What's with it with Bay Area Marinas?

It seems that about half the time I'm at the Angel Island Ayala Cove moorings, some boats (usually nice 40 ft +/- sailboats) come in after dark and tie to an outer mooring. They're usually gone at first light. Sometimes they come in as a group of 2 or 3. All to save the $30 mooring fee!

FlyWright said:

It seems that about half the time I'm at the Angel Island Ayala Cove moorings, some boats (usually nice 40 ft +/- sailboats) come in after dark and tie to an outer mooring. They're usually gone at first light. Sometimes they come in as a group of 2 or 3. All to save the $30 mooring fee!

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That's also my observation. ... Sailboaters seem to hate to pay for fuel for their engines, falsely believing their sails will annul the need for engine fuel. ... Some are too cheap to pay for moorage/docking also.

It is amazing any marina closes for all or part of a weekend, when transient business can be strong. I`m unaware of any Municipal/State operated marinas here. Private enterprise means they stay open and available.
As to boats avoiding paying their way, that`s just wrong. Hawkesbury/Pittwater boaters will know the Basin mooring field, and the adjacent national park camping ground facility, with toilets, bbqs, covered cooking facility, garbage dumpsters, and of course the endearing cold showers,(and the resident wallabies and goannas). Some people going ashore try to avoid paying the $3 pp fee the rangers collect, we make a point of finding the ranger if he/she doesn`t find us,to pay our dues.

CPseudonym said:

Precisely David. Though it never happened to me I'd gladly leave a note with contact information. Using lock picks is an easily attainable skill set that is very handy to have.

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Would't get you far here in Oz, as almost all have now been converted to electronic tag type locks. They can even selectively lock out anyone they want who is not paid up, etc, without affecting the other berth users.

However, coming back to the issue the caused a bit of heat above of sailors versus power boaters, I have to say when I was a yachtie, as we call sail boaters, (bugger off spell checker FCS I know what I'm typing), our prevailing view was that 'fizz boat' (Ie power boat) owners, were way less considerate, rule abiding, and friendly than yachties. So it all depends one whose side you're on.

However, on the specific issue of waste dumping, those who came up with the strict waste dumping laws, (thinking mainly blackwater here), completely failed to consider just how far, and for a yacht or sailboat, how long therefore, it often is for someone in same to actually get to a working pump-out facility. Especially when often by virtue of their size and design, their holding tanks are often far smaller than power boats can accommodate, and for same reason, onboard treatment is also not practical. As has been said more than once, the amount of waste marine animals contribute, (e.g. whales), makes what the odd sailboat might drop, literally a drop in the bucket, in terms of effect on water quality. If it's going to take you a full day's sailing to reach the nearest pump-out facility, and your tank is full...who you gonna call..? Ghostbusters will be no help at all...just sayin'

The envelope for after hours payment seems pretty common in BC. Of course there are scofflaws as Spy notes, some of whom show up late and leave early because they are welfare cases living off the dole as a lifestyle.

A better question though is are there any marinas in the SF Bay Area that are really trying to improve things? CA is broke with marinas way down the list for monies in comparison to the hordes with their hands out.

BC in comparison amazes me with the interest and willingness to make life by the sea for transient boaters and residents more interesting, cleaner and safer. Comox, Powell River, Prince Rupert and Chemainus come me to mind. Alaska the same, many Marina improvements.

Fortunately we could choose where we wanted to boat when we both quit work. NZ would be in second place to the NW Americas. But, for those lucky Nordhavn owners who actually use their vessels it really doesn't matter, go anywhere

Staying in a marina or using their services without paying is "theft of service" no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter if it's a government run marina or private.
Some of our parents raised us better than that, some did not. Which are you?

Greetings,
I'm in the "Slip the $$ under the door" crowd and a BIG believer in Karma...

Not that I am sticking up for the blow boats, but have you seen the cost to replace sails and rigging??? I like my stink pot!!!!

I think the sailboaters as frugal is a bit of a Pygmalion effect. There may be a certain unconscious expectation to fulfill a stereotype.

A bit of a harmless competition of being thrifty by some participants.

This is from a red hat owning guy who lived on Cap'n Crunch as a railbird for a while.

Then there are the flotillas of homeless who happen to occupy things formerly known as boats. They just ruin the liveaboard lifestyle for lots of us.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Not that I am sticking up for the blow boats, but have you seen the cost to replace sails and rigging??? I like my stink pot!!!!

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Good point but the cost of the sails is what one gets when they have a sail boat. And, yes, they're expensive.

No reason to steal services or anything, especially in a private marina.

However, re: marinas, there should be "reasonableness" to access land from public waterways... just like it should be on the road or at airports. Now, my experience with marinas has been that it's not too bad, yet, but something that should be under control.
I've seen the aviation community get screwed with ridiculous fees that have never existed before and some are outlandish, like $600 to park your plane at Boston, or buy fuel at $8.50 a gallon, when other airports around there are as lot as $3.00! And this is rampant, all over the country these fees for parking, stopping, handling, overnight, etc have gotten way out of hand.

We don't want to see this in the marinas. Could you imagine if you had to pay $600 to park your boat in the marina for a few hours for lunch? Or get hit with $8 gas with few other options around. and worse yet, you don't get any kind of service.

The problem in boating and aviation is that there is often not enough choice to get where we want to go... there may only be one or two marinas in the area. I hate government intervention, but we don't need price gouging.

Now, off my soap box....

