Fletcher500
Guru
i have seen pre filled out contracts you can keep on board when push comes to shove. But as noted, if you are sinking, on fire, or whatever, it's best to just sign on the dotted line and hope for the best.
The friendly tow company (well used to this situation) relocated the vessels to spare moorings and charged each boat a salvage fee of about 10% of perceived value.
Seems like not all pirates are restricted to the the Somalia coast.
The drama continues. When our boat took on water as described in previous posts, Tow Boat Us/George Bruton was called to St James Marina in Southport NC to assist with our boat we were under the impression the boat would have the water pumped out and we authorized the towing of our boat to Southport Marina so it could be hauled out for inspection and any damage repaired. We told them we had towing insurance through TowBoat US. We received a bill for $9500 from Mr Bruton and told us it was for salvage. We under no circumstance agreed to salvage. He said it didn't matter it was salvage. On top of that because Mr Bruton put it down as salvage our TowBoat US will not cover any of the towing. I was extremely distressed by the bill and said it was not the issue of paying any bill but we are talking less than 4 hours to pump out, tow the boat 5 miles to Southport and the marina lifting the boat out of the water. Mr Bruton after I threatened to pursue legal intervention immediately reduced the bill to $5250. We asked to have him send the new revised bill to us before we make payment. Payment is not an issue. He is refusing to send, or email the revised bill. He has now threatened to have the US Marshall seize the boat unless we pay the $5250 immediately otherwise he is putting the price back to $9500. We need a bill showing the revised amount. We are afraid if we pay him the $5250 without a copy of the revised amount he will then try to pursue the balance of the $9500. Suggestions??????
It absolutely was in danger of sinking and smashing herself to death with resulting fuel spill on an exposed coast.I guess the main issue was the boat in danger of sinking or not? Was it listing? If yes you owe the salvage.
Towboat US is not towing insurance, it's a membership.
I would think it'd be easy to think that something like the "Unlimited Gold" water towing option BoatUS offers -- for $$$ -- is "insurance." It's different from BoatUS membership, different from the limited towing benefit that comes with a basic BoatUS membership.
I don't see much difference in the "towing" wording between BoatUS and our insurance policy. (We have both.)
Not necessarily germane to the situation here (I can't seem to grasp the order of events, who did what to whom, who said what when, etc.), just an observation...
-Chris
They pumped out the water. It had about 24" in engine room. Then towed it to Southport Marina. About 5 miles. Zimmermans Marine pulled it from the water and put it up on the hard. It is dry now, and a diesel mechanic pumped oil into the engines and generator.
My eyes and head hurts reading this.
To the OP.....
I would stop dealing with the tower and contact just BOATUS insurance.
What has the adjuster said?
Or am I missing the fact that BoatUS is refusing the claim?
If they are, and you have a bill that discusses a pump used on your boat, I would be asking for supervisors at BoatUS till their ears bled.
Pump = salvage = hull insurance.
They try to get out of that and I would be hugely suprised.
You are on the hook for the salvage bill...but till I got the OK from the hull insurance for covering the salvage bill in full...I would be hesitant to lay the higher of the two. $5000 plus or minus is a really good price for pumping out a boat your size and towing it....
Paying that $5250 would keep your boat free in all likelyhood and the rest could be settled later with the savlor if not recognizing that as paid in full and whack in BoatUS for making this hard (if they have) when most of the time, the owner usually is barely involved.
I can't believe there is a disconnect between hull insurance and salvor towing, I don't think you are supposed to get jammed up there, BoatUS insurance must pay for towing in at least some cases as they paid Sea Tow as far as I know when we did their salvages.
I think there are some HUGE communication issues here...not sure where, but most salvages just like this go smoothly.
One question, did the towing company say up front this is salvage? If not, and you didn't sign a thing before the boat was moved....get a lawyer, you may owe nothing unless you get taken to court for time and materials...which will probably work out to the $5250...I will guess the rest was padding. And probably what the lawyer will charge too....
I've been asking the question about insurance and not yet seen an answer. Maybe I overlooked it. Did he say he had insurance on his boat through Boat US? That's my question is does he have insurance and, if so, doesn't it include salvage?
