She has a pretty behind...(considering enclosed smimplatform)

I have the classic taiwanese trawler stern with teak swim platform.** It is a tri-cabin which means I have no real fishing deck.* A hull extension (where I add a small fishing cockpit) would be a major project; however, adding an over-sized "enclosed" swimplatform made from fiberglass would be manageable.** I have seen photos of the 45' bayliners getting these to improve bouyancy.* My objective isn't bouyancy its getting some extra deck space.*** I could either build a "box" and bolt it on, or glass the thing in place.** Then, put railing around it to make it safe.* It would facilitate boating the 100lb flatfish and pulling the shrimp pots.*

Ideas anyone?* anyone have some good tips/photos of such a project?** My plan is to leave the running gear in place and only come back about 3' or so, keep some of it up out of the water so I don't make the boat more difficult to turn.* ideas?** Pic of her behind:

I'd look for a bigger boat with the desired characteristics and wouldn't mess around making substantial changes to an existing boat.

I have a 40 Albin and it had the typical narrow teak swim platform. With the angle of the transom it was difficult to stand on it without holding on to the boat.

I added 7 inches (to the transom side of the patform) by using teak from another platform I bought. Makes the platform usable.

I'm not sure I would want to add much more than that. The outer edges come pretty close to being under at times when underway.

I think the addition you are proposing will probably depreciate the boat.* If it does not work out you will have thrown away time and $$$.* If having a cockpit is more important than an aft cabin you may want to get a sedan style boat. Selling and buying is easier said than done but if you give it a shot at a fair price in the Spring market you may get lucky.

My 2 cents--* JohnP

JohnP wrote:
I think the addition you are proposing will probably depreciate the boat.

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Couldn't agree more! If fishing is a big part of your cuising, get a boat with a cockpit.

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-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 08:30:34 AM

Thanks for opinions. I am reluctant to buy another USED trawler for the sole purpose of getting a smidge more deck because I am tired of fixing deficiencies and any boat would be a LONG way from were mine is now. To be blunt, most used taiwanese trawlers in the sub$150k price range are junk. They have original teak decks that leak, original windows that leak. Many have interior water damage. Over the course of ownership I have brought this boat up to a much higher standards with FRP decks, new glass and new bedding for all windows, lots of new cabinetry, added a gen-set. all new elec panels. it goes on and on. Plus, I know every sq in of my boat which is worth a lot...

To the idea of depreciation, teak, while beautiful, is a PITA to maintain and especially down at the swim-step area. I have 200' of teak railing for one to admire already. I put 40-50 hours into refurbishing my teak platform and she is a beauty but I cringe when a dink pulls up to it for fear it will get scratched. Another reason to consider going FRP and at that point, why not make it more useful by closing it in. Frankly, other trawler owners in my area would be jealous at such a sensible upgrade imho.

Anyone have pics? or suggestions on design? Or ideas on how it might affect steering?

I have been considering extending the swim step on my Puget Trawler (Taiwan trawler) for the same reasons. When I was clearing customs in Prince Rupert I noticed that quite a few boats had an aluminum fishing platform added aft of the transom. The platform itself was grated aluminum, with a railing.

If you get to Rupert, check out the boats in the PR Rowing and Yacht Club. There must be a local aluminum welder that makes these platforms. If you have one made and remove and store the original teak swim step, the step could be reinstalled later if you have to sell the boat.

I have seen a couple of boat that have added, but mostly to be able to carry a heaver dink so the boat will ride/sit level. **If done correctly should not devalue the boat. Also some boats have is a drop down over the swim platform like a tail gate.* **********
*
What you might want to do is to just extend out the existing swim deck with some additional teak slates.* I have also looked at making our swim deck a little wider by just pulling the swim platform out as it right up against the hull, so could pull it out 6 by modifying/extending the brackets.* *If more would need some teak wood slates to fill in the space.* I would not go solid as the new bigger swim platform might take a lot of pressure dragging in the water.
*
You might want to buy a smaller boat to tow for fishing and running around in.** Several time we have towed out 19 ft run about to explore/fish crab with.* We to not take the 58 ft out much but we do use the 19 ft run about and/or 12 Livingston almost every day in the summer.* ***********