I don't believe we have the issue much... yet. And I have a hard time condoning stealing a slip or dock space, regardless. And fortunately, there's still a ton of free docking out there. There are several fairly nice ones within an hour of my dock, in St. Pete.

Seevee said:

............. We don't want to see this in the marinas. Could you imagine if you had to pay $600 to park your boat in the marina for a few hours for lunch? Or get hit with $8 gas with few other options around. and worse yet, you don't get any kind of service.

The problem in boating and aviation is that there is often not enough choice to get where we want to go... there may only be one or two marinas in the area. I hate government intervention, but we don't need price gouging.
............... .

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We live in a land of capitalism and private enterprise. Competition and local conditions determine pricing. If I can fill my marina at $2.50 per foot, why would I choose to charge only $1.50 per foot? What would you do if you owned a marina (or any other business). Just for kicks, get on Active Captain and check the marina prices in New York City. Don't for get to check add-ons like "facility charges" in addition to the per foot rate.

Do you really want the government to start telling private businesses what they are allowed to charge? Really?

If the government comes to me and tells me I can only charge $1.50 per foot and I can't make a profit on my investment at that rate, I'll sell it to someone who will build condos. Then where will you park your boat?

WesK said:

We live in a land of capitalism and private enterprise. Competition and local conditions determine pricing. If I can fill my marina at $2.50 per foot, why would I choose to charge only $1.50 per foot? What would you do if you owned a marina (or any other business). Just for kicks, get on Active Captain and check the marina prices in New York City. Don't for get to check add-ons like "facility charges" in addition to the per foot rate.

Do you really want the government to start telling private businesses what they are allowed to charge? Really?

If the government comes to me and tells me I can only charge $1.50 per foot and I can't make a profit on my investment at that rate, I'll sell it to someone who will build condos. Then where will you park your boat?

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WesK,

Excellent point, and I'm all for free enterprise. There's a few issues where our government should be there to protect us. And, I'm NOT a socialist and NOT for big government.

When someone has control over our access to open lands, cities, waterways and other public places, when is enough enough.

Suppose you own the marina in town and decide that you can get $5 a foot, and every other marine decides the same. But every other marina in the state is charging $1 and doing quite well. In your town you can't dock unless you pay the price.

Now, you and the other marinas decide that you're now going to charge $50 a foot but instead of getting 20 customers a day, you get 5 who have mega yachts or money to burn. You probably make more money, with less staff, but the average boater with the 30 to 50 ft boats can't get access and they get out of boating.

Extreme? Yes, but where do we drawn the line? Reasonably access to and from our waterways. Whose responsible?

Some areas and parts of our country go nuts. New York and California are them. Just crazy. Do we want that to come to the rest of us?

Were you parking a small GA plane at Boston at the corporate FBO? If so, your's probably wasn't the business they were trying to attract. They're after the corporate jets and high rollers. Their high overhead requires a steady stream of $$. 35 Gallons of 100LL and clean the windshield doesn't cut it with the big boys.

Not sure if they do this in the bay area, but some marinas in BC will side tie you when they are full. Then you do not have access to power, maybe water and they charge you full price!


Places like Lund will side tie you, but are set up for extra power and water. This place is always full, but the great service is what counts. Sometimes they just have to tell cruisers " We are sorry, but we are full at this time."

Seevee said:

WesK,

Excellent point, and I'm all for free enterprise. There's a few issues where our government should be there to protect us. And, I'm NOT a socialist and NOT for big government.

When someone has control over our access to open lands, cities, waterways and other public places, when is enough enough.

Suppose you own the marina in town and decide that you can get $5 a foot, and every other marine decides the same. But every other marina in the state is charging $1 and doing quite well. In your town you can't dock unless you pay the price.

Now, you and the other marinas decide that you're now going to charge $50 a foot but instead of getting 20 customers a day, you get 5 who have mega yachts or money to burn. You probably make more money, with less staff, but the average boater with the 30 to 50 ft boats can't get access and they get out of boating.

Extreme? Yes, but where do we drawn the line? Reasonably access to and from our waterways. Whose responsible?

Some areas and parts of our country go nuts. New York and California are them. Just crazy. Do we want that to come to the rest of us?

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You pose a highly unlikely situation and if all the marina owners actually got together to fix prices, that would be illegal. Most likely marina owners would not all charge $50 or even $5 per foot because by charging less, they get the business. That's capitalism and free enterprise the way it's supposed to work.

You could make your argument for plumbers, electricians, grocery stores, just about anything and the answer would be the same.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Not sure if they do this in the bay area, but some marinas in BC will side tie you when they are full. Then you do not have access to power, maybe water and they charge you full price!


Places like Lund will side tie you, but are set up for extra power and water. This place is always full, but the great service is what counts. Sometimes they just have to tell cruisers " We are sorry, but we are full at this time."

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On our way back South (same day we spoke you on the radio) we stopped in Westview. They were full but got us a side tie alongside a commercial shrimper. Yeah, it would have been nice to get power, and water was a bit of a pain, but I was really glad to have a spot for the night and didn't mind having to side tie. Both the marina staff and the fisherman we were tied up to were very helpful. So for me I appreciated the opportunity to make the choice. They told me on the radio that the only thing they had available was rafting. It was my choice to take it, or to move on.

Some areas and parts of our country go nuts. New York and California are them. Just crazy. Do we want that to come to the rest of us?

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I wish Florida had California's typical dockage fees, heck even most places in NC; that kind of crazy would be good for the cruising yachtsman.