Bolt Cutters

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tinped said:
i change my vote,neither,let her go.
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I think cutting a chain is a last resort, say in the case of a jammed windlass. Otherwise letting out the chain and cutting the leader line makes more sense, ideally after attaching some sort of float.
 
twistedtree said:
I think cutting a chain is a last resort, say in the case of a jammed windlass. Otherwise letting out the chain and cutting the leader line makes more sense, ideally after attaching some sort of float.
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And the fast, no tools required snap shackle alternative is less preferable why?
This compunction to leave floating line in the water is odd to me...
 
They do make hydraulic wire cutters. You could see if they work on chain. I used them years ago when discharging pipe from a hold of a ship.
 
Interesting discussion. With so many of the trawler owners being former sailors you would think that it would be mentioned that a fast access mounted bolt cutter is frequently seen on sailboats. The ability to quickly cut the standing rigging is a safety item on a sailboat and the bolt cutter is mounted where it can be gotten quickly.

Our bolt cutter is stored at the bottom of the four step ladder into the engine room and a serrated line cutting knife is mounted inside the pilot house along side of the port door.

Thankfully I have never needed either the bolt cutter or the knife in an emergency, but in an emergency searching for one or the other would not be beneficial.
 
FlyWright said:
Tinped,

You have such great points but they're tough to read. I just want to buy you an operating space bar that works behind every comma and period. My old eyes cannot easily read through the continuous block of characters.

And I mean that in the nicest way! :blush:
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Thanks , obviously spell check is my best friend, but its an addon here , as I.E. version doesn't work. I never took typing classes when I was young, it was frowned upon with guys in those days, so I am a typical one finger, self taught kind of person . And working in the trades gives you big cheesy fingers, which compounds the issue. No excuses , will try and improve.:facepalm:
 
I have an old pair of 36 inch or so bolt cutters that I do keep on board. They are on the flying bridge, so not handy to the windlass, but can be grabbed in 30 seconds or less.

For 5/16 chain it's a struggle, but will cut it quick enough.

But...with all the talk of not splicing chain....not sure I would ever cut my chain unless it jammed somehow. Not sure how likely that is, and if the windlass jammed, I can just pry my chain up off the windlass probably easier than anything.

The times I see this happening are like anchoring in general. Either I have all the time in thevworld, so to speak, or it is a right now, panic situation.

The panic time, let her run, and either the light poly line will snap from the conditions anyway, or I cut it. It is the thickness of pot warp but really crappy poly line so not much threat to anyone's boat, maybe their dingy. Plus me or someone else is going to go back for it pretty quick, as in as soon as the storm abated or first ligtht. So the time it is sitting isn't a huge threat to save navigation anyway, especially on the edge of some anchorage.

The calm times, I have the option of releasing it any way, and marking it any way I see fit at the time. Large orange bouy, no line or buy at all as I have a great location fixed, etc...etc...

So with the exception of needing bolt cutters to cut my own or someone else's padlock, I am not so sure I really need them onboard after all.
 
psneeld said:
I have an old pair of 36 inch or so bolt cutters that I do keep on board. They are on the flying bridge, so not handy to the windlass, but can be grabbed in 30 seconds or less.

For 5/16 chain it's a struggle, but will cut it quick enough.

But...with all the talk of not splicing chain....not sure I would ever cut my chain unless it jammed somehow. Not sure how likely that is, and if the windlass jammed, I can just pry my chain up off the windlass probably easier than anything.

The times I see this happening are like anchoring in general. Either I have all the time in thevworld, so to speak, or it is a right now, panic situation.

The panic time, let her run, and either the light poly line will snap from the conditions anyway, or I cut it. It is the thickness of pot warp but really crappy poly line so not much threat to anyone's boat, maybe their dingy. Plus me or someone else is going to go back for it pretty quick, as in as soon as the storm abated or first ligtht. So the time it is sitting isn't a huge threat to save navigation anyway, especially on the edge of some anchorage.

The calm times, I have the option of releasing it any way, and marking it any way I see fit at the time. Large orange bouy, no line or buy at all as I have a great location fixed, etc...etc...

So with the exception of needing bolt cutters to cut my own or someone else's padlock, I am not so sure I really need them onboard after all.
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Really good points. I guess the point of a hazard to navigation(possibly)never occurred to me as part of this discussion, so I guess a panpan to uscg might be in order. Psneeld, please respond, as you are the pro in this situation, good idea, or no. Tried to use spacebar, better?
 
Where I boat between FL and NJ.....there are so many floats ot there, it would almost be comical to hear a pan pan about a float or few feet of floating line (which would depend on the diameter you used...that's why I chose mine to be similar or weaker than pot line).

Sure you could call it in...but again I have to wonder....how long is anyone here going to abandon their main anchor?

Unless I have an emergency where I am incapacitated, someone most likely me is headed back to try and retrieve it. If I can't get back right away, I will pay someone to go back and retrieve it or put a better marking on it, or get a good lat/long and cut the floating line off.
 
