Watermakers

OK Guys,
I am seriously thinking of cutting down my fresh water tanks , to make a bit more room in my lazerette and installing a RO watermaker.
Presently I carry 2000 lts FW (500 gal) in 2 s/s tanks.
I could cut these down to 2 x 100 gal (400 lts ) each and install a 60 to 120 lt/hr ( 15 to 30 gal/hr) water maker. Basic operation unit is all that is required and 240 V as I have a 9 KVA gen set plus a 5 KVA main engine driven generator.
What brands do you reccommend or have had experience with.
I have operated a few very large RO units in my time and have a couple of locally made units I can pick from but with the strong Aus dollar US units are also reasonably priced.
Normally I wouldn't bother but future cruising has me looking at some fairly remote locations such as Far North Queensland and the Kimberleys in West Australia. (no bastard for miles and miles)

Benn

Hi there Benn. Have a look at the units that these guys in Opua New Zealand make.

http://www.opuamarinerefits.co.nz/stainlessfabrication.html

Had a look at them recently and will be installing one in the near future. They are good strong simple units, with very few fiddly parts to break. We looked at a number of units on the market, very few seemed user friendly in the servicing side and were more suited to the euroswoop plastic fantastics who call in a technician to dust the galley steps.

Have a look at the link, maybe its what you are looking for.
Cheers

Before purchasing any RO system be sure to obtain the maint book.

Some of RO units require a huge amount of service when NOT in constant use.

Before RO ,there was a vacuum distilation method using exhaust heat from the propulsion or noisemaker exhaust.

Don't know the output , but understand they were EZ to live with.

FF

Benn,

I can thoroughly recommend Watermakers Inc of Ft. Lauderdale. Equipment, parts and service are excellent. I don't know what the export/dealership arrangements are with Australia, but I guess you do. My experience with their WMS-600 unit over the last 5 years was that these things are highly reliable if used regularly. The following suggestions are extracts from a previous post of mine. Sounds like you know all/most of it already.

1) Get the modular setup where you put the filters, pump, membrane, etc where space permits. It's cheaper and the advantages are obvious.

2) Avoid the electronic gizmo which tests the product water and prevents it going into the tanks if it is too salty. Run the desalinator for 10 minutes with the selector valve set to "Overboard" and then taste the product. If it tastes good, turn the valve to "Tanks".

3) Get clear filter bowls for the coarse and fine sea water filters so you can see what's going on in there. Order the plastic bowl-wrench. Space the filters away from the bulkhead and far enough off the deck that you can get a drip-tray underneath when changing elements.

4) Membranes last many years if you keep them clean. Get the fresh-water-flush option and flush the system with water from the boat's tanks once a week. Chlorine KILLS membranes and city water contains chlorine. To counteract this, the fresh-flush system includes an activated charcoal filter which removes the chlorine. Just remember to change the charcoal filter every 4 months.

5) Watermakers use ten times as much water as they make and tend to starve anything else connected to the same thru-hull. So, if possible, connect the watermaker to its own thru-hull. Starving something like a main engine, generator or an a/c unit can be expensive!

6) You probably need a lift pump; the sediment filters and pressure pump do not self-prime very well. Locate the lift-pump as close to the thru-hull as possible. Fit a sea-strainer to prevent crud getting into the pump.

7) Fit Y-valves as vents before the filters and before the membrane unit. This lets you "burp" the system without pushing air into the membranes.

Mike

Gammelvind wrote:

Hi there Benn. Have a look at the units that these guys in Opua New Zealand make.

http://www.opuamarinerefits.co.nz/stainlessfabrication.html

Had a look at them recently and will be installing one in the near future. They are good strong simple units, with very few fiddly parts to break. We looked at a number of units on the market, very few seemed user friendly in the servicing side and were more suited to the euroswoop plastic fantastics who call in a technician to dust the galley steps.

Have a look at the link, maybe its what you are looking for.
Cheers

Click to expand...

Opuamarine refits homepage does not work. I think this is the new page for their good simple water makers: http://198.104.61.134/electric.html

FF wrote:
Before RO ,there was a vacuum distilation method using exhaust heat from the propulsion or noisemaker exhaust.

Don't know the output , but understand they were EZ to live with.

FF

Click to expand...

Fred, I've heard of this before. If you or anyone has any information about this system, I would be very interested to learn about it. I also have heard it is simple and almost maintenance free, the only problem is it gives hot water.

DCBD wrote:
FF wrote:
Before RO ,there was a vacuum distilation method using exhaust heat from the propulsion or noisemaker exhaust.

Don't know the output , but understand they were EZ to live with.

FF

Click to expand...

Fred, I've heard of this before. If you or anyone has any information about this system, I would be very interested to learn about it. I also have heard it is simple and almost maintenance free, the only problem is it gives hot water.



