Krogen Manatee - Seaworthy??

Northern Spy said:

In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.

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Made me laugh!

Barefootshoes, we've owned our Manatee for three years now and I can honestly say that in it's size class there isn't another boat that would even interest me now.

We've been out in some rough water such as 4 to 5 foot head seas and up to 10 foot stern seas and not once was I concerned about stability. Anything over 3 feet to the beam is going to shake you up, but having said that, I've also been out in a Nordic Tug, a 42 Krogen and a Grand Banks and didn't find either of those boats to be any more comfortable, but they do have the advantage (in beam seas) of a lower helm station. As far as the ride in the cabin area, I haven't found any significant difference.

Manatees seem to be mostly found in Florida and area, I only know of 3 others in my area, one of them has been to Alaska twice and around Vancouver Island, as has mine. This probably says more about the skipper than the boat. These trips are often made in smaller and less suitable boats without trouble, but I'm willing to bet that any boat/owner on this forum could find themselves in a lot of trouble on either of these trips if not using good seamanship. Personally, I would have no reservations about taking our boat anywhere we wanted to go. We range from the Southern Gulf Islands to Desolation Sound and have never been afraid to move from place to place.

Marin points to the lack of side decks as a disadvantage in docking situations, but in my opinion there is no lack of side decks at all, I have 360° access from the upper deck, this is the easiest boat to put at the dock I've ever operated. I just pull up to the dock, my wife steps off and onto the dock, secures the stern line while I keep control of the bow, when she's ready I hand her the bow line. I've even done it by myself a few times just using a single line fastened at the center cleat, have to move fast though. When it's time to set the anchor or grab a buoy, I'm just a few steps away, I can do it all myself, easily.

From an operators perspective you have a clear 360° viewing area, which in my case is fully enclosed and heated, lots of room for electronics that can be arranged without looking cluttered up. I'm out of the sun in the summer and warm and dry in the winter.

The living quarters are where the Manatee really shines, there just simply is no other boat in it's size class that could beat the Manatee in comfort, I've been on many boats at boat shows and still have not found one that compares in interior space or practical design. Krogen did a wonderful job of building the boats using teakwood for the walls with a fibreglass ceiling with teak trim. Access to the engine and machinery spaces is not that difficult.

Ugly, well to each his own. I admit I wasn't too enthused with it's awkward looking appearance at first, but my wife liked it so much we bought it. Since then it has grown on me and I now see it a a beautiful thing, and I'm not alone, we have many people come to us and comment on it.

And a 15 knot wind is too much for a Manatee, come on. Mine must be exceptional, I've been out in 30-35 knots, and no grey hair.

So to sum it up, we love this boat. It handles well in all conditions, I wouldn't want to be out in any weather heavier than described above anyway and I have no fear of any destination on the west coast that might interest me. It docks and anchors easy and has lots of open area on the upper deck. The back porch on the lower deck is admired by anyone who has stopped to talk and have a look. It's quiet, fuel efficient, holds 290 gallons of fuel and 300 gallons of water. What more could you want in a 36 foot boat.

DCBD said:

What more could you want in a 36 foot boat.

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For it to look like a boat.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The lack of a walkaround main deck is a showstopper for us no matter what brand the boat is or how nice its aesthetics are. Of course it's possible to make almost any configuration work no matter how awkward or ill-concieved it may be.

But a full main deck is great in more ways than just docking. In fact it's not all that essential for docking at all as we don't get off the middle of the boat to do that. But for everything else from launching the dinghies to rafting to coming and going from the boat once it is docked to guests moving from the inside out to the fore or aft decks, to getting off a dock in adverse winds or currents to taking pictures and video, to a place the dog likes to run around on.... the list of benefits of a walkaround deck for us goes on and on.

It's personal preference, of course, but having examined a Manatee close-up (there's one in our marina) I cannot find a single feature other than the interior volume that would meet our requirements for a boat.

I have no reason to question the capabilities of the Manatee to handle the kind of cruising waters we have here. But were we to get a Manatee for some reason, after having the boat we have now, being on other boats of similar, full walkaround deck configuration, and taking a good look at the Manatee here, I have no doubt our experience with it would be an endless string of "I wish this boat had...." and "I wish we could do....."

It's all in what a person likes and doesn't like, and what works for one person may not work at all for the next one.

