Yes,specifically designed to protect the motor as a safety,but not designed as an operating control.There may be other safeties built into thrusters,but this one would definitely stop the motor,even if the contacts were welded.Eventually this would have occurred to the op,just not necessarily in time to be able to stop the boat when needed to avoid hazards.Boaters normally refer to this as "timing out",and different manuf.have different parameters,some up to three minutes,or as little as one.
Bow/Stern Thruster Warning
- Thread starter Carolena
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Greatlaker221
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Side power makes a auto switch just for this purpose. Installed at the helm, it disconnects the power to the thruster remotely in case the thurster will not shut off. IT must be a problem as they have a product to provide a solution. It is pricey at $500
If your really anal about this sort of thing, (I believe this is a very rare occurrence) but once would make a believer outta me. I would add a 12 or 24 vdc contactor in series with supply cable. Power the contactor from the helm(s) with a seperate switch or the switch on the joystick. By the way the Sidepower recommends a manual disconnect I use a battery switch that is inconveniently located.
perfect.Side power makes a auto switch just for this purpose. Installed at the helm, it disconnects the power to the thruster remotely in case the thurster will not shut off. IT must be a problem as they have a product to provide a solution. It is pricey at $500
The contactor would achieve the same results as the shunt trip,but I was trying to consider that space is usually limited,And replacing the thruster disconnect with a shunt trip would be more concise.A contactor would definitely be an option,but by the time you get one in a weather resistant cabinet,the price might be the same.
It's important to know that the thermal overload protector may be self resetting (when the temperature is back within operating range). So, the thruster that shut itself off may restart when you least expect it to.
The Blue Seas remote battery switch would do the same thing for $150 or so.Side power makes a auto switch just for this purpose. Installed at the helm, it disconnects the power to the thruster remotely in case the thurster will not shut off. IT must be a problem as they have a product to provide a solution. It is pricey at $500
I am guessing that the sidepower one would also include the shunt trip on the thruster side,that's why it is so expensive.A stop swich that I showed before is about 40 bucks,the money is in the breaker.What is included with blue seas system? thanks
just looked at it,and it is complete.Works in reverse,push to activate,not deactivate,but that is ok as long as properly labeled.Good find,great idea,kudos.
Northern Spy
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If you have an older Side Power thruster, there may be an upgrade available to prevent solenoid ringing and subsequent "tack welding" of the contacts. They call it an IPC kit.
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Whoever installed your thruster didn't read the manual. The Side Power installation manual is very high quality.
A main switch (*C) that can take the load without noticeable voltage
drop must be installed in the main positive lead so the power for the
thruster can be turned off independent of the rest when not on board
or in emergencies. This should be placed in an easy accessible
place and the boats instructions should inform that this should be
turned off like the boat’s other main switches.
A main switch (*C) that can take the load without noticeable voltage
drop must be installed in the main positive lead so the power for the
thruster can be turned off independent of the rest when not on board
or in emergencies. This should be placed in an easy accessible
place and the boats instructions should inform that this should be
turned off like the boat’s other main switches.
High Wire
Guru
Thanks for the nudge. My thruster setup is a 1-both-2 battry switch with a 300 amp fuse in the ER. I imagine I could get to it within a minute in a panic situation but far from optimal. I will replace with a Blue Seas 7713 remote battery switch. The PO used to leave this sw in BOTH, not realizing that paralleled both banks ALL THE TIME regardless of the helm battery switch position.
For welded contacts or otherwise mechanically stuck relay, only cutting off the battery source to the thruster will work. Overload trips or the ON/OFF switch on the panel only kill the control power.
For welded contacts or otherwise mechanically stuck relay, only cutting off the battery source to the thruster will work. Overload trips or the ON/OFF switch on the panel only kill the control power.
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just looked at it,and it is complete.Works in reverse,push to activate,not deactivate,but that is ok as long as properly labeled.Good find,great idea,kudos.
I have one on my workbench. I bought it because my start battery has no master switch and there's no good place to put one without a fairly long run of expensive and heavy cable.
I haven't gotten around to installing it yet.
let me know the results(perhaps in a pm)as we are starting to kill this post.I am curious to see if you feel in the end it would be satisfactory.
dhays
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As Spy noted, if the install was done correctly, I imagine there would have to be some type of manual switch or breaker in the power line from battery to thruster. In my boat, I just don't know if I have one or if I do where it would be. Yet another system to educate myself about. My list keeps growing.
There has to be a breaker between the power source(abyc) to protect the wiring(fuse or circuit breaker,and if the the power source is not within sight of the thruster(such as in the engine room,not chain locker,then the code requires a means of disconnect,Doesnt have to be fused,just a switch within sight(keyword) of the motor,so it can be positively disconnected for service(not an electrical issue,but safety requirement)
OP
OP
Carolena
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Well, having looked at all the posts from this morning, I think my reason for sharing the story has rung true - just to let people know about this and to make sure they have a shut off switch and know where it is located. That was my intent.
Just to clarify, we do have a main shutoff for the thruster (apart from the joystick panel, which only shuts off the low amp signal to the control box and solinoid on the motor). It is not the plunger type in the earlier posts - it is actually a large key turn type device (it has a handle but doesn't take a key, just don't know what it is technically called). It would have been a bit more convenient to have it right at the helm, but it is only about six steps away. Once I realized what was happening, I ran to the berth, shut it off, and returned to helm so quickly that no one realized that anything was amiss.
