Installing Formica

Capt.Bill11 said:

Gluing Starboard With 2P 10 Story by Bill Foster (captbill11) | Photobucket

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That is amazing!
Great to know. Thanks!
Bruce

+1 to the folks who say: rip out/remove the loose delaminated stuff and fill w/epoxy before bonding Formica, or some other laminate. However, if the plywood is delaminated very deeply, think about where the epoxy and filler will go. In our Fu Hwa, such a place would be on to the top of the shower ceiling (been thinking about fixing my similar problem).

+1 to the folks who favor epoxying over contact cement. Dropping the laminate correctly onto the contact cement will be a chore what with the inward-sloping window surround, even with slip sheets, rollers or such tricks.

I've successfully done lots of plastic laminate and wood veneer using contact cement. I moved over to the epoxy side about 20 years ago. Use your epoxy slightly filled/thickened so that any voids from imperfect clamping/ballasting will be avoided

+1 to the folks who wonder about color and reflectivity. Try placing a large sample of something similar and drive around.

+1 to the folks who suggest a laminate with 'body' like plywood or Starboard. You'd care less about how perfect your repair of the substrate was.

Bruce B said:

That is amazing!
Great to know. Thanks!
Bruce

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Couple of tricks not shown in the video we made are to sand both surfaces you are going to glue together before heating them with a torch. And heat the surfaces a bit longer than it shows in the video.

Basically you need to aneal (sp)? the surfaces before you glue them. Just as you do when using King Plastics proprietary Starboard glue.

P2-10 is great for gluing almost anything very quickl and strongly. Use it a lot for wood work. And it comes in various thicknesses.

After reading this thread, I looked on my dash for the edges of a repair done with a piece of teak plywood, 10 or so years ago. Couldn't find the spot. After a short time, the new teak veneers will fade to the same colours as the side by side original. All you will need to do is get the edges to fit properly, after choosing the correct thickness. Contact cement works here, as would epoxy or even white carpenter's glue.
If I had to do the whole dash, not just a small repair, I would also use a thin teak plywood. That would return the dash to its original look, better at resale time, and avoid the "if this crappy looking repair is typical....".
Not that some boats didn't come with formica, mine has formica in the heads, but usually the dash is treated to much nicer looking materials, being somewhat of a show-off spot.

Using a filler over an already compromised substrate is not a good idea.I used to make countertops as part of my business,and no manufacturer will advise that.Fillers like dash patch are on meant for small imperfections,not a resurfacing project.If you think the glue that holds the other layers of the existing ply are any more sound than the one that has been compromised,you are sorely mistaken.If you cant remove then entire substrate,them you can laminate a piece of 5mm ply over it using a two part epoxy along with mechanical fasteners.The fasteners need to be long enough that go thru the new and old substrate attaching to whatever framing is available,then fill the fastener voids with dash patch,and sand smooth with 120 grit sandpaper(no finer) ,and then you can apply your finished surface.

Try this tub surround material from Home Depot. It's thick enough to hide rough surfaces
if you don't mind the texture.

boatpoker said:

Try this tub surround material from Home Depot. It's thick enough to hide rough surfaces
if you don't mind the texture.

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Thst stuff is great for a lot of things.

But it's about the last stuff you'd want to use on the dash of a helm where you'd be running the boat at night.

White and shiny!

Capt.Bill11 said:

Thst stuff is great for a lot of things.

But it's about the last stuff you'd want to use on the dash of a helm where you'd be running the boat at night.

White and shiny!

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Krylon plastic paint from Home Depot also ... any colour .... make it look like low gloss leather if you want.

Lots of guessing what is there and what needs to be done to get to a solid, smooth structure..if one is there at all.

After that...lots of ways to do it...lots of products to use. Easy or hard for both method and material.

About the only consistent truth is .....white antything at the helm is really never a good idea.

IG used a woodgrain simulated "Formica" type finish on the area the OP is reworking. It mimics wood, has a dull non reflective finish(maybe a more reflective satin 35 years ago). The Estate executor I bought from thought a nasty finish,I see it as a sensible long life compromise. It responds well to low sheen Armor all.

boatpoker said:

Krylon plastic paint from Home Depot also ... any colour .... make it look like low gloss leather if you want.

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I guess.

But seems like it would be a whole lot easier to start with the color mica you want to end up with and not have to worry about the paint wearing, scratching, falling off a sheet of glossy white plastic later.

Or while you are installing the painted plastic.

We replaced some Formica in the pilot house using a matt finish. Not the center section where the OP wants to but both sides of that plus a few other areas. We've found the matt finish is not reflective enough to be an issue. The existing finish was Formica and had some digs, holes and cracks but nothing over 1" in diameter. I used some 80 grit on a random orbital to scruff up the existing Formica and then acetone to clean/degrease. Contact cement was the adhesive. After 2 years, none of the imperfections have telegraphed through.

For cutting a pattern, we ripped ~2" strips of door skin. Using a pair of scissors and a hot glue gun you can make a pattern in about 5 minutes.

I'm not on the boat but here's a picture of when I was making patterns for the galley.

The Epoxy sold for use on concrete garage floors looks like it should work esp well with a complex area.

Just roll it on.

Lots of good posts here. I'm suggesting the 1/4" plywood is good if you float and level bad spots. Minimizes too much messy sanding. Use luan door skin cut in 2" wide strips (available from most home centers) to make a template by gluing together with a hot glue gun. Use the template to mark and cut the plywood then dry fit and adjust as necessary. Contact cement the Formica to the plywood then use Wes systems to bond plywood to your dash.