AKdadio wrote:
Thanks for opinions. I am reluctant to buy another USED trawler for the sole purpose of getting a smidge more deck because I am tired of fixing deficiencies and any boat would be a LONG way from were mine is now. To be blunt, most used taiwanese trawlers in the sub$150k price range are junk. They have original teak decks that leak, original windows that leak. Many have interior water damage. Over the course of ownership I have brought this boat up to a much higher standards with FRP decks, new glass and new bedding for all windows, lots of new cabinetry, added a gen-set. all new elec panels. it goes on and on. Plus, I know every sq in of my boat which is worth a lot...

To the idea of depreciation, teak, while beautiful, is a PITA to maintain and especially down at the swim-step area. I have 200' of teak railing for one to admire already. I put 40-50 hours into refurbishing my teak platform and she is a beauty but I cringe when a dink pulls up to it for fear it will get scratched. Another reason to consider going FRP and at that point, why not make it more useful by closing it in. Frankly, other trawler owners in my area would be jealous at such a sensible upgrade imho.

Anyone have pics? or suggestions on design? Or ideas on how it might affect steering?

Click to expand...

*Were it me, I think I would look real hard at extending the hull to accomplish your goal. It would not be a lot more work, and i don't think your maneuverability would be diminished. The advantage would be that you could use the space between the hull and deck of the space as a fish hold. I know a couple guys that did just that, and by drilling a few holes under the waterline, this new space fills with water when sitting, and then empties under way. They use it to keep their crab catch alive until they are ready to harvest them. Or the space could be insulated for a built-in ice chest. Even just general storage would make it worth the little extra expense. Good luck on the project.

*

I extended my teak platform already...by about 8". It looks great, can't find photo at the moment. I cut the sides back a little, then added about a 4" solid perimeter of white oak around the whole thing so I ended up with a two-tone wood platform, original teak slats in the middle and ended up with 8" extra room. Larry H, I would be curious how the aluminum setup looked with a fiberglass hull.

The idea of enclosing the platform will add structural integrity so I'm not relying on the existing brackets, plus I would probably utilize the space as a fish-hold. Pulling a runabout is a great idea and one we have considered for "exploring".

Carey, funny we were writing at the same time. We are on the same page....what you describe is essentially what I mean by "enclosed swim platform". On the other hand, a full-blown hull stretch would be a BIG project.

AKdadio wrote:The idea of enclosing the platform will add structural integrity so I'm not relying on the existing brackets ...*

Click to expand...

*If the proposed extension follows the existing hull form with a guesstimated beam of 12 feet and a draft of 1 foot and the boat is in seas that immerse the extension*1 foot at a rate of 10 feet per second as it might on a reasonably calm day, the attachment*will see a shear load of*around 5 tons.

If the seas pick up to where the pitching immerses the extension at twice the rate and another foot in depth you can expect it to be loaded over 17 tons.

something to think about when considering how it will be attached and how much "girder strength" the boat has now.

*

RickB wrote:AKdadio wrote:The idea of enclosing the platform will add structural integrity so I'm not relying on the existing brackets ...*

Click to expand...

*If the proposed extension follows the existing hull form with a guesstimated beam of 12 feet and a draft of 1 foot and the boat is in seas that immerse the extension*1 foot at a rate of 10 feet per second as it might on a reasonably calm day, the attachment*will see a shear load of*around 5 tons.

If the seas pick up to where the pitching immerses the extension at twice the rate and another foot in depth you can expect it to be loaded over 17 tons.

something to think about when considering how it will be attached and how much "girder strength" the boat has now.

*

*Further to Rick's comment I'd also be concerned about the impact of a heavy following wave on that solid scoop that you would now have at the stern; a teak platform would at least be somewhat porous.

*

AKdadio,** A lot of members are very positive about your proposed project. You might want to consult some brokers about their opinion about selling boats with major owner designed changes.

