Sun shade mesh fabrics

Hi All,

I have decided that I want to make some shade screens for the PH. They will go on the inside for a variety of reasons and I will be making them myself.

At this point I am trying to decide on which material to go with, there are two contenders.

Phifertex Mesh, 70% shading
Textiline 80, 80% shading

Obviously, the more the shading the less visibility outside. For this reason I am not considering the Phifertex or Textiline mesh products that have 90% shading. I am concerned about not enough visibility when looking through them from the inside (or my wife is concerned).

So, who has either of the two products above and what is your impression of;
1. How effective are they in cutting down the heat inside your boat.
2. How is the visibility looking out from the boat on a sunny day.

If you could let me know what color of mesh fabric you have it would be helpful. Darker colors will absorb more heat, but will give better visibility looking through it.

1) very
2) not safe for navigation

Is there a reason for being on the inside? I would wonder if exterior would be better so that the glass didn't heat up and generate heat into the boat after being removed.

Gmarr said:

Is there a reason for being on the inside? I would wonder if exterior would be better so that the glass didn't heat up and generate heat into the boat after being removed.

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Yes and yes. I would prefer to put something on the outside, and may end up doing that some day, but until then I have to negotiate with she-who-must-be-obeyed.

caltexflanc said:

1) very
2) not safe for navigation

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Which have you used, either of those or the Phifertex Plus or Textiline 90?

I used Phifertex (came with boat when I bought it) and a friend had something very similar to the Texline, and perhaps that is what it was. I have been on several other Phifertex equipped boats as well.

Not only is either hard to see out in direct sun (and impossible at night with any interior light), it is impossible for someone on the bow, say a line or anchor handler to see in. Since it was very easy to remove in a minute or two, no big deal. Both mounted on the outside by the way inside mounting would have been very awkward to handle. Yes, I have seen boats that left it on all the time when underway and it made me cringe.

I am glad we had the screen.

Thanks George. I am thinking of using it on the side windows while underway, but not on the forward windows. On of the reasons I am looking at the less shading options than the 90%, to get more visibility outside. Inside mounting on my boat would actually be pretty easy, but hardly ideal as far as heat reduction.

The darker the color the better the visibility in daylight. The dark color reflects back less light. The lighter color would soak up heat less, but will reflect more light, reducing the ability to see through it from the inside.

I disagree with George on point 2.

Depending on the weave of the mesh, you can see out of them well enough to navigate. WHEN they are mounted on the outside of a window.

If you're going to mount them on the inside, which I've done, not so much.

If you're going to mount them on the insides of the windows consider useing suction cups to stick them to the glass so you can take them down quickly and easily. Plus you don't have to drive snaps into the wood work around the windows or run hook & loop tape everywhere.

Dave...

check out Rochford Supply

I've used their 10 oz Snyder PVC coated mesh - seconds for outside sun screens for many satisfied customers and myself

I recommend white and have always put it outside.
I'd guess it somewhere in that same 70 - 80 shade value. They will send a sample if you request it.
I don't think you'll beat or come close to the price of their seconds and honestly nothing major as far as defects that I've run across - buy a few extra Yds and look it ove / cut around anything that you might find.

I usually use the mesh material as the edge - make a pattern out of plastic sheet and cut the material 3" oversize - mark the pattern outline - fold edge to the pattern line (using up half of the 3" extra) then fold again and you should be finished to your pattern line and stitch each side of the 1-1/2 hem. You have 3 layers around the edge for attaching any attachment method you choose - I lke and use snaps - velcro will work but doesn't last nearly as well as snaps

I think our windshield covers give us about a 10* lower temp when the sun is hitting the windshield...very noticeably better as soon as you put them up

Thanks for the great info Bacchus. I am still negotiating with my wife. Just when I think I have her pinned down it changes. I think I just need to use the magic fastening system that has no snaps, no grommets, no Velcro, or no dual lock fasteners. It would just magically attach to the wood window frames all by itself. ?

Ahhh...you need a wood magnet!

I have exterior mounted screens (brand unknown) that I'd estimate at 70-75% light filtering. They're burgundy in color. Here's a picture I took this week from inside during mid-afternoon. Visibility is restricted, but usable in full sun IF DRY. Once they get wet, it's impossible to see through them. I've had to remove them underway for that reason. My current MO is to remove them before casting off, if possible...and if I remember.

BTW, I never leave them on the windshield when underway....EVER!

EDIT: I have learned from the PO since posting this that this is Phifertex fabric.

