Da(m)nforth anchor!

By that title one probably suspects I dragged a Danforth all over the bay in yesterdays storm in Puget Sound. Well I don't know for sure who all was hit but I was. I was anchored in Indian Cove on Shaw Is. We got there on Saturday afternoon and weather was quite nice. Dropped the 35 pound or so Danforth with all chain rode and let out about 60 feet in 20 ft of water. Next morning got up to the soft slap of wavelets against the hull which seemed to grow over time. A couple hours later it was a stiff 15-20 and later still gusting 30-35 with attendant chop that grew to 3-4 feet in height. I was the only powerboat in the cove with 5 or 6 sailboats of varying size including the well known MARTHA, a fairly good size wood schooner, and they all bailed out early. So after lunch my boy and I decided this sucked and said lets move inshore into the more protected part of the bay. Long story short, didn't start but eventually got going and went to pull the anchor. I worked for about a half hour getting that sucker up! I rode over it, I jumped up and down on the tight chain, I tried to back into the wind to get behind it, I finally let out a lot of chain and pulled on that sucker in reverse sideways after exhausting myself and all other means I could think of. My poor Lofrans was getting hot and working its arse off tying to get that anchor up. It finally broke free and we got it aboard. I should have had half again that much scope out for the conditions and did let out some when the wind started picking up, but holy cow that anchor held on short scope! Of course the two flukes are no longer on the same plane, one is now north of the other. I haven't closely examined it yet but it may be OK. We left there and went over to Friday Harbor to wait it out and came home today. I guess Rosario was bad enough the Victoria Clipper wouldn't cross it during the blow. Seemed more like October yesterday!

Danforth will be pleased!
We used the Victoria Clipper in May, from Seattle. There was lots of vomiting, fortunately not from us, in "lumpy" conditions, Cats at speed have odd motion.

"60 feet in 20 depth " amazing holding with such short scope.

A small buoy with 3/8 line to the crown would locate your anchor for other boaters and probably have made retrieval a yawn.

FF said:

"60 feet in 20 depth " amazing holding with such short scope.

A small buoy with 3/8 line to the crown would locate your anchor for other boaters and probably have made retrieval a yawn.

Click to expand...

I find the S-Sarca trip slot comes in really handy when I get a very buried and grippy set. Takes a lot of the pain out of the situation.

I've seen (not used) this method of rigging to increase ease of retrieval in tough situations.
It eliminates the need for a separate trip line to be attached / disconnected / stored etc...which one will probably not do EVERY time you anchor and Murphy says you probably won't rig it when you will need it.

Anchor Break-Away release Method

Bacchus said:

I've seen (not used) this method of rigging to increase ease of retrieval in tough situations.
It eliminates the need for a separate trip line to be attached / disconnected / stored etc...which one will probably not do EVERY time you anchor and Murphy says you probably won't rig it when you will need it.

Anchor Break-Away release Method

Click to expand...

Wonder if the zip tie breaks when the anchor pivots during a tidal current change.

Ted

I agree Ted,
With that method one is putting the unknown strength of a tie-wrap in the lineup of all the other elements of anchoring that are carefully choosen.
Most of the little charter fish boats in SE Alaska do that but they don't anchor overnight w that arrangement.
It appears clever but is not overnight.

O C Diver said:

Wonder if the zip tie breaks when the anchor pivots during a tidal current change.

Ted

Click to expand...

You should only use that break away configuration when anchoring for a short time in an area with a high likelyhood of fouling. Like fishing in a rocky area.

You can use Monel rigging wire instead of zip ties if you want a bit more secure connection that you can still break away.

78PT,
Why did'nt you get vertically above the anchor and "Soak" it up. You would need constant power on to stay vertically above the anchor and I assume that was'nt practical in the strong wind.

What kind of "Danforth" was it? A cheap copy w a steel plate cutout shank or a forged shank and maybe forged flukes as well. From the sound of it you put a lot pull on sideways and should have had a bent shank .. but you only mentioned skewed flukes.

Good short scope performance w Danforths been my experience too. We hung all night in 35 knot winds on a forged shank 13lb Dan. That night all signs suggested benign weather but we were in a blow hole. The name "Windfall Harbor" should have alerted my suspicions .. hmm?
I would have been very comfortable at 4-1 scope in those conditions. But 3-1 is'nt very short scope after Steve's setting vids. I've always been good w 3-1 but most here still think it as "short scope". Some anchors are better at it than others and Danforth is one of those anchors ... IMO.

I might try what was suggested awhile back.

Instead of the wire tie setup that could possibly be an issue....someone suggested tying a length of line, just longer than the water depth to the crown of the anchor and up along the anchor line.