It sounds like your boat is in great shape, and I still believe it would be a turn off to some potential buyers.* If they liked it, they would probably figure out a boat originally designed with a cockpit would be what they needed.

It would be like if I tore out my cockpit and put in an aft cabin.* It could be a local thing, but*on the East Coast, boat yards are littered with owner modified abandoned boats.

JohnP

JohnP wrote:
AKdadio,** A lot of members are very positive about your proposed project. You might want to consult some brokers about their opinion about selling boats with major owner designed changes.

It sounds like your boat is in great shape, and I still believe it would be a turn off to some potential buyers.* If they liked it, they would probably figure out a boat originally designed with a cockpit would be what they needed.

It would be like if I tore out my cockpit and put in an aft cabin.* It could be a local thing, but*on the East Coast, boat yards are littered with owner modified abandoned boats.

JohnP

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*

I hear what your saying.* On another note, economic market forces have had the biggest impact on resale value....more than if I painted the hull PINK. ** One thing on my side, I'm in Alaska (and not SE AK) so there aren't many boats to chose from when buying.* it 2000+ miles to start finding "selection".

AKdadio wrote:
*

I hear what your saying.* On another note, economic market forces have had the biggest impact on resale value....more than if I painted the hull PINK. ** One thing on my side, I'm in Alaska (and not SE AK) so there aren't many boats to chose from when buying.* it 2000+ miles to start finding "selection".

Click to expand...

********* Akdadio,* You seem to like your boat and only want to make it better for you.* I do believe once you decide on your plan you will do it right.* The way the economy is,*owning a boat for the long run is probably the best move.

If I wanted an aft cabin a full camper rear deck enclosure could work for me.

So I think I get it,* use it, modify it, whatever works.** JohnP

*

JohnP wrote:AKdadio wrote:
*

I hear what your saying.* On another note, economic market forces have had the biggest impact on resale value....more than if I painted the hull PINK. ** One thing on my side, I'm in Alaska (and not SE AK) so there aren't many boats to chose from when buying.* it 2000+ miles to start finding "selection".

Click to expand...

********* Akdadio,* You seem to like your boat and only want to make it better for you.* I do believe once you decide on your plan you will do it right.* The way the economy is,*owning a boat for the long run is probably the best move.

If I wanted an aft cabin a full camper rear deck enclosure could work for me.

So I think I get it,* use it, modify it, whatever works.** JohnP

*

JohnP,* I'm not ready to upgrade yet.* my "next boat" is beyond my current budget and slip size.* -AKd


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-- Edited by AKdadio on Thursday 31st of March 2011 01:24:04 PM

AKdadio,

The aluminum fishing platforms looked, well, 'industrial'! Welded aluminum tubes framing the platform and making railings, with an aluminum grating deck.

Fish rod holders on the rail and downriggers on the corners. They did look like a safe place to pull fish and to keep the fish blood and guts out of the boat!

Prince Rupert is an industrial town with maybe 20 actual 'Yachts', the rest of the boats are for fishing, either commercial or pleasure. BC has a lot of aluminum fabrication and they make aluminum in nearby Kitamat.

Sounds like you might be in Whittier or Homer. I would build what works now and worry about resale later. In your area, potential buyers might want a good fishing platform.

I use my trawler to go cruising in northern BC and SE Alaska, and since it will never look like a '$$$ Yacht', I find that the more it looks like a commercial fish boat, the higher the acceptance level is by locals. For equipment, I look to what works for the commercial boats. I do maintain the rails, doors and window frames as varnished teak. This year, I even paid the boat yard to clean the hull, removing the 'Alaska beard'!

Larry H

RickB wrote:AKdadio wrote:The idea of enclosing the platform will add structural integrity so I'm not relying on the existing brackets ...*

Click to expand...

*If the proposed extension follows the existing hull form with a guesstimated beam of 12 feet and a draft of 1 foot and the boat is in seas that immerse the extension*1 foot at a rate of 10 feet per second as it might on a reasonably calm day, the attachment*will see a shear load of*around 5 tons.

