Plumbing problem with city water connection

CPseudonym said:

We have municipalities around here with high water pressure too. Wonderful invention those things called pressure regulators. Cheap and widely used.

If a garden hose will overpower your bilge pumps I pity the day you actually need yours. It's the first thing I made sure my pump could handle was a wide open hose in the bilge. Woulda never left the dock if it couldn't but that's just my standard.

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As well as the fact that most water lines have valves on them which you can just turn down to lower the flow rate.

City water pressure can vary. You might think you have it sorted, but get a pressure spike, suddenly your system gets overwhelmed.

We fill the tanks , bur there is a simple soluton for folks that want "city water".

A QUALITY pressure reducing unit .

This is NOT marine and nor RV. A $100 investment, rebuildable.

Purchase it at the plumbing supply house and install it outside near the dock supply.

Your potable water hose to the boat will thank you as will the internal fittings.

As most pressure regulators can supply a great flow (rather than the pressure rise and fall of the usual 12v pump) a fairly low setting will usually do just fine.

But its still a risk,to depart with the water on.

As most bilges do not suffer from being washed , simply allowing the FW inlet to run free and observing weather the boats bilge pump system is adequate might be an interesting experiment.

I've connected to city water, but only turned the spigot open 1/4 turn and shut it off when leaving. After seeing line damage from someone else on this forum with city water pressure, that caused me to rethink my use of it. Most of the time just use my own tanks.

Some good points brought up here; a good exercise is to cleanse your bilge with fresh water every now and then, good way to test pump system while you are at it.

As for insurance claims, I was told that by adjusters for both Zurich and ACE.
Either instance, a poorly maintained and/or designed boat as a result of owner neglect ( by intent or ignorance) is the root cause.

Me, I tried to remember to turn the water off when away for awhile merely because it served no purpose being on. But I never worried for a second if I forgot, no more than at a house.

The yard watering systems use 12V parts.

Should be pretty easy to wire a shut off valve to a switch to turn the water off as you go ashore.

]I've connected to city water, but only turned the spigot open 1/4 turn and shut it off when leaving.

Partially closing the valve would reduce the flow rate if a line failed, but it does not reduce the line pressure.

"Partially closing the valve would reduce the flow rate if a line failed, but it does not reduce the line pressure."

You bet there is no loss of pressure to the standing system.

At box stores they do sell for washing machines a gadget that closes with too much flow.

Should the hose to a washing machine let go the high volume of water closes the valve .

Might be installed at the dock source as a safety ?

A couple of bucks worth of plastic , whats to loose?

Not sure if that wahing machine valve would know the difference of normal several faucet use or line break. Would be great if it did...simple and easier than the gallon meter approach.

Can always wire your bilge pumps to also cut off an electrical solenoid in the water system. Thought about doing that for my air conditioning pump too.

tadhana said:

]I've connected to city water, but only turned the spigot open 1/4 turn and shut it off when leaving.

Partially closing the valve would reduce the flow rate if a line failed, but it does not reduce the line pressure.

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Yes but it's flow that would sink a boat, not pressure.

FF said:

"Partially closing the valve would reduce the flow rate if a line failed, but it does not reduce the line pressure."

You bet there is no loss of pressure to the standing system.

At box stores they do sell for washing machines a gadget that closes with too much flow.

Should the hose to a washing machine let go the high volume of water closes the valve .

Might be installed at the dock source as a safety ?

A couple of bucks worth of plastic , whats to loose?

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A better investment might be a high water alarm.

"A better investment might be a high water alarm."

Hopefully most folks have alredy installed one.

FF said:

"A better investment might be a high water alarm."

Hopefully most folks have alredy installed one.

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I bet not. Maybe we should start a poll.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Yes but it's flow that would sink a boat, not pressure.

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Flow can sink the boat, but it has to overcome the bilge pump and the back up bilge pump. As I mentioned previously I have intentionally tested my bilge pump system to confirm that it can stay ahead of the full flow. It does, and I have a 2000 gph pump above it as back up. We live aboard. We have a bilge pump counter. In the normal course of the day it is not likely that we will be sunk by a water system failure. So If I am away form the boat for a few hours, I'd say the risk is pretty darn low. On the other hand, when I'm going away for a weekend I always turn of the hose.

Rossland said:

We never connect to city water. We fill the freshwater tanks, and pump from there. If you are connected to city water, and a pipe ruptures when you are not onboard, it will probably sink the boat. If you are pumping from the freshwater tanks, and a pipe ruptures when you are not onboard, the worst that will happen is that your freshwater tank will be empty when you return.

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Exactly. I don't have a city water connection and would not use it if I had one. Too dangerous.

To the OP - If your water tanks are overflowing when on city water, suspect the check valve.

Water heater - Is it getting power? There are three parts to an electric water heater: the heating element, the thermostat and the tank. If the tank is not leaking, it's one of the other two.

FF said:

"A better investment might be a high water alarm."

Hopefully most folks have alredy installed one.

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I live about six miles from my marina it had better be a loud one.

There's nothing wrong with installing an alarm but using an alarm to compensate for a bad practice is not a good idea.

CPseudonym said:

I would say to each his own except to say this. Those of you worried about a 3/4" hose sinking your boat a bilge pump upgrade project is in your very near future I'd hope. Unless your current pump is just for show because you rely on a magic wand to dewater your boat.

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It's going to take a mighty big bilge pump and a mighty big set of batteries to keep up with the flow of a 3/4" water hose at 60PSI or higher.

It's pretty easy to not have to worry about that situation. A lot easier than putting in place equipment to deal with it if it happens.

