Boat searching/Buying Disaster

Everybody loves a good or bad story about trying to buy a boat. Especially when they are not involved. My wife and I have been searching for a new boat since we sold our Island Packet two years ago. We (and by that I mean “I”) may be a bit picky. We narrowed the search down to something like a 36’ Sabreline double cabin (notice how I avoided calling it a “fast” trawler). We also looked at the 36’ Prairie and 37’ Atlantic as well as a Mainship 350/390. The Prairie had the best layout but the ones we looked at were more of a project than I wanted to get into. The Mainships are abundant so of course we focused on the Sabreline. We seemed to always show up on the day they went under contract. Which brings me to Saturday August 20th. We decided to go for a Mainship 350/390. We had already seen them and knew all about the various design flaws (search swim platform issues) and subsequent repairs/fixes needed to make them work. We chose one about 5 hours from our house and took the check book with us. I asked the broker about the Yanmar engine and if it had the valves done (search Yanmar 6LP-STE Valve problems). He assured me it had been done and said you’ll be amazed and impressed at the work done on this engine. Hmmm, I guess that should have been my first clue. Once we got there and started to look over the boat, I noticed several soft spots as well as lifted areas of the deck. Not quite a deal breaker but given there are 50 of these boats for sale it would have been nice to know beforehand. The engine room was spotless and a few systems were fairly new (AC compressor, battery charger, batteries, fresh water pumps, etc.). Hmmm Clue #2. While looking under the guest berth and looking far forward I noticed a scum line. This area is about a foot above the engine compartment. OK, so now I have a direct question for the broker. Has this boat been under water? Well, he says, not exactly. The owners were away for a year traveling Europe and stored the boat on the hard. When they returned there were “pockets” of standing water that they observed. So just to be safe, they removed the engine and had it rebuilt along with performing the necessary “valve job”. And while they were at it they had the transmission replaced as well as a few other items. Most people would have walked/run at this point but nooo, not me. I decide to use this newfound knowledge to my advantage in the offering price. But before that could take place I decided to poke around a bit more. While looking under the stairs leading to the forward cabins, I noticed a small bilge area with a similar tell-tale scum line and severely corroded bilge pump. Immediately next to the pump I noticed at the turn of the hull to keel, a six inch long crack weeping water from the outside. Okay, time for me to run. I’m no longer interested in this boat. I didn’t expect the broker to know about this crack, but since the decks were obvious (several attempted repairs) and the engine room had clearly been under water (sunken while on land), a little heads-up would have been nice. To add insult to injury; three hours into our trip home, a 19 year old girl decided she needed to drive across a five lane road without ever looking in our direction. A mild concussion for my wife (5 airbags deployed), and a totaled car, we are now going car shopping. Life is still good!

Todd R said:

A mild concussion for my wife (5 airbags deployed), and a totaled car, we are now going car shopping. Life is still good!

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Hope your wife is OK. That, of course, is the single most important thing.

Life is still good, huh? I'm kind of wondering what it would take to make it bad, then, after that recitation. An earthquake? Plague of locusts?

god,i feel for you.Time for a cocktail!!!

Wow!

Look on the bright side, you're not stuck with someone else's turd.

Seriously though, I pray your wife has a full recovery. Our youngest son suffered a concussion a week ago and is having post concussion symptoms. Had a full week off school and cannot return to football until October, can be nasty stuff.

Sorry Todd. I agree with John, I hope your wife recovers well. What a waste of time, money, and aggravation.

CPseudonym said:

Look on the bright side, you're not stuck with someone else's turd.

Seriously though, I pray your wife has a full recovery. Our youngest son suffered a concussion a week ago and is having post concussion symptoms. Had a full week off school and cannot return to football until October, can be nasty stuff.

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Hate to say this but if your son had that bad of a concussion he should NEVER return to football! I know a couple of local kids that had a few of those and may never fully recover. For football?!?!? It aint worth it.

Sorry for the hijack to the OP and I hope your wife is doing well, the boat, oh well. Keep looking.

Sorry for your multiple misfortunes.
Your power of observation is good. Taking into account the hull damage, would you wonder about the (not volunteered) broker explanation that the inundation came from above, not from below.

Condolences, wishes and cheers for you and the admiral!

Interesting, they saw puddles of water, so they yanked out and had the engine and trans. rebuilt?
Wishing a speedy and complete recovery for your wife.

jwnall said:

Hope your wife is OK. That, of course, is the single most important thing.

Life is still good, huh? I'm kind of wondering what it would take to make it bad, then, after that recitation. An earthquake? Plague of locusts?