If the seas pick up to where the pitching immerses the extension at twice the rate and another foot in depth you can expect it to be loaded over 17 tons.

something to think about when considering how it will be attached and how much "girder strength" the boat has now.
*

*

*

To clairfy, what I have in mind is something like the pic below.... perhaps adding railing.* Obviously no trim-tabs.** The warning above is frightening.* I have seen several of these extensions added to boats and I doubt any real engineering was involved.** The numbers mentioned above seem quite large, but I am unfamiliar with a "failure" in my area.* Obvioulsy not wanting to be the first either.**

I had contemplated bringing the bottom up at an angle and avoid the flat stern thinking it might improve effeciency and following seas?? (??).** This is all still cocktail napkin thinking.* A naval architect might talk me out of the whole thing.

*

*


-- Edited by AKdadio on Thursday 31st of March 2011 05:16:00 PM

AKdadio wrote:
Carey, funny we were writing at the same time. We are on the same page....what you describe is essentially what I mean by "enclosed swim platform". On the other hand, a full-blown hull stretch would be a BIG project.

Click to expand...

*I beg to differ, but what you show in the photo on your most recent post (dated 2 hrs, 22 mins. ago), IS A HULL EXTENSION. Yes, it would necessitate a proper attachment, which should be determined by a naval architect, but in the long run would assure a finished product which would not have a diminished value, and would not break under stresses provided by the sea, but would actually provide an increased value. If what you truly want and are willing to pay for is an enclosed swim step, then that's a horse of a different color.

*


-- Edited by Carey on Thursday 31st of March 2011 07:47:10 PM

Carey wrote:I beg to differ, but what you show in the photo on your most recent post (dated 2 hrs, 22 mins. ago), IS A HULL EXTENSION....

Click to expand...

*_________________________________________________

I attached the photo so folks would understand what "I meant" by enclosed swim-platform.**** Enclosed meaning instead of a platform it becomes a lazarette or fish-hold.* The two most recent projects I've seen had the "box" about an inch narrower on each side than the beam at the stern, possibly to make it easier to feather in the addition to the original paint or gel-coat.** The photo i show is something I grabbed off the internet but it is the same idea.** Some yards report that they lay-up the addition to the hull, others build a stand-alone box and glue/bolt it on.

On the other hand, when I think of a "Hull extension or hull stretch" I think of maintaining the gunnel / cap-rail height along the length of the addition (but, who knows what others are thinking).* I am not wanting to take on a project of that magnitude. **

If there is a standardized name for what I show in the photo I am unaware but willing to be enlightened.*

*

AKdadio wrote:Carey wrote:I beg to differ, but what you show in the photo on your most recent post (dated 2 hrs, 22 mins. ago), IS A HULL EXTENSION....

Click to expand...

*_________________________________________________

I attached the photo so folks would understand what "I meant" by enclosed swim-platform.**** Enclosed meaning instead of a platform it becomes a lazarette or fish-hold.* The two most recent projects I've seen had the "box" about an inch narrower on each side than the beam at the stern, possibly to make it easier to feather in the addition to the original paint or gel-coat.** The photo i show is something I grabbed off the internet but it is the same idea.** Some yards report that they lay-up the addition to the hull, others build a stand-alone box and glue/bolt it on.

On the other hand, when I think of a "Hull extension or hull stretch" I think of maintaining the gunnel / cap-rail height along the length of the addition (but, who knows what others are thinking).* I am not wanting to take on a project of that magnitude. **

If there is a standardized name for what I show in the photo I am unaware but willing to be enlightened.*

*

** * * What you show in the photo extends the hull surface, and therefore will be supporting all the stresses of a hull, so therefore would be referred to as a hull extension. Just because you don't attach bulwarks above this hull extension doesn't change the fact that it bears all the stresses of a hull, or change the name. And I have to argue that adding bulwarks to this appendage would not make it a dramatically more complicated or expensive project, and would in fact lend a lot of support to the stresses it would endure.