<h1>those old school " watermakers" were huge... about the same size of as a generator...weigh hundreds of pounds..* and they needed to be cleaned out on a regular basis.* There is a reason that r.o. is the way to go.* We had put over 1200 hrs on our small power survivor and only had to do a seal kit once.* The systems that use a cat pump are very bullet proof... just flush them with fresh water that it has produced... don't feel it oily water... and they last a long time.* We spend time on a charter yacht in the BVI and they run one of their two watermakers at least 8 hrs a day... for about 300 days a year. I know they are on their second season on membranes. These are 80 gph watermakers!.* Keep the system simple and you will be pleased</h1>HOLLYWOOD

I am planning on installing a Katadyn water maker soon and the manual says NOT to plumb the fresh water line to your tanks so in the event of a failure, you will not contaminate your existing water supply. They recommend using portable pails to catch the water produced.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Some watermakers*monitor the "quality " of the water and the "efficiency" of the water maker when it operates. If any bad signs show up*it shuts down or goes to bypass mode. I choose to not have one since we can get to fresh water at least*every 10 days*in the PNW. If I did have one, it would be a 20 to 30 gph 110V unit which only runs when the genset is running, usually*for an*hour in the morning and evening, or longer if we are washing clothes.

If all elese fails, use buckets which the Admiral can manage as you noted. Nothing like exercise to keep the crew happy!

Marinetrader,

The fresh water output line on my Katadyn 40E is plumbed to a three-way valve supplied with the watermaker.* When I start it up the valve is set to run the product water overboard through reject line to the sink drain.* After the few minutes necessary for salt to pack the membrane enough to achieve the super-fine filtering which removes salt from the water, I switch the valve to direct the product water to the FW tank.*

I added another valve to allow me to direct the product water to a line that allows me to test the product water before directing it to the FW tank.* I usually just taste test it, but you can also use a TDS meter.

Bigger fancier watermakers may do some of this automatically, but my tiny one is all manual.* It works just fine.


-- Edited by RCook on Monday 25th of April 2011 07:20:18 AM

RCook,

OK, so you DO direct fresh water directly to your tanks. Wonder why the Katadyn people offer other advice?

marinetrader wrote:
RCook,

OK, so you DO direct fresh water directly to your tanks. Wonder why the Katadyn people offer other advice?

Click to expand...

*If the unit does not have a salinity alarm that would explain it.* Most units how have a simple EC circuit that detects when the conductivity of the water flowing past the sensor exceeds that of potable water, shutting down the pump in the most basic configuration, or diverting the water to overflow if more elaborate.* These are not expensive or complex sensors, so I'm not sure why a unit would lack one unless it was a completely manual unit, including the pump.

*

Why does Katadyn documentation suggest otherwise?*

I haven't seen the particular doc that was mentioned, but I remember spending half an hour on the phone with their (PUR's at the time - 13 years ago) tech support trying to understand and make some additions and corrections to the owner's manual that came with my 40E.* It was not particularly well-written or edited.


-- Edited by RCook on Tuesday 26th of April 2011 09:04:11 AM

No the Katadyn unit does not have a salinity alarm; the operators manual is where I am reading the installation advice. By the way, it also says not to install the unit in the engine room to avoid high heat. Where do you have your installed?

Mine's under the cabin sole, right near the water tank and other plumbing.

here is the best description I have seen of how to build a watermaker:

http://www.westward-ii.com/PDF's/How%20to%20build%20your%20own%20watermaker.pdf

*Link doesn't work , so here is where to find it:

www.westward-ii.com, check the helpful info,the middle of the page has a box with water water water, check the 2 DIY links embedded in the article.



-- Edited by Singleprop on Monday 2nd of May 2011 09:49:48 PM



-- Edited by Singleprop on Monday 2nd of May 2011 09:53:21 PM


-- Edited by Singleprop on Monday 2nd of May 2011 09:54:37 PM

Have a Katadyn 80E unit on order; thanks for your input RCook

Well the water maker is installed but have come upon a slight problem.

I must install a line to dump the brine water overboard. I rather not put in a new thru-hull.

I was going to tap into the bath sink drain but the hose is a 1-1/4 inch line and I cannot find a 1-1/4 - 1/2 Tee anywhere.

Any suggestions?

marinetrader wrote:
Well the water maker is installed but have come upon a slight problem.

I must install a line to dump the brine water overboard. I rather not put in a new thru-hull.

I was going to tap into the bath sink drain but the hose is a 1-1/4 inch line and I cannot find a 1-1/4 - 1/2 Tee anywhere.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Take a look at a branch tailpiece.* They are use to hook up dishwashers to sink drains.*

Yep, got me a tailpiece today; think that might just do the trick

Well I finally got the entire system plumbed and hooked up; it works GREAT. I learned a a lot about water makers in the process. If anyone is contemplating an installation, feel free to call on me.

I had a water-maker for years on my sport fisher and loved it. It was a pretty neat feeling when the boat was finally weened off the shore water & making her own. One thing I had was a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter that confirmed that the water-maker had done its job. I still have it to ride herd on the water I carry in my 100 gal tank.

tds tester - Google Search

II have a meter but prefer to use my taste