A minor digression, has anyone used dual lock fasteners such as 3M Extreme ? I just hate drilling holes in the gel coat for screwed- in snaps. Outside in my case.
Thanks

SailorGreg said:

A minor digression, has anyone used dual lock fasteners such as 3M Extreme ?

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I use them to hold a Laminar Lip (screen extension) on my motorcycle.
Cops 100kph plus winds no problems

Capt.Bill11 said:

I disagree with George on point 2.

Depending on the weave of the mesh, you can see out of them well enough to navigate. WHEN they are mounted on the outside of a window.

If you're going to mount them on the inside, which I've done, not so much.

If you're going to mount them on the insides of the windows consider useing suction cups to stick them to the glass so you can take them down quickly and easily. Plus you don't have to drive snaps into the wood work around the windows or run hook & loop tape everywhere.

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Well I suppose to each his own on what constitutes acceptable visibility. I need all I can get, and not just forward of the helm.

I'd recommend getting swatches and seeing for oneself. The sun will hit from several different angles in the course of a cruise. Ours were on the windshield only as we had covered side decks and tinted windows.

The PO installed similar protection on the outside. I feel it has saved the original plastic frame Windows and Lexan Windows on the boat. The Windows show NO crazing and the frames are in great shape.

We have black Textilene mesh mounted outside our tinted front saloon windshield. Can't remember what % of shading, at least 80% and more likely 90%.


It does a good job of cutting down the heat. We only mount it in the hottest months, though (usually July and August), because I like better visibility from within the saloon when weather is cool enough to allow that.


We have no lower helm, so visibility for navigation isn't a concern. My take on it is that we could see well enough to avoid large obstacles, but not smaller stuff like crab pot warps. (Couldn't see those -- if close up -- from inside the cabin anyway, though; angle not right.)


Can't see out as much at night, other than lighted objects and building and so forth. People outside can see in, if our interior (saloon, etc.) lights are on.


-Chris

We've made Pfifertex in forest green and can be seen through easily. I wouldn't navigate in anything but broad daylight though.

dhays said:

I think I just need to use the magic fastening system that has no snaps, no grommets, no Velcro, or no dual lock fasteners.
?

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Dave
If you want minimum fasteners - I'd say exterior and one piece windshield vs individual sections... I've done some that way for others / myself (previous boat)...by wrapping around the front / side sections it "self supports" to some degree needing many fewer attachments - Min probably top center on front and top + bot at the end of the side window - lots of times I start w/ the fewest and add if/where req'd.
My "customers" are neighbors in my marina so I can respond to their inputs and desire to add easily - in this case "less is more"

Like everything else boating - there are compromises - one piece vs sections - fewer fasteners, fewer pieces to put up / take down, larger pieces to store, less flexibility to uncover one section for visibility
Similar +/- inside vs outside - I'm assuming you have pretty good access to the inside of all your windows? or you wouldn't consider it - my current boat would be a pain to do inside.

Actually screw in snap studs in wood should do minimum damage - I don't like drilling & screwing into painted alum frames unless necessary as it damages the paint barrier and more likely to corrode and/or result in paint peel around the fastener. Not a problem w/ wood and when you need to refinish unscrew them and reinstall when done w/ prep & finish...at least that's my vote

If you haven't already take a Look at the DIY Canvas Tips, Tricks, Recommendations You may find some tips helpful - if you have questions as you go post them there for all to benefit.

There is also one I started...
DIY Canvas - Show Off Your Projects - take some pics along the way / finished and share your project

Good luck w/ "negotiations" w/the Admiral and keep us posted

We just made up some Phifertex screens... Very easy to do and sewable on a home machine. One fold, double stitch. The fronts seem to cut the temps at least 10 degrees and attenuates the sunlight nicely. My boat was like a terrarium without screens.. Visibility from the inside out is actually quite good and I'm tending to leave them in place as I generally drive from the bridge. Finished up the shades for the side windows this week and will install Friday. Luckily I was able to replace the side window fasteners with snap bases, so no drilling needed. Front snap mounts were already there for the previous sunbrella cover so no new holes. The whole project will be less than $200 including material (onlinefabrics.com), snaps, snap tool, polyester thread (Amazon, Sailrite)etc.

Sewed this recently out of 90% Phifertex. It is replacing a solid white Stamoid cover that had seen better days. Let's in just the right amount of light and you can still see through it. My wife says it makes the salon less like a cave now. We really like it.

Heat transfer is low. Really about the same as the solid original white cover. However we already had 3M film on the glass. You should get some samples that are big enough to tell what you think. Buy a yard of each. Then you will definitely know what you/she likes. Money well spent.

caltexflanc said:

Well I suppose to each his own on what constitutes acceptable visibility. I need all I can get, and not just forward of the helm.