To me, what you refer to as an enclosed swim platform would be a swim platform with bulwarks above.*


-- Edited by Carey on Thursday 31st of March 2011 08:28:55 PM

Carey, great explanation. The bulwarks do add structural integrity- that is easy to see. I'm thinking it would require a great deal of skill to have the finish look factory on the outside and on the inside of the cockpit...plus matching the cap-rail. my thoughts.

Mike wrote:
It doesn't take a great deal of skill to match the finish. It's just hard and slow work.

Pay attention to the most important part of RickBs post -

Girder strength.

Think about how you will maintain that aft of your existing transom.



Mike
Merritt Island, Fl.

Click to expand...

That's it. Mike and RickB are right on the money. I guess my choice would be to cut through the existing transom, allowing a 4' overlap of new and existing stringers, both bolted and glassed. And, with the addition of a heavy bulwark on the hull sides as well as new transom, would make a good structure. All of that could work well if engineered to assure the "hull extensions" ability to handle the stresses.*

*

Akdadio,* You could take the easy way out and do the following.

1) Remove existing swimplatform and save for reattachment at sale time.

2) Make a large hinged swimplatform that folds up against the transom and drops like a pickup tailgate when needed.

3) Or put a hinged section on top of your original platform, that flops down doubling the size of the platform and sits on slide outs like a dropleaf table.

These suggestions elminate*problems in rough seas, and are less drastic to install.

JohnP

JohnP wrote:
Akdadio,* You could take the easy way out and do the following.

1) Remove existing swimplatform and save for reattachment at sale time.

2) Make a large hinged swimplatform that folds up against the transom and drops like a pickup tailgate when needed.

3) Or put a hinged section on top of your original platform, that flops down doubling the size of the platform and sits on slide outs like a dropleaf table.

These suggestions elminate*problems in rough seas, and are less drastic to install.

JohnP

Click to expand...

*Those are actually good ideas IMHO.*I have seen regular sized hinged platforms on boats around here*(LI Sound). Might be a nice compromize in this case.*

*

AK, do you use down riggers?* What kind of fishing do you do?* We mostly use down riggers and 95% of the time is dragging around dead herring/lure. So every once in a while we will look to see if we have a fish? *So why do you need a bigger stern deck and or swim deck?
*
When we go fishing/crabbing, we use the 19 ft run about with the 140 hp Merc that does about 35+ MPH which has down driggers.* Get out there, do some fishing and get back in 4 hours max.* *Shoot if we took the big old trawler it would take all day. When we do take the big old trawler we still tow the run about and carry the dinks/kayaks.* The Eagle is sort of the mother ship to carry tow all the water toys and people.*
*
For the cost of new/bigger swim deck you could buy a nice dink.* Just a thought?*******

Phil/Fill, the Q of why do I need a bigger deck is the one I always ask myself. Answer: I don't........90% of the time.

We don't fish much and when we do we work it out (Y to downriggers for salmon). Pulling in shrimp pots is a little more painful with limited deck space. In the end, a bigger dink might be the answer when on longer trips. A bigger dink to be seaworthy and able to pull pots means it's too big to be on deck so it would be towed...I would have to deal with it once in port, the penalty I suppose.

Extending the hull is not hard ,(just a bunch of work) but why?

What you seem to desire is a simple work area , a longer deck area or pit to work , but not a longer boat.

So build a bolt on , welded aluminum would not drag her down by the stern , and hip boots.could keep your tootsies dry.

No worries about a visiting B. Whaler chewing it up at cocktail time. A swinging stern gate would be welcoming.

No hydromatic questions , no boarding wave problem

At sales time a dozen transom bolt holes with teak plugs would not be that hard to sell.

Carey wrote:Mike wrote:
It doesn't take a great deal of skill to match the finish. It's just hard and slow work.

Pay attention to the most important part of RickBs post -

Girder strength.

Think about how you will maintain that aft of your existing transom.



Mike
Merritt Island, Fl.

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*

*

*Yes.... slow work, I have hundreds of hours on a sander doing glass work,* without a mold it's a big job to look factory....

Girder Strength... were the taiwanes trawlers engineered in the first place?* Ha ha.