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I completely agree with his observation life is still good. Anytime in a wreck such as the one they were in and you're alive and able to talk about it and hopefully no lasting injuries. Not all that long ago, that accident would have been death. I think when you're so relieved then the totaled car and the bad boat don't mean a thing anymore.

78puget-trawler said:

Hate to say this but if your son had that bad of a concussion he should NEVER return to football! I know a couple of local kids that had a few of those and may never fully recover. For football?!?!? It aint worth it.

Sorry for the hijack to the OP and I hope your wife is doing well, the boat, oh well. Keep looking.

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I know we'll probably be a minority. I'm a huge sports fan and that includes football. However, I would never let my child play football and especially after a concussion while young. Before I knew all the dangers of concussions I was aware of all the physical problems football players, the shortened average life spans of some, especially offensive linemen, and I didn't think I'd want a kid playing. Now, with CTE, I know I wouldn't. And, yes, had I had the skill when young, I probably would have wanted to play. Fortunately it wasn't my favorites sport to play either.

I hate being part of a hijack but this is a matter of great concern and I'd advise you at the least to personally take your son's records and talk to some doctor's expert in the field.

Now I'll get off the soapbox.

I hope your wife has a complete and speedy recovery.
I know you have been searching for some time now, but hang in there and your expertise will lead you to the right boat.

Y'all can drop the hijack as none of you has a single material fact. If you wish to advise my sons neurologist then pm me your phone number and your credentials, if you're qualified to offer anything professionally perhaps he'll consult with you. Then again he probably doesn't need your opinions.

To the op: My apologies as it seems my attempt to empathize and somehow oddly commiserate with your misfortune has turned into amateur hour. I assure you that was not my intent. Too many folks watching CSI shows...

Thanks to all for the good thoughts.

CPseudonym said:

Y'all can drop the hijack as none of you has a single material fact. If you wish to advise my sons neurologist then pm me your phone number and your credentials, if you're qualified to offer anything professionally perhaps he'll consult with you. Then again he probably doesn't need your opinions.

To the op: My apologies as it seems my attempt to empathize and somehow oddly commiserate with your misfortune has turned into amateur hour. I assure you that was not my intent. Too many folks watching CSI shows...

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We have the facts that you gave us. For the record I don't watch CSI.

Recovery

Good luck with the recovery and car shopping. Heck, no one has mentioned that pain yet with all this drift. Car shopping - ?? :banged:

The good news everyone walked away. The car did was it was suppose to and cared for the passengers. Thanks for sharing the story about your detective skills in play. Knowing the boat you end up actually owning will make all this challenging home work all that worth while. The first sun downer on her decks will make all the effort well worth while. It's why we do what we do.

May your the remaining of your search go smoother.

CPseudonym said:

Y'all can drop the hijack as none of you has a single material fact. If you wish to advise my sons neurologist then pm me your phone number and your credentials, if you're qualified to offer anything professionally perhaps he'll consult with you. Then again he probably doesn't need your opinions.

To the op: My apologies as it seems my attempt to empathize and somehow oddly commiserate with your misfortune has turned into amateur hour. I assure you that was not my intent. Too many folks watching CSI shows...

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Best of luck to you and your son. I apologize for making my statements in this thread and have messaged you privately where I should have initially.

Here's wishing you much better luck from here on out! - Art

BandB said:

Best of luck to you and your son.

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+1

Feel I should hijack for a moment due to statements on other posts... Regarding Concussions.


Although there is no other sensible plan/outlook than to have as few as possible throughout your life... they are usually not the end of the world. Many of them are simply "just what life deals".


I boxed, played offence and defense line in football, and, I was in coma for seven days due to automotive head injury... as well as knocked cold for several minutes (20 + scalp stitches) from falling eight feet onto concrete patio - head first... OUCH!!


These "head" items happened years ago. Some in my teens/twenties... eight foot fall in my mid 50's


I'm currently 64. And, going strong!

Todd R said:

To add insult to injury; three hours into our trip home, a 19 year old girl decided she needed to drive across a five lane road without ever looking in our direction. A mild concussion for my wife (5 airbags deployed), and a totaled car, we are now going car shopping. Life is still good!

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Hope for all the best for your wife.

Totaled is probably slightly better; repaired means diminished value, even if fixed to functionally and cosmetically perfect. Hope it wasn't the Jeep.

Wifey just got her new car, about 18 months after being rammed at a stoplight, near noon, by the sleeping young lady. This the third time somebody has decided to run into one or both of us at speed. Wouldn't mind being able to drive an Abrams around town...

-Chris

Art said:

Feel I should hijack for a moment due to statements on other posts... Regarding Concussions.


Although there is no other sensible plan/outlook than to have as few as possible throughout your life... they are usually not the end of the world. Many of them are simply "just what life deals".