If it turns out the control unit is bad, Sidepower has a revised one that does have a timed shutoff, in addition to a thermal shutdown. I think the timer is around three minutes of the thruster actually running. The shutoff on the joystick switch is 10 min without any use. The three minutes, as well as thermal shutdown, would not have helped do to the tight quarters we were in. I think it is to prevent the unit from running while underway where the crew may not hear it over engine noise (I found one instance of this happening on another forum).
Again, though, the key take away is to make sure you have a shutdown, probably best if it is not tied to any other systems (except maybe the windlass), and know where it is located.
Just to clarify, we do have a main shutoff for the thruster (apart from the joystick panel, which only shuts off the low amp signal to the control box and solinoid on the motor). It is not the plunger type in the earlier posts - it is actually a large key turn type device (it has a handle but doesn't take a key, just don't know what it is technically called). It would have been a bit more convenient to have it right at the helm, but it is only about six steps away. Once I realized what was happening, I ran to the berth, shut it off, and returned to helm so quickly that no one realized that anything was amiss.
If it turns out the control unit is bad, Sidepower has a revised one that does have a timed shutoff, in addition to a thermal shutdown. I think the timer is around three minutes of the thruster actually running. The shutoff on the joystick switch is 10 min without any use. The three minutes, as well as thermal shutdown, would not have helped do to the tight quarters we were in. I think it is to prevent the unit from running while underway where the crew may not hear it over engine noise (I found one instance of this happening on another forum).
Again, though, the key take away is to make sure you have a shutdown, probably best if it is not tied to any other systems (except maybe the windlass), and know where it is located.
I doubt it. We don't know what happened in the OP's case but the thought is that if the bow thruster stays on when the switch is off, the relay is probably mechanically stuck or the contacts are welded together. The full current of the thruster motor does not go through your key switch, only the power for the controls.
OP
OP
Carolena
Guru
Correct, plus the last thing you want to do in a situation where you would be using the thruster is to shut down the engine - then you loose all control over the vessel. At least we were able to resort to lots of back and fill to turn the boat and avoid hitting anything. That is why I would not want it tied into any other main breakers, either, such as engine or house bank switches.
Cardude - my guess is that the engine switch may shut off power to the thruster control (button or joystick), which is low amperage. But if the contacts weld or the relay is stuck, which control the high amperage side, shutting that off won't stop it from running.
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markpierce
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My 24-volt thruster has its own circuit switch from the main panel, while control uses a left-right toggle. Central position is no thrust. And there's a button immediately beside the toggle to turn power off/on. After twenty minutes of non-use, the system shuts down by itself. Simple enough.
dhays
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Mine is setup that way too Mark, but I doubt that the switch on your panel actually is a switch in the cable connecting your battery to your thruster. It is just a switch to some type of remote switch in the cable. If that remote switch fails, where can you cut power to the thruster if needed?
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So many boats are wired like this where the alternator output (charge) is switched with the same switch that controls the loads. Maybe that's required with today's electronic-controlled engines, but on my ol' Perkins 4.236's, it ain't needed, so I rewired my boat. I split the charge from the loads. My charges go direct from the alternators to the start (port 55A) and house (stbd Balmar 120A) alternators. I can turn the alternators on and off with my keyed engine start switches. My loads run through my Perko switches with the exception of my windlass. It stays powered from the start battery through its own helm mounted breaker. This way, if the fit hits the shan with a major short or significant electrical malfunction, I can move from my helm to the switches in 2-3 steps to remove all electrical loads, still operate both engines so the boat has full control (with loss of instrumentation, but who cares?) and if all else fails, still deploy my battle-tested anchor. (Probably good fodder for a new thread...)
You handled that like a real pro. You know your boat and where you had to go to rectify the situation. You did it right the first time...which is often the only time it counts. Well done.
markpierce
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Why not? Every other switch cuts off its circuit (lights, horns, refrigerator, radar, and so on).
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High draw items like starters, bow thrusters and windlasses have solenoids to switch the power on and off with a lower current wire. Switches to handle the larger loads would be larger and more expensive than needed. It's important to know which of your loads are direct wired and which require the operation of a solenoid or remote switch.
BTW, my horn has a solenoid too...but it controls the air, not electrons.
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dhays
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Yeah, what FlyWright said
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
To stop a run away bow thruster you need to be able to disconnect the supply cable from the battery. It is usually the solenoid that sticks so disconnecting power to the solenoid will not solve the problem.
On Bay Pelican the supply cable is a 2/0 cable. An inexpensive on/off manual battery switch in line will do the job. We also use this switch to disconnect the bow thruster whenever the boat is being stored.
On Bay Pelican the supply cable is a 2/0 cable. An inexpensive on/off manual battery switch in line will do the job. We also use this switch to disconnect the bow thruster whenever the boat is being stored.
I have never been a fan of solenoids, as they seem to fail at a much faster rate than magnetic starters , i.e. sticking, or the coils burn. I think it might be because the coils are sealed , but , I'm not an engineer. When I worked commercially in the marine field, solenoids had to be replaced because of fail rates probably twice as much. Unfortunately, in the rec. marine industry, the controls used, regardless of the type,are nowhere built to quality that industrial ones are. Guess we all just need to continue to keep carrying a long list of spares.