I'd recommend getting swatches and seeing for oneself. The sun will hit from several different angles in the course of a cruise. Ours were on the windshield only as we had covered side decks and tinted windows.

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Just to clerify, I'm not advocating running with them on your lower helm full time if you're going to be operating the boat from below.

But I've found, again depending on the weave, that the view out can be acceptable for operating the boat for at least a short time.

There is no way to tell what will be acceptable yo you till you have them on and can look out through them.

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Great information. The pictures are really helpful as well as the suggestions.

Last night I think I convinced my wife to let me put the screen over the outside of the Windows. ?

The thing that did it for her was the ability to use YKK Snads for the ousted snap studs. She really didn't want me drilling holes in the gelcoat. The YKK Snad is simply a snap stud with 3M VHB adhesive on the back. It is strong enough to do the job if applied properly and can be removed if you change your mind down the road.
http://www.ykkfastening.com/products/snap_button/others/snad.html

Practical Sailor did a review on the 3M Dual Lock fasteners. They were quite positive on them. Again with the 3M adhesive you need to follow directions and let it cure, but then it really holds well.

So now the plan is to make and mount the screens on the outside and likely use the 25mm clear Snad studs. The suggestion to get a yard of each of the materials is a good one. That way I can show my wife on the boat.

Dave, I suggest you stay away from the clear Snad studs. I installed them in my boat, and after less than 12 months of use the Snad studs delaminated under UV exposure in the Chesapeake. They did not peel off where the 3M VHB tape sticks to the gelcoat, but the studs themselves delaminated into two pieces, i.e., the tape still stuck to the gelcoat, but the rest of the clear Snad separated from the tape. After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
Po
Nine Dragons More

NDM said:

After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
Po
Nine Dragons More

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I've never used the Snads but do know that even white zippers don't stand up to UV as well as black... Not the answer you wanted Dave but just my $0.02 FWIW

What are your outside window frames made of?

Have you considered window tinting instead? 3M has a (pretty expensive) film that greatly reduces heat gain while having very little effect on visibility. I had the entire boat done, even the front windows. I was concerned about reduced vision at night but I cannot notice any loss of vision.


Only 3M authorized dealers have access to this product.

NDM said:

Dave, I suggest you stay away from the clear Snad studs. I installed them in my boat, and after less than 12 months of use the Snad studs delaminated under UV exposure in the Chesapeake. They did not peel off where the 3M VHB tape sticks to the gelcoat, but the studs themselves delaminated into two pieces, i.e., the tape still stuck to the gelcoat, but the rest of the clear Snad separated from the tape. After that experience, I am thinking that the white Snads would be better because it is still somewhat inconspicuous, yet would block the UV. But I haven't tested my theory yet.
Po
Nine Dragons More

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Good info, thanks. I am surprised. I know that Sailrite has been using them for a while.

WesK said:

Have you considered window tinting instead? 3M has a (pretty expensive) film that greatly reduces heat gain while having very little effect on visibility. I had the entire boat done, even the front windows. I was concerned about reduced vision at night but I cannot notice any loss of vision.


Only 3M authorized dealers have access to this product.

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Yes, I have considered it and may do that as well at some point. Cost would be an issue of course. It would need to be professionally installed as it is not something that I would like to tackle given the shape and location of some of the windows.

We have mesh screens. Not sure the make or weave. They are mounted on the outside with twist snaps that are screwed into the PH roof augmented with 4200. They work well, but I take them completely off when travelling. Note that you want to ensure that you use the "twist" latches. From experience, I can tell you the "snaps" can release in a strong wind. We lost some coverings as a result.

But the big improvement we made this year are the zip-up screens on the Pilothouse doors. They keep the bugs outside and the cat inside on hot days and we use them while underway. It's a huge improvement.



Jim
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JDCAVE said:

We have mesh screens. Not sure the make or weave. They are mounted on the outside with twist snaps that are screwed into the PH roof augmented with 4200. They work well, but I take them completely off when travelling. Note that you want to ensure that you use the "twist" latches. From experience, I can tell you the "snaps" can release in a strong wind. We lost some coverings as a result.

But the big improvement we made this year are the zip-up screens on the Pilothouse doors. They keep the bugs outside and the cat inside on hot days and we use them while underway. It's a huge improvement. We had a bunch of screens made up this year for various portlights and window coverings and the total,cost was just under $1 (boat dollar).

Jim
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Click to expand...

Jim
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