I used a 36" bolt cutter maintaining a all chain (3/8") mooring and as a safety item when we sailed. Make a pair of 36" handle extensions, I used steel pipe and you can cut the chain much easier. They stow nicely along with the bolt cutter.
Leverage it's a good thing !
 
I only had to cut an anchor rode one time. It was not my boat I was crewing with the new owner on a delivery from NC to Baltimore.
we had an impending tropical storm coming and he insisted on anchoring in a protected cove that was know to be full of stumps. (I think it was in the Alligator River?).
Yes we caught one with his Danforth.
No way we could get it out, we tried for about 20 minutes before giving up.
The only recourse was to cut and thankfully it was line because he did not have bolt cutters. Not sure he even had a hacksaw.
We moved to another area, not so well protected but more than adequate.
 
psneeld said:
Where I boat between FL and NJ.....there are so many floats ot there, it would almost be comical to hear a pan pan about a float or few feet of floating line (which would depend on the diameter you used...that's why I chose mine to be similar or weaker than pot line).

Sure you could call it in...but again I have to wonder....how long is anyone here going to abandon their main anchor?

Unless I have an emergency where I am incapacitated, someone most likely me is headed back to try and retrieve it. If I can't get back right away, I will pay someone to go back and retrieve it or put a better marking on it, or get a good lat/long and cut the floating line off.
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I guess I should have been looking at this scenario more like crab pots. Its kinda of a grey area as to should I notify, must I notify, or is as you put, maybe I am overthinking, and others would find this annoying ,or comical. Have very little experience notifying the uscg, figure there are times you might be doing it on a daily basis. Thanks for your viewpoint.
 
I once had to find an alternate padlock key, as the key given to me didn't work. This was in a very small town, 100 Mile House, BC. Not having many options, there was a very small Auto Parts store, where I was able to buy the bolt cutter that I now carry in the bottom drawer of my red tool chest, under my helm seat. Haven't had to use it in desperation yet, but it cut through the hardened steel of a padlock with ease, so I am happy to carry it for emergency purposes.

I haven't looked at Harbour Freight, but I wouldn't reject their brand without a thorough examination of the quality and a few test cuts. HF stuff is usually cheaper than elsewhere, often due to poor quality, but sometimes just due to their greater buying power.

As for the thread creep to giving advice on what to do, I have only heard of one guy (boating in the waters of the South Coast of BC) having to let his anchor go. I don't know how he let it go, as that wasn't part of the story, but I do know that he was able to give a diver the lat and long to sufficient accuracy that he had his anchor and rode returned to him on a pallet within a week.
 
caltexflanc said:
And the fast, no tools required snap shackle alternative is less preferable why?
This compunction to leave floating line in the water is odd to me...
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I think a snap shackle is a great idea if you can get one large enough to match the working load of your chain. And under load they can still be hard to release, so a lever of some sort may be required - I don't know.

As for lines, I think they come into play in two different ways. First is to link the end of the chain to the secure point in the chain locker. If that's line, it takes some of the shock if you chain runs out uncontrolled all the way to the end, plus it's an easy way to release the chain in an emergency by cutting the line.

The other application of a line it to increase your chances of later recovery of the anchor and chain, rather than just abandoning it on the bottom. A yellow floating line, even if it doesn't reach the surface, will make it much easier to find the anchor when diving. And if the line does reach the surface, it's all the easier. Attaching a fender or other float works too, but in either case you wouldn't want to leave a floating hazard for any longer than absolutely necessary.
 
I think what I take out of this post is it is best to be prepared as Twistedtree points out,prior to an "s" condition, so that if it occurs, there is a procedure in place, rather than having to improvise on a heaving deck, with bolt cutters, or grinders, most likely in a panic situation. While not everyone can think of all possible scenarios on a boat, I think the collective knowledge this site provides me with is invaluable.
 
Not sure if you've ever tried to cut 3/8" BBB chain with a bolt cutter before, but it's pretty difficult with a good set of cutters on level ground. I have a D-clevis finger tight and a pelican hook (like shown in picture).

It allows anyone to pull a short lanyard and release the bitter end. I also carry a float on 100' of poly line that would allow recovery later.

Pelican%20Hook%200.625in.jpg
 
While envisioning different scenarios where you might be releasing your anchor chain, I think there are two distinct situations; under tension, and not under tension.

If you still have windlass or other control over your anchor, you can relieve tension on the chain, undo shackles, release pelican hooks, or pull snap shackles. That's one case.

The other case is where you have lost windlass or other control and the chain is under full tension. Worst case you are in deep water with your anchor and all your chain hanging straight down. It can be 100s, if not 1000s of pounds of tension on the chain. In this case I would worry about releasing a pelican hook or a snap hook for fear of injury when the thing lets go. It might not even be possible to release it under so much tension. Unscrewing a shackle would be out of the question. Cutting a short segment of rope strikes me as the safest. Cutting the chain with bolt cutters or a cut off wheel seems next safest.