I have walk around side decks and really don't see the need for them. One must have a quick way to get from the helm to the float usually via the aft deck. If w 2 people just anyplace midships to aft w good access to the float is all that's needed. Just get a midships line fast and do the rest while sucking on a beer. Just because you use your side decks Marin dosn't mean you'd miss them if they were suddenly gone. And remember .... The Manatee is a Krogen.

I have walk around side decks and really don't see the need for them.

You're exactly right, all that walk around space takes away from the interior of the boat (and it does begin to look like a boat after some time:lol, for my money, I'll take interior space. The only disadvantage I've found to the Manatee so far is access to the dinghy could be easier. I really wanted to get a kayak but feel it's not manageable without getting wet.

If you like the Manatee, go for it a just realize what limitations it may have. I really thought the lack of a walkaround deck was going to be a problem when we purchased our Hatteras LRC 12 years ago but my wife liked the full beam interior since we were going to be living aboard. After 10 years of long distance coastal cruising I find the lack of the walkaround to be a non issue. In fact it was less of an issue than we had with our previous boat (an aft cabin Nova / Golden Star) because you didn't have to climb down a straight ladder to the swim platform in order to tie up. Fenders can be easily tied to the upper deck rail. The biggest issue is seaworthiness although a 15 knot wind is barely a slight breeze in the San Francisco area.

I wonder if there is some significance that the people who most vehemently defend the lack of a full walkaround deck don't have one?

I love a walkaround deck. For one thing, it helps make a boat look like what I think a boat should look like. Everyone has different reasons for getting into boating For me a big, big part of it is being out on a "proper" boat. Being out on the water is great. Being out on a boat that looks like I think a boat should look is even greater.

I could drive a Prius. They're certainly affordable and the car makes all sorts of sense. But aesthetically I think they absolutely suck. I would be embarrased to be seen driving one because it would be a statement that I have a horrible (by my standards) sense of aesthetics and design. So I don't drive one because I would not be happy driving it no matter how clever the technology.

I feel exactly the same about the Manatee. I simply would not enjoy driving a boat that by my standards is so ugly and un-boatlike. I don't care if it has a big wide living room, I don't care about all the house-like amenities. That's not why I like boats or boating. I have all that stuff in my house.. I am more than willing to put up with smaller cabins and fewer amenities in exchange for being out on the water in what I deem to be a "proper" boat. Proper boats by my definition don't look like stacked-to-the-sky Crowley barges headed for the North Slope.

As for the side decks, sure we could operate the boat without them. But I like stepping outside when my wife is driving and leaning on the side rail or up against the side of the cabin and looking at the view and the water going by. I like being able to simply walk to the aft or foredeck to do the same thing. I don't want to go through a door and up some stairs and across another deck and then down some stairs just to get to the other end of the boat.

But aesthetcs play a huge role in what my wife and I enjoy about boats. And we're not going to sacrifice that just so we can get a sofa into the cabin. As to my definition of a proper boat, at the top end of the size chart is the USS Missouri and her sisters. At the bottom of the chart is Carey's lobsterboat Happy Destiny. In between there are a few boats that we like and a hell of a lot of boats we don't like. And the Manatee pretty much tops the latter list when it comes to production boats.

Seaworthy? Absolutely. As someone said previously, seaworthiness is probaby more about who's running the boat than who made it. But it's obvious from the posts here that Manatee owners take their boats everywhere everyone else with a coastal cruiser takes theirs. Practical? Absolutely, just like a Prius. Good use of interior space? Absolutely. You want a floating house, this is the way to do it. A boat we would ever consider buying? Not in a million years.

Marin said:

... I like stepping outside when my wife is driving and leaning on the side rail or up against the side of the cabin and looking at the view and the water going by. I like being able to simply walk to the aft or foredeck to do the same thing. I don't want to go through a door and up some stairs and across another deck and then down some stairs just to get to the other end of the boat. ...

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One step out of the pilothouse and I'm leaning on the rail looking at the water going by.

I'm not sure I was defending not having a full walk around deck. I've owned both and, for me at least, I found that not having the full walk around is no big deal. I do have a partial walk around deck and would probably find that not being able to walk out the pilot house or down a few step from the fly fridge and go forward would be less than optimal.

This walk around deck thing sure brings up some strong emotions.

I wonder if the proponents of a full walk around deck do so to justify their smaller salons?

This is too funny and each to his own.

Personally I find the raised pilothouse boats to look more "boatish" than other designs with or without a walk around side deck.