The (likely) problem with suggesting Luan door skins for anything is that most, if not all, cheepie Luan hollow core doors these days are made with Luan veneer on a very soft grade of Masonite-like cardboard. Sheesh. However, the 1/4" underlayment plywood sold at the Despot and all is vaguely Birch and both cheap and useful for pattern making.

Pics below show: Luan-cardboard doorskins used for modelling arch trim; it survived until the first rain, and Despot underlayment used to pattern a Flying Dutchman deck.

DHeckrotte said:

The (likely) problem with suggesting Luan door skins for anything is that most, if not all, cheepie Luan hollow core doors these days are made with Luan veneer on a very soft grade of Masonite-like cardboard. Sheesh. However, the 1/4" underlayment plywood sold at the Despot and all is vaguely Birch and both cheap and useful for pattern making.

Pics below show: Luan-cardboard doorskins used for modelling arch trim; it survived until the first rain, and Despot underlayment used to pattern a Flying Dutchman deck.

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I'm not suggesting one use the actual luan (with cardboard) door. That would be pretty bumb... We buy sheets of thin wood (luan wood) that's maybe 3/16" thick at most. Rip it into 2" wood strips. There is no cardboard! Pretty standard shipwright template material. And, it cuts easy with razor knife and the thin edges easily sand to scribed marks to form an exact fit template. 1/4" ply is so thick it can't easily tuck into narrow spaces. Seems to me a very unwieldy material for some templates. When you just need the outline luan is great. I'll get a used template off the boat tomorrow so I can include a picture. Sheesh...

DHeckrotte said:

The (likely) problem with suggesting Luan door skins for anything is that most, if not all, cheepie Luan hollow core doors these days are made with Luan veneer on a very soft grade of Masonite-like cardboard. Sheesh. However, the 1/4" underlayment plywood sold at the Despot and all is vaguely Birch and both cheap and useful for pattern making.

Pics below show: Luan-cardboard doorskins used for modelling arch trim; it survived until the first rain, and Despot underlayment used to pattern a Flying Dutchman deck.

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See LarryM's post above. That's the luan door skin. Perfect solution.

Slightly off topic, but somewhat related.
Has anyone successfully painted Formica? What was the process? How did it hold up over time?

BelleAurore said:

I'm not suggesting one use the actual luan (with cardboard) door. That would be pretty bumb... We buy sheets of thin wood (luan wood) that's maybe 3/16" thick at most. Rip it into 2" wood strips. There is no cardboard! Pretty standard shipwright template material. And, it cuts easy with razor knife and the thin edges easily sand to scribed marks to form an exact fit template. 1/4" ply is so thick it can't easily tuck into narrow spaces. Seems to me a very unwieldy material for some templates. When you just need the outline luan is great. I'll get a used template off the boat tomorrow so I can include a picture. Sheesh...

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FOG said:

Slightly off topic, but somewhat related.
Has anyone successfully painted Formica? What was the process? How did it hold up over time?

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Either someone here a few years back or on another forum described using a "system" to renew an old formica top.

I think it was a 2 part epoxy that you stirred in whatever look you wanted...like marble chip or whatever.

It supposedly looked very good as some commented they too had seen it, and like most 2 part epoxies with a decent thickness, it probably held up as good as any new surface.

You might try a few Google searches...sorry I can't be more specific with name or brand.

I have to redo my galley...while the surface is bad...it is the peeling up that is the real trouble. I found out when redoing my head that a heat gun hot enough to get the formica too hot to touch, was enough usually to make the contact cement lose its grip and the whole sheet could be pulled off in one piece unless already compromised. So you have ready made patterns.

Perhaps the best repair is not plastic laminate (Formica) but something else that can be screwed in place. There are many options including veneered plywood, acrylic, and yes, even Starboard. A fitted piece of plywood underlayment covered with soft plastic (like a car dash) is an option and there are companies that make pads for swim platforms and such that will custom cut a (soft) cover. SeaDek Marine Products - Swim Platform Pads

Sometimes the first thought that comes into our heads isn't the best one but we get stuck on it.

psneeld said:

Either someone here a few years back or on another forum described using a "system" to renew an old formica top.

I think it was a 2 part epoxy that you stirred in whatever look you wanted...like marble chip or whatever.

It supposedly looked very good as some commented they too had seen it, and like most 2 part epoxies with a decent thickness, it probably held up as good as any new surface.

You might try a few Google searches...sorry I can't be more specific with name or brand.

I have to redo my galley...while the surface is bad...it is the peeling up that is the real trouble. I found out when redoing my head that a heat gun hot enough to get the formica too hot to touch, was enough usually to make the contact cement lose its grip and the whole sheet could be pulled off in one piece unless already compromised. So you have ready made patterns.

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Thanks. I'll try the Google search.
I'd like to try and match the white color of some existing Formica by painting the darker Formica below it in the galley.

Heh, heh! I sourced my last Luan door skin from a cheepie Despot door. I had intended to cut the door down to the size I needed to remount a clay tile lion I'd made in Junior High and which had been mounted on a cut-down Luan door for the several decades before Hurricane Irene ruined the mounting. When I cut my new door down, intending to simply move the edge strips in to the new dimension, I discovered the cardboard. Thus I had junky Luan-cardboard doorskins available for pattern making. I've never seen Luan-wood doorskins available for purchase, thus my use of underlayment.

You can paint Formica and similar plastic laminate perfectly well. Get it clean, sand the gloss off, paint.

I'm not Lion, just often uninformed. The thing is now mounted on a hollow-core panel made with an underlayment back face and 1/4" tile backer front face. Weighs about 250 lbs. Hangs on 3/8" bolts threaded into reinforcements installed in the wall. The thing can be lifted off, the bolts unthreaded, leaving only the boltholes (couplings) remaining flush with the plaster.