When retrieving the anchor, you just pull this line in separately and if the anchor snags, you now have a trip line already attached that wasn't a hazard to anyone in the anchorage or a danger to your running gear that some always point out.

If weaker than you rode, if it snags and the anchor is free, you can break it. But it should be strong enough to back out a fouled anchor.

Not totally sold but sounds promising.

Here is a vid of the conditions that day.
I did have a hook line on the chain to take the strain off the winch and it too held together. First time I have used such a thing but my other boats didn't have all chain rode.

Nomad Willy said:

78PT,
Why did'nt you get vertically above the anchor and "Soak" it up. You would need constant power on to stay vertically above the anchor and I assume that was'nt practical in the strong wind.

What kind of "Danforth" was it? A cheap copy w a steel plate cutout shank or a forged shank and maybe forged flukes as well. From the sound of it you put a lot pull on sideways and should have had a bent shank .. but you only mentioned skewed flukes.

Good short scope performance w Danforths been my experience too. We hung all night in 35 knot winds on a forged shank 13lb Dan. That night all signs suggested benign weather but we were in a blow hole. The name "Windfall Harbor" should have alerted my suspicions .. hmm?
I would have been very comfortable at 4-1 scope in those conditions. But 3-1 is'nt very short scope after Steve's setting vids. I've always been good w 3-1 but most here still think it as "short scope". Some anchors are better at it than others and Danforth is one of those anchors ... IMO.

Click to expand...

Eric, I tried everything I could think of with what I had. I was right on top of that puppy, bouncing up and down on in the waves, jumping on the chain trying to get it to pop, but until I let out a lot of chain and pulled sideways on it, NADA. I will post a pic of the anchor later.

I have a Danforth S-40# and boy does it hook well in this mud we have around here. We've had some pretty nice days at anchor with only about 15 mph winds and it took being very careful pulling up a couple of times as the bowsprit was flexxing a bit. Just had to sit over it slowly pulling with the windlass until the suction broke. Lots of mud comes up with it. I've been considering using my smaller 22# Danforth for most anchoring unless I'm spending the night or expect some weather.

Kevin

Sweed I have a 22lb Dan w forged shank and forged flukes. The flukes and shank are considerably longer than all the "lesser" Danforths. Haven't used it yet but Steve w Panope tested one that I think is the same. It did quite well as I recall.

If the Dans are'nt up to their frequent mischief or getting plunked down in bad ass seaweed or (mermaid forbid) ell grass they are wonderful. And if one dos'nt set them too deep they probably do veering and reversals well too.

Sweed I'm quite sure you're 22lb Dan would be good for anything up to say 35 knots. Not the cheap Dans though. But they may be good for 25 knots but probably not veering much.

Here is the anchor in question. It weighs 40 lbs., the shank is 1"x1.5". You can see its pretty stout.

psneeld said:

I might try what was suggested awhile back.

Instead of the wire tie setup that could possibly be an issue....someone suggested tying a length of line, just longer than the water depth to the crown of the anchor and up along the anchor line.

When retrieving the anchor, you just pull this line in separately and if the anchor snags, you now have a trip line already attached that wasn't a hazard to anyone in the anchorage or a danger to your running gear that some always point out.

If weaker than you rode, if it snags and the anchor is free, you can break it. But it should be strong enough to back out a fouled anchor.

Not totally sold but sounds promising.

Click to expand...

I like the idea. Makes deploying an all chain road a little more complex. One twist of the chain and it becomes useless wrapped around the chain.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I like the idea. Makes deploying an all chain road a little more complex. One twist of the chain and it becomes useless wrapped around the chain.

Ted

Click to expand...

Has me a little worried to...but maybe just steady tension will resolve the twist as it passes the roller before the wildcat.

First attempt might be not much more than twine and in a wide open anchorage.....just in case a knife is needed.

Those Danforths bring up too much mud and pinch my fingers. Weren't they developed for using from landing craft on sandy beaches? Ds are too much for heavy mud. Claws work better for me in such circumstances. ... Hey! Saw a Rocna at Vallejo's K dock last Sunday!

Just picked up a near new Danforth Hi Tensile H20 anchor at Marine Supply in Anacortes for about half the new price. Said to be good for a 50' boat in 20 knot winds with rope and chain rode. Should be a good fit for this boat.

78puget-trawler said:

Here is the anchor in question. It weighs 40 lbs., the shank is 1"x1.5". You can see its pretty stout.

Click to expand...

Anyone know what make of anchor this is? Its not marked Danforth or anything else.