I also see great asthetic appeal in the manatee and their larger cousins the greatharbors, and the florida bay coasters. That appeal isn't in a traditional salty way, it is in a great functionality way.

The way I look at it is that you dock a boat what, once every few days. That docking experience is a 5 minute block of time.

The rest of the time you're living in the boat, and for us at least the extra 3' width of our salon really comes in handy. And yes, for 5 minutes every couple of days we would like side decks.

I feel that walk around decks are nearly a necessity for some.I see it being a huge benefit when locking through.On a large vessel,it's really handy for cleaning the exterior.Cuts down or eliminates using the dink to wash the hull.

ksanders said:

I wonder if the proponents of a full walk around deck do so to justify their smaller salons?

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Our saloon is big enough for us.



(Full-sized desk and kitchen area not in view)

ksanders said:

I wonder if the proponents of a full walk around deck do so to justify their smaller salons?

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Ever been on a Fleming? Walk-around deck and a main cabin you could hold a dance in.

This eliminate-the side-decks-to-get-a wider-cabin is in my observation kind of bogus I think. It's sort of like Airbus saying their A330 cabin is five inches wider (or whatever it is) than the Boeing 767 cabin. Technically, Airbus is correct. But from a practical standpoint, in the words of the former CEO of Continental, "Nobody really cares."

Now if we held dances in our main cabin it would probably make a difference. But we don't. We sit, we play cards, we eat, we look at the stuff around us. If we widened the cabin by the amount of the side decks we'd still sit, play cards, eat, and look at the stuff around us. The only difference is there would be a few more feet of empty space between us the person across from us.

Not saying if we had the space we wouldn't like having it. But we wouldn't like having it enough to persuade us to give up the walkaround deck.

So our solution if we really wanted more width in the cabins would be to get a larger boat. A GB42 instead of a GB36, for example. Or a Fleming. Then we could hold a dance and still have a full walkaround deck.

Marin said:

Ever been on a Fleming? Walk-around deck and a main cabin you could hold a dance in.

This eliminate-the side-decks-to-get-a wider-cabin is in my observation kind of bogus I think. It's sort of like Airbus saying their A330 cabin is five inches wider (or whatever it is) than the Boeing 767 cabin. Technically, Airbus is correct. But from a practical standpoint, in the words of the former CEO of Continental, "Nobody really cares."

Now if we held dances in our main cabin it would probably make a difference. But we don't. We sit, we play cards, we eat, we look at the stuff around us. If we widened the cabin by the amount of the side decks we'd still sit, play cards, eat, and look at the stuff around us. The only difference is there would be a few more feet of empty space between us the person across from us.

Not saying if we had the space we wouldn't like having it. But we wouldn't like having it enough to persuade us to give up the walkaround deck.

So our solution if we really wanted more width in the cabins would be to get a larger boat. A GB42 instead of a GB36, for example. Or a Fleming. Then we could hold a dance and still have a full walkaround deck.

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I completely understand your thoughts, and I respect them. Thanks for having a great sense of humor.

The cool thing is that there is a boat for everybodies tastes. Side decks, widebody, trunk cabin, europa, pilothouse, and yes the Manatee possibly in a class by itself.

Everybodies boat suits their personality, and their needs.

markpierce said:

Our saloon is big enough for us.

(Full-sized desk and kitchen area not in view)

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Mark, get that cigarette out of your mouth
Steve W

Steve said:

Mark, get that cigarette out of your mouth
Steve W

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I would, but it's actually the handle of the airpump by the door.

Just BS'ing, I know you would never smoke in the boat.
Steve

I just want to say that Manatees DO HAVE a walkaround deck. The upper deck is completely accessible all around (with a step down to the foredeck). In my limited experience, I've found the Manatee very easy to handle in and out of slips. You can do all you need singlehanded from the upper deck. Transfer lines to the cleats in the stern cockpit and the side cleats later if you want to. It is a little different than most and more of a challenge with low floating docks but certainly not a dealbreaker. It's very convenient at my current dock with tall pilings.

As for seaworthiness, I don't have rough water experience but I imagine it would be more uncomfortable in the upper level pilothouse than at a lower level wheel. I simply plan to avoid rough conditions. I'm certain the design can take a lot more punishment than I can. On the other hand, down below she is very stable. There are things on shelves in the stateroom and salon that have never moved in the roughest wakes in the waterway.

