again, a $1000 well spent) Installed second holding tank and pump for front head, new alternators, macerator toilet pump and I'm sure more...

dhays said:

I hate cleaning the boat and would love to pay someone to do it monthly. OK, to be honest I could pay to have someone wash the boat monthly, but I could never deal with the guilt. I had it ingrained in me by my depression era father to never pay someone to do what you can do yourself. Any time I do pay someone to do something that I know I could do myself (such polish and wax) It creates a crisis of conscience that takes weeks to recover from.

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Even though you could put in those same hours on the job and make many times what you were paying? Or is it that you still prefer washing the boat to working?

dhays said:

Good observation. I enjoy doing a lot of things. Simple stuff such as changing oil and filters is something that I get satisfaction from.

Other things, If I could afford it, I would gladly never do. I like rinsing the boat off after I get to the dock, I hate cleaning the boat and would love to pay someone to do it monthly. OK, to be honest I could pay to have someone wash the boat monthly, but I could never deal with the guilt. I had it ingrained in me by my depression era father to never pay someone to do what you can do yourself. Any time I do pay someone to do something that I know I could do myself (such polish and wax) It creates a crisis of conscience that takes weeks to recover from.

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Catholic?

Ah yes, the depression era father, and mother too. My Dad built 6 houses so he could pay for ours much sooner. When he built a house, he would build all the cabinets, counter tops, installed oak floors, did everything... and I wasn't born until after he did all that. My mom cooked everything we ate. Baked all our bread. There was never a processed food in our house. She grew a garden, canned tomatoes, beets. Saved carrots, potatoes. Amazing people

dhays said:

Any time I do pay someone to do something that I know I could do myself (such polish and wax) It creates a crisis of conscience that takes weeks to recover from.

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That's why I don't pay someone to wax my boat. (OK, that...and because I'm cheap!) Just say "NO!!!" to wax!

Someone needs a hug!

saltcod said:

I've done oil and fuel filter changes, installed a complete new electronics suite including radar, serviced generator, installed new raw water impellers, new fuel gauges and senders oil pressure gauges and senders, low pressure alarms, Fridge, complete scrape, sand and repaint bottom. ( I won't do that again, a $1000 well spent) Installed second holding tank and pump for front head, new alternators, macerator toilet pump and I'm sure more...

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You obviously really know your boat! Goodonya!!

BandB said:

Even though you could put in those same hours on the job and make many times what you were paying? Or is it that you still prefer washing the boat to working?

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As someone who is retiring in 1.5 months, it's definitely the latter for me. Something about the worst day boating exceeding the best day in the office . . .

angus99 said:

As someone who is retiring in 1.5 months...

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Congrats, Angus! You're gonna love it!

Another side question. Those of you who do all the work on your boat yourself, what about on your cars? And on your house systems?

BandB said:

Another side question. Those of you who do all the work on your boat yourself, what about on your cars? And on your house systems?

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Having retired from the auto industry, I have more tools than most. I also drive a 2016 Ram 2500 that will go to the dealer for maintenance! I do still maintain our 1972 Fiat 500 however as it is so cute that I can't resist playing with it! As for our home, I will do small plumbing and electrical jobs but when it comes to building things, we call the contractor who built our house.
We just added a new outdoor fireplace, this one we paid for!

Bruce

Same applies to my house and cars...if I have the time, skills, tools, knowledge and abilities, I'll attampt to tackle the job. At home, that's not normally an issue. On the cars, it's becoming more of a problem with electronic controls and all.

BandB said:

Another side question. Those of you who do all the work on your boat yourself, what about on your cars? And on your house systems?

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Cars, no.

Home, depends... but usually if it's something I've learned how to fix on the boat, the knowledge is transferable, and I have the tools... maybe. In that case, ideally deferrable until winter.

-Chris

Bruce B said:

Having retired from the auto industry, I have more tools than most. I also drive a 2016 Ram 2500 that will go to the dealer for maintenance! I do still maintain our 1972 Fiat 500 however as it is so cute that I can't resist playing with it! As for our home, I will do small plumbing and electrical jobs but when it comes to building things, we call the contractor who built our house.
We just added a new outdoor fireplace, this one we paid for!

Bruce

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Nice looking design and masonry construction O/D FP. If smoke keeps darkening the stone just above firebox... I recommend raising the chimney. Hope the damper was installed correctly into the smoke shelf and throat to the flue - probably was - the masonry work looks very professional. If problem of blackened upper front stone persists you could add a smoke shield at top of FP firebox opening, therefore reducing the height of opening. Of course make sure there is no obstruction just over the damper in the path to smoke chamber (some times during building pieces of material get lodged there that can constrict airflow (get to top of chimney and look down with spot light). Keep damper well opened. Another smoke-stain stopper is to elevate the interior hearth area where bottom of wood rests via metal grates. This helps to get the heat of the actual burning wood and its licking flames closer to point of exit up the chimney; therefore creates a better/faster exhaust draft.

BTW - I've designed and had my masonry/concrete/tile construction company build hundreds of FPs and chimneys... along with many other types of structures - commercial and residential.

Cheers! Anyone for hotdogs and marshmallows?? - Art

Art said:

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Wifey B: That's nice looking. Don't think I can exactly justify one where we live though.

Art said:

Nice looking design and masonry construction O/D FP. If smoke keeps darkening the stone just above firebox... I recommend raising the chimney. Hope the damper was installed correctly into the smoke shelf and throat to the flue - probably was - the masonry work looks very professional. If problem of blackened upper front stone persists you could add a smoke shield at top of FP firebox opening, therefore reducing the height of opening. Of course make sure there is no obstruction just over the damper in the path to smoke chamber (some times during building pieces of material get lodged there that can constrict airflow (get to top of chimney and look down with spot light). Keep damper well opened. Another smoke-stain stopper is to elevate the interior hearth area where bottom of wood rests via metal grates. This helps to get the heat of the actual burning wood and its licking flames closer to point of exit up the chimney; therefore creates a better/faster exhaust draft.

BTW - I've designed and had my masonry/concrete/tile construction company build hundreds of FPs and chimneys... along with many other types of structures - commercial and residential.

Cheers! Anyone for hotdogs and marshmallows?? - Art

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Funny you should note that...
We have already gone up 2' and put a cap on the fireplace.
It has had a very big influence on how well the fire burns as my lay mans observation is that it increased draft tremendously.
As it gets colder I will look at it more critically...
I may ask for advice as we move forward.
By the way, the mason who built this is a very accomplished craftsman. We did build to the dimensions of an architect however...
Most of the black is left over from the shorter stack.
Many thanks for your input!
Bruce

BandB said:

Wifey B: That's nice looking. Don't think I can exactly justify one where we live though.

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Life is simply full of compromises!
Bruce

BandB said:

Another side question. Those of you who do all the work on your boat yourself, what about on your cars? And on your house systems?

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Do some work on my house and some on my truck. Far easier to get service people to come fix those two, as neither of those are going to break between Florida and the Bahamas.

Ted

House similar to boat...
Enjoy building things
Woodworking easy & have tools & a well equipped shop.
Barter some...hauling & tree trimming for canvas work.
I have worked w contractors. ..did a complete gut job kitchen remodel w 5 days w/o sink etc... admiral still wanted to know why it took sooooo long?????

Car another story...farm most out as harder to crawl under...wish I had an oil xchg sysyem under the hood.

BandB said:

Another side question. Those of you who do all the work on your boat yourself, what about on your cars? And on your house systems?

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I do everything on the house but roofing and floor refinishing. I do routine maintenance on the vehicles, unless it's one I'm restoring.