I boxed, played offence and defense line in football, and, I was in coma for seven days due to automotive head injury... as well as knocked cold for several minutes (20 + scalp stitches) from falling eight feet onto concrete patio - head first... OUCH!!


These "head" items happened years ago. Some in my teens/twenties... eight foot fall in my mid 50's


I'm currently 64. And, going strong!

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I'd humbly suggest that surviving an 8' fall, head first, onto concrete is simply lucky... Not sure I'd want to assign a label as to the kind of luck....
Wow!
Bruce

Bruce B said:

I'd humbly suggest that surviving an 8' fall, head first, onto concrete is simply lucky... Not sure I'd want to assign a label as to the kind of luck....
Wow!
Bruce

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RE 8' fall onto concrete: Hard Headed [75% Irish/25% Italian] is all the doctors, my wife, our kids, our grand kids and I can come up with. I was really "spaced-out" for a few weeks and still felt repercussions (funny how that rimes with concussions) regarding balance and equilibrium in general for months. Once I got over those hurdles all seems to have returned to OK... for about eight years now.

Re Auto Accident: Head injury, i.e. 7 day coma, that I was in from auto accident [wrapped the car around a tree due to high speed tire blow out on a curve] at 21 produced considerably more pronounced affects than the above. Took a week +/- after regaining consciousness before I could use correct words in a sentence and therefore talk understandably. At very first days I did not recognize people, family included; nor understood where I was. Balance and my inner-brain directional compass were really screwed up for many, many months. Wheel chair for a while because if I stood, even with crutches, I'd topple over. Took a couple years for that accident's repercussions to truly mollify. There are still some incidental lingering affects regarding nerve actions and feeling responses for muscles and skin on left side of face and skull. Scars lines over left eye and lower lip area have basically turned into looking like age lines at 64 years. Costs for new teeth (upper and lower) every couple decades to replace the fronts that were knocked out is the cost of "doing life". After couple decades of OK teeth - since current re-do - I recently spent $16K on my teeth. For what my "Doc" accomplished over the span of a full year that is a bargain to be sure . Love my mid 60 yr. old dentist! Now, my mouth should be good to go into my mid 80's or longer???? Last complete re-do lasted a full 30 yrs.

BTW - Loving Life! Being alive and getting back to 99.5% capable after some of my accidents is a blessing to be sure. In addition to being a hard headed Irish/Italian for recovering from head injuries - I also daily Thank My Creator - i.e. God... or what ever handle one may like to affix!!

Good but painful story, OP. Best wishes to you and your wife!

Sold and bought a few times in the past, I come to have NO respect for most ( if not all ) boat brokers, they are basically back lot used car or carpet salesmen. I find it laughable when I read something like .... " professionally cared for by a loving and a knowledgeable owner " I actually had a buyer's broker say to me to come up a few $K in a sign back because the buyer was interested ..... The last being our current new boat where the holding tank ( empty when we viewed & sea trial ) was cracked and I had to replace it ..... btw, the broker claimed intimate knowledge of this boat and owner ....... Be sharp and don't believe anything !!! unless it's your own people. FB

My experience is that boat brokers cover the spectrum. The sellers broker on my current boat was one of the most honest and open I have met pointing out issues and getting questions answered. There was also one, that had he been younger, I would have killed him on the spot, simply to keep him from siring more plagues to humanity.

Ted

Wow! we have a 390 and to have a scum line that high means that boat could only have been sunk. there would have been 3.5' to 4' inside the boat. T
hat is a lot of water. Every time I pull any boat I ever had for the season I pull the drain plug. I looked at a boat with a buddy of mine about a month ago. It was a 44' Sea Ray express cruiser. It was on the hard for several years with the cabin door partially open and there was only about 8" of water in the engine compartment and 2" on the deck
inside. (drain plug had not been removed).

John

johnma said:

Wow! we have a 390 and to have a scum line that high means that boat could only have been sunk. there would have been 3.5' to 4' inside the boat....John

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That was my suspicion(#8 above).
Side note: Broker says engine has been upgraded. Sounds good. On questioning broker says "upgrade" due to freshwater leakage into hull and nice owner repairing engine, just in case. Sounds ok, except for failure to disclose reason for engine "upgrade". Probable yet more BS "explanation", it`s more likely due to salt water engine incursion from below.
Very naughty broker, off the Xmas card list.

Boat Search is back on

My wife is recovering and we purchased another car today, so now back to the important task. Time to find a Boat. Anyone getting ready to sell their 36' Sabreline aft cabin (I can't afford the Sedan)? Prefer Yanmar or Cummins or Cats in that order. Thanks again for the good thoughts!

Todd