I spend a lot of time on the boat at the dock and she is supremely comfortable. That's where she shines. She's a little homely but I'm not planning on entering her in a beauty contest. Homely is as homely does - she's beautiful.

GarryP said:

I spend a lot of time on the boat at the dock and she is supremely comfortable. That's where she shines. She's a little homely but I'm not planning on entering her in a beauty contest. Homely is as homely does - she's beautiful.

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Capt. Garry, are you still at Twin Dolphin?

I moved Mango Mama to Petes Pier Marina in Crystal River so I can stay aboard during the week. I work at the Nuc Plant and we live in Bradenton. Victoria comes up some weekends when she's feeling up to it.

Are you back in South Carolina now? I had a slip in Hilton Head with a previous boat 5-6 years ago.

GarryP said:

I moved Mango Mama to Petes Pier Marina in Crystal River so I can stay aboard during the week. I work at the Nuc Plant and we live in Bradenton. Victoria comes up some weekends when she's feeling up to it.

Are you back in South Carolina now? I had a slip in Hilton Head with a previous boat 5-6 years ago.

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I know just where you are. I love to fish out of Crystal River. I love the place except for the snaky channel coming in. Caught alot of grouper around Gomez Rock, and red fish along the power plant canal.

My good friend in Bradenton (Riviera Dunes) passed away in December. Won't be back that way until we move the boat back to the West Coast. We are hanging out at Ft. Pierce City Marina for a year or maybe more. Then go back North. Where were you at Hilton Head? We have stayed at Shelter Cove many times.

I have a soft spot for owning and restoring vehicles and vessels that wouldn't win any beauty contest, so I guess that our Manatee is just another in a long list of form-challenged vehicles. Still, I think it may be difficult to find a Manatee owner who felt bad about his boat.......the thing simply has too many assets to really attack, and it's doubtful one would know what those assets are without the process of buying, owing, servicing, cruising, and selling a Manatee. I'm sure the same is true for any other boat.

It may not be pertinent, but one might consider that after over 150 ship designs, James Krogen wanted to build his version of the ultimate couple's cruiser for he and his wife. This is what he came up with. It works.

Pick and choose your days and the Manatee is fine. Skipper Bob spent winters in the Abacos and he had a Manatee. Most people regardless of the boat don't venture into the Gulf Stream in conditions greater then 15 knots and nothing out of the north.
A boat with stabilizers is more comfortable but they still usually pick and choose their days too.
I'm in the process of purchasing a Manatee. Originally I wanted a 42' Krogen but couldn't find one in the shape I wanted. The Manatee actually has more room and storage and costs less to run and insure. Allstate will insure any boat less then 36' not including the swim platform and their rates are fantastic. I think the Manatee fits those parameters.
I'm a coastal cruiser that's spent a lot of time in the Bahamas. I'll just have to be patient like I did on my 41' Defever which was a good sea boat but like all unstabilized trawlers rolled in a beam sea. I usually would tack in a beam sea.

Who cares about walk around decks. The boat is only 36'. I had a 41' Defever with walk around decks but with the only place to sit and relax was a fixed built in like you see on monks, Grand Banks, etc. try sitting on the built in settee and it gets uncomfortable quickly. Would much ray get have the Manatee's room and that's why I'm buying one!

"I'm in the process of purchasing a Manatee. "

jrs1958' good luck on your search! My husband and I just bought one and we love it! ��

jrs1958 said:

Who cares about walk around decks.

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My wife certainly cares when leaving and returning to home dock. Moving from bow to stern, deploying fenders etc. Very much makes things easier and safer.

like many situations in life, adaptation comes along and things are back to normal.


all boats are compromises, so adaptation is usually inevitable.

jrs1958 we have owned our 1987 Manatee for 8 years and love it. Our only open water sea worthyness test so far has been the 24 hour 172 mile trip from Clearwater to Carabelle, Fl. in 3 to 4 foot seas and the Manatee did fine, set the auto pilot and enjoyed the dolphins escorting us along the way.

I keep reading about the limited walk around decks in this thread... the Manatee has all the walk around deck space anyone could ask for, plus 360 degree visibility. Unless you're tying off in a wind storm there's time to climb down the ladder and step onto the dock.

The manatees walk around top deck is no higher than a Hatteras 53. The difference is in the monthly moorage and the fact that a line handler can step out of the cockpit of a Manatee easily. Good luck from the Hatteras….

I know this is an old thread BTW