I've been asking the question about insurance and not yet seen an answer. Maybe I overlooked it. Did he say he had insurance on his boat through Boat US? That's my question is does he have insurance and, if so, doesn't it include salvage?
Oooops...reread post #1. Finally absorbed the one sentence.
Looks like no hull insurance....
.
Yes, I just reread that but the one he hasn't answered is liability or if there was any salvage insurance, but I'm assuming the answer is "no." Everytime I see people talking about no insurance, I think of cases like this as instead of $5500, it would be very easy to have a $50,000 bill. Just takes a small environmental issue.
We've been told by Tow BoatUs even though we have unlimited gold towing that any tow that involves engine trouble, taking on water, grounding or fire will always be considered salvage and will not be paid for at all and will always result in a bill of many thousands of dollars. Can anyone tell me any situation that tow boat would pay for? When did this change? Fifteen years ago I had my 50' ketch towed w engines problems and it was totally paid for by towboat us. When did this change? Today I can see no circumstance that TowBoatUs towing would pay for anything.
We've been told by Tow BoatUs even though we have unlimited gold towing that any tow that involves engine trouble, taking on water, grounding or fire will always be considered salvage and will not be paid for at all and will always result in a bill of many thousands of dollars. Can anyone tell me any situation that tow boat would pay for? When did this change? Fifteen years ago I had my 50' ketch towed w engines problems and it was totally paid for by towboat us. When did this change? Today I can see no circumstance that TowBoatUs towing would pay for anything.
We've been told by Tow BoatUs even though we have unlimited gold towing that any tow that involves engine trouble, taking on water, grounding or fire will always be considered salvage and will not be paid for at all and will always result in a bill of many thousands of dollars. Can anyone tell me any situation that tow boat would pay for? When did this change? Fifteen years ago I had my 50' ketch towed w engines problems and it was totally paid for by towboat us. When did this change? Today I can see no circumstance that TowBoatUs towing would pay for anything.
We've been told by Tow BoatUs even though we have unlimited gold towing that any tow that involves engine trouble, taking on water, grounding or fire will always be considered salvage and will not be paid for at all and will always result in a bill of many thousands of dollars. Can anyone tell me any situation that tow boat would pay for? When did this change? Fifteen years ago I had my 50' ketch towed w engines problems and it was totally paid for by towboat us. When did this change? Today I can see no circumstance that TowBoatUs towing would pay for anything.
Interesting. Are there rules determining the amount a salvor can charge? I get the impression people in a salvage situation, desperate as they may be, see themselves unempowered in terms of making arrangements, a sort of: "Agree or Sink" situation.
Can the charge a salvor seeks to recover be taken to a tribunal to determine its reasonableness, or is "reasonableness" not a consideration?
In Equity Courts (colloquially called"The Whispering Jurisdiction"here for its gentle ways of proceeding) it was said the relief available varied with the length of the Equity Chancellors foot; in other words it was a highly subjective determination.
Is the determiner here the salvor, or are there rules?
Non lawyer here, but have been around a bunch of marine salvage cases. As I understand it, to claim salvage, there must be a peril.
If you have water in your bilge, and the pump does not work, but no further water is entering, there is no peril and thus no salvage. Otherwise any mechanic that fixes a failed pump could make such a claim. Does not matter if there is 100gal in bilge, or three ounces.
If the water is flooding in, TB puts pumps in and prevents a sinking, that is a salvage.
Whenever dealing with a potential salvage, try to get an agreement on the spot what the fee will be for the service. I did this with a slip tenant whose sailboat was blown up in the surf line on the beach. I run over on a skiff and TB and BUS were both there, not connected. Boat owner was freaking out and unable to negotiate. I acted as his agent. I skiff'd over to the two tow boats and a little bidding war ensued. Final bid was $1300, which I thought was fair. I told the winning bidder to proceed with getting the boat off the beach, and owner concurred on the radio. Boat was pulled off with no damage beyond a little rash. Owner paid the tow boat the agreed fee and no salvage claims were made, as far as I know.