I've never cut anything with bolt cutters, so don't know how hard it is as the chain size gets bigger. From a previous post it sounds like 3/8 is probably the limit, and even that can be pretty hard. I've got nothing against bolt cutters, but I think as you get into bigger chain, they really aren't an option, and at some point (unlikely for any of us) you are looking at a cutting torch as your only tool. BTW, I've heard of using a Sawsall as another option.
 
twistedtree said:
While envisioning different scenarios where you might be releasing your anchor chain, I think there are two distinct situations; under tension, and not under tension.

If you still have windlass or other control over your anchor, you can relieve tension on the chain, undo shackles, release pelican hooks, or pull snap shackles. That's one case.

The other case is where you have lost windlass or other control and the chain is under full tension. Worst case you are in deep water with your anchor and all your chain hanging straight down. It can be 100s, if not 1000s of pounds of tension on the chain. In this case I would worry about releasing a pelican hook or a snap hook for fear of injury when the thing lets go. It might not even be possible to release it under so much tension. Unscrewing a shackle would be out of the question. Cutting a short segment of rope strikes me as the safest. Cutting the chain with bolt cutters or a cut off wheel seems next safest.

I've never cut anything with bolt cutters, so don't know how hard it is as the chain size gets bigger. From a previous post it sounds like 3/8 is probably the limit, and even that can be pretty hard. I've got nothing against bolt cutters, but I think as you get into bigger chain, they really aren't an option, and at some point (unlikely for any of us) you are looking at a cutting torch as your only tool. BTW, I've heard of using a Sawsall as another option.
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Snap shackles are designed specifically to be released under tension. That' teir woe purpose, be it in sailing rig or towing bridles or tender lift rigging. If you have ever cut a poly line under tension you would see is is absolutely less safe than popping a lanyard. One would also hope that a snubber has been deployed already in the effort to break out the anchor.

Here again we have an emergency contingency where people speculate on whether something would work or not, or simply hope that their solution might work should the need arise, rather than test and practice the rig and procedure in question pre-need.
 
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Dinghy thieves in the Eastern Caribbean have been using bolt cutters to cut through 3/8" BB, 3/8" stainless and even 1/2" (actually 12mm) chain. This is done at night with the owners sleeping on board at anchor.

Perhaps they are younger.
 
"This is done at night with the owners sleeping on board at anchor."

That's why davits were invented.

Climbing on board to lower a dink, while waiting for the sound of a 10Ga to be chambered takes great courage.
 
FF said:
"This is done at night with the owners sleeping on board at anchor."

That's why davits were invented.
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Absolutely. Last February as the sun was going down one evening I counted over 30 boats near us at anchor with their dinghy partially or fully raised out of the water and only three or four with the dinghy still in the water.
 
caltexflanc said:
Snap shackles are designed specifically to be released under tension. That' teir woe purpose, be it in sailing rig or towing bridles or tender lift rigging. If you have ever cut a poly line under tension you would see is is absolutely less safe than popping a lanyard. One would also hope that a snubber has been deployed already in the effort to break out the anchor.

Here again we have an emergency contingency where people speculate on whether something would work or not, or simply hope that their solution might work should the need arise, rather than test and practice the rig and procedure in question pre-need.
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I'll take your word on it. I realize snap shackles are meant to be released under load - just haven't done it myself under a heavy load.

As for a snubber I think that comes back to what's happened leading you to cutting your anchor and chain free. Stuck anchor is only one.
 
My petite wife can use a 12v angle grinder but has no hope using 42" bolt cutters .And I have made sure my wife/boat partner can access and use every thing on board no matter if its a safety item or cooking implement
 
Back when I was stupid I flew hang gliders towed behind boats. We used several types of releases to drop the tow line under tension. We stole this idea from the guys who were even dumber than us. They jumped out of perfectly good airplanes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ring_release_system
 
HopCar said:
Back when I was stupid I flew hang gliders towed behind boats. We used several types of releases to drop the tow line under tension. We stole this idea from the guys who were even dumber than us. They jumped out of perfectly good airplanes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ring_release_system
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That's a very clever device with successively less load on each ring, so less risk of the release binging up under tension.
 
HopCar said:
Back when I was stupid I flew hang gliders towed behind boats. We used several types of releases to drop the tow line under tension. We stole this idea from the guys who were even dumber than us. They jumped out of perfectly good airplanes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ring_release_system
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Back when Homestead AFB still had its Sea Survival School and I was a lucky guest.....

They towed us up to 1000 feet over Biscayne Bay parasailing .....we had to release and chute to the water and hopefully not drown.

When the towboat signalled, we had 2 big pelican hooks on our chute harness connected to the tow rope. They worked pretty dang well under load when finally opened.

Thought they were gonna have to point M16s at me to get me to release.....:D

We NEVER wore chutes in USCG helos....:eek:
 
As for a snubber I think that comes back to what's happened leading you to cutting your anchor and chain free. Stuck anchor is only one.
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It would be helpful for you to enumerate the others so we can discuss the various actions that could be taken in those cases.

For those who merely speculate about the approach I like, and it seems no one else here has been around these quick release shackles, here is but one example of the options you can study up on.

TYLASKA MARINE HARDWARE Snap Shackles | West Marine

Also great for tenders on a crane davit for the day when the winch breaks, or when a tow has to be released suddenly.
 
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