You've got to be kidding 78. One inch thick?
I have a 35lb Dan that's heavy construction (IMO) w a 3/4" thick shank. It's probably mild steel though as the shank is obviously cut out of steel plate. But it could be high carbon ... I don't know. I could test it but have other priorities. Unlike the high performance Danforth brand anchors this one is/was made by a marine salvage co. and has a low aspect ratio.

But re your specific anchor I've not seen one like that. Don't recognize that tag line D ring and see no other distinctive features. One distinctive feature you should eliminate is the bent stock. And in the process the flukes should be aligned by the same bending. Danforth anchors need to be straight ... from what I hear. I've never used a bent one because of that. And using it you may have better luck setting it light.

If I pull it off here are some pics of my HP 22lb Danforth and my regular high end Danforth. Look at the shank length and width. Notice the bent flanges only on one side of the cheaper 18lb anchor flukes. The best Dan anchor has forged fluke flanges on both sides. The shank is longer, stronger and thinner. That clearly be seen in the pics. But these are the best Dans made. The cheaper ones are not of much value as anchors so I hear and read but these high performance Dans are quite good .. if all goes well.

Did'nt go well. I'll retake pics w proper camera and i-mac.
Went fine w proper camera and computer.
Notice strong serious shank stop in pics 1,3 and 5. See in pics 3,4,5 and six the wide and rugged shank end at the stock. The forged fluke inbd edges are much more knife like than the bent over plate in the cheap anchor. This "cheap" anchor is the best compared to all other Danforth anchors that I know of. But the best Dan can be found as in pics #1,2,3,5,7 and 10.

This of course excludes the Fortress line.

No, not kidding. Its one inch thick by about one and half inches. Weight on my home scale about 40#. Interestingly, there is another identical anchor on another CHB on my dock, same anchor. I wanted to replace the hardware between chain and anchor a while back and had to buy an oversized shackle to fit over that humongous shank. With this anchor I got today I can dispense with it and go with a normal size shackle.

"Murphy says you probably won't rig it when you will need it."

Rigged properly it is set to go 100% of the time with no effort.

Lower the anchor it gets pulled off by the anchor.

On deck unlowered it is still useful as a lead line.

Eric, the 20-H I got yesterday is exactly like yours, even has the little white rubber ends. I am keeping the "monsta" for a spare storm anchor. It has the same fluke style as the 20H with the welded flange instead of the bends. I note also there is two other boats on C dock with that same monsta anchor. I think the 20-H will work out well.

The H series is probably the best series to chose.20H 35H 60H 90H

The S is fine for lunch.

IMO

FF,
The better Dan in my pics is an "H" series?
And the bent flange guy an "S"?
Sounds like you know your Dans.
What else can you tell ....?

78puget-trawler said:

My poor Lofrans was getting hot and working its arse off tying to get that anchor up.

Click to expand...

Poor Lofrans indeed! I think it is poor practice to break out the anchor that way and it said so right in the manual for the Lofrans I bought for my last boat.

I use Mantus anchors which I love but which are the very dickens to break out. (If an anchor is going to have a flaw, that should be the one.) I keep a chain hook on a short line handy. SOP is to pull the anchor to straight up and down, put this line on, and back off the chain a few inches. In calmer conditions and open anchorages, I often do this before breakfast. I then break the anchor out under power. With the Mantus, I usually see the bow go down a few inches and then bob back up when the anchor breaks out. Bump the chain in a few inches, remove the chain hook, and retrieve. Doing it this way every time saves strain on the windlass and keeps it a smooth and practiced operation.

Roger Long said:

Poor Lofrans indeed! I think it is poor practice to break out the anchor that way and it said so right in the manual for the Lofrans I bought for my last boat.

I use Mantus anchors which I love but which are the very dickens to break out. (If an anchor is going to have a flaw, that should be the one.) I keep a chain hook on a short line handy. SOP is to pull the anchor to straight up and down, put this line on, and back off the chain a few inches. In calmer conditions and open anchorages, I often do this before breakfast. I then break the anchor out under power. With the Mantus, I usually see the bow go down a few inches and then bob back up when the anchor breaks out. Bump the chain in a few inches, remove the chain hook, and retrieve. Doing it this way every time saves strain on the windlass and keeps it a smooth and practiced operation.

Click to expand...

I like that. Seems so simple and I never thought to do that. Thanks.

That spot you were anchored in didn't look very protected. I know that was an uncomfortable day. I hate sitting on anchor and bouncing around like that all day. A few hours is my max. I've been there and I have a Danforth. They stick well.

Your new one is better suited for your boat in my opinion.

There have been threads (maybe on cruisersforum) on rigging methods and devices that can be used to get a retrieval line to the "heel" of the anchor. I might go back and have a look at those.