Buy a pressure gage and check the dock water pressure before you hook up a hose. This morning 110 PSI, your Jabsco or Shurflow will not handle this pressure. Big box stores do sell for around $75 brass pressure reducing valves as used in a lot of homes. You would have to plumb it for attaching to dock faucets.
I choose to use my water tanks and pump.

Boats are surrounded by water...WAY too dangerous to operate/own one...

Proven every day by the couple of boats that sink compares to hundreds of thousands or millions?...and usually not from the shore connection.

As I posted before..don't compare my boat or operations to any other boaters till you can prove where the danger lies...your limitations and concerns are not mine for good reasons...and possibly not for others as well.

Connecting to city water with proper safeguards is no more dangerous than many other boating things we undertake, maintain or choose to ignore.

If I lived ashore, sure I wouldn't connect to the dock except when aboard, and even then maybe not as it would take months to use up my water storage.

Liveaboards might have a different take and because they are they are aboard full time with known departure periods, safety takes a slightly different twist as some would try to have it only one way.

HiDHo said:

Buy a pressure gage and check the dock water pressure before you hook up a hose. This morning 110 PSI, your Jabsco or Shurflow will not handle this pressure. Big box stores do sell for around $75 brass pressure reducing valves as used in a lot of homes. You would have to plumb it for attaching to dock faucets.
I choose to use my water tanks and pump.

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Was that a spike or long term pressure?

I have had spikes over 100 numerous times during my liveaboard periods over the last 2 years with no failures. Of course, I have always had one or two pressure regulators on the hose bringing the water aboard. That's why they are there and most water inlets have one built in.

The pumps seem fine....I would be more worried about some boat steps where the faucets, shower and water heater connections are.

My water heater had some squirrel plumbing on it when I first bought the boat. In the first 2 years I had 4 hose splits on the hot side. Each time I woke up to a steamy main saloon. The boat had nice clean bilges and bilge pumps at this point and the typical 3 inches of water where it always lays. The bilge pumps kept up but I was never happy with that situation,

2 years ago I reply bed with pex all throughout and stainless braided lines from all fixtures. Not a drop, failure or worry now.

One more reason to avoid leaving the city water connected. In the Caribbean one pays dearly for city/dock water, from 11 cents to 45 cents a US gallon. Three times last year the pressure was so high that the hose sprung a leak. Actually once a leak in the hose, twice a leak at the hose bib. The one time I didn't catch the leak within minutes I had pored over 400 gallons into the sea at my expense.

Bay Pelican said:

One more reason to avoid leaving the city water connected. In the Caribbean one pays dearly for city/dock water, from 11 cents to 45 cents a US gallon. Three times last year the pressure was so high that the hose sprung a leak. Actually once a leak in the hose, twice a leak at the hose bib. The one time I didn't catch the leak within minutes I had pored over 400 gallons into the sea at my expense.

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All too true....outside the boat hose failures abound.

I have repaired the docks shore feed to the entire dock more than all my boats in my whole life.

Thankfully we are in an area of reasonably cheap water...and the marina can't complain when our hoses fail when they have dumped 100,000s of thousands of gallons and the slip holders have been the ones to stop and repair it.

Like many TF discussions, one way isn't necessarily the right way for all....every different owner, boat, marina, circumstance will have variables that we need to consider.

NO not a spike, normal range day to day 105 to 110 psi.
Not a good day watching a bulkhead mounted shore water reducer explode !

I have heard of places like that, but the exception to the rule in my travels.

Either way, that's what pressure reducers are for....not need to change a system or way of doing things.

Again, this is clearly a topic of preference versus fears. If you fear your boat sinking, never hook to city water...no harm, no foul.

But there are plenty of people who have done it for a lifetime of boating and have not sunk their boats. Probably through taking proper safeguards and good habit patterns.

New boaters should realize the pro and cons.

In my mind the danger is overstated if precautions are met. The simple and guaranteed way is to never hook up. For some no big deal. For others the ritual of refilling tanks may be more of an issue than just a few safeguards and remembering to turn off the water once and awhile.

"There's nothing wrong with installing an alarm but using an alarm to compensate for a bad practice is not a good idea."

True but then again on the simplest and best maintained boats

STUFF HAPPENS

WesK said:

I live about six miles from my marina it had better be a loud one.

There's nothing wrong with installing an alarm but using an alarm to compensate for a bad practice is not a good idea.

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If ABYC hasn't weighed in yet banning city water inlets, whose to say it is a "bad practice"?

Follow their plumbing recommendations and your boat CAN'T sink....

There are other safeguards that make city water perfectly acceptable in many circumstances.

Rossland said:

We never connect to city water. We fill the freshwater tanks, and pump from there. If you are connected to city water, and a pipe ruptures when you are not onboard, it will probably sink the boat. If you are pumping from the freshwater tanks, and a pipe ruptures when you are not onboard, the worst that will happen is that your freshwater tank will be empty when you return.

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Amen! Been there, done that! Woke one morning (I lived aboard at the time) to find the forward cabin had 5" of water and more coming in from a ruptured washdown line in the chain locker. I don't know if it would have overpowered the bilge pumps, but I am glad I didn't have to find out.

Once upon a time during a particularly rough passage (Virgin Gorda to St. Martin) we noticed both bilge pump lights staying on. I was scared when I first opened the engine room hatch to see 8"+ of water in the bilge. After I quickly figured out it was fresh water I was no longer scared just upset. A hose which was downstream from the fresh water pump had come loose and ended up dumping 200+ gallons of fresh water in the engine room.

Fortunately, the pump was not strong enough to flood anything other than the bilge, thus no damage to engine, batteries, electonics etc. Loss of 200 gallons of water took most of a day of running the watermaker to replace.

Because of this incident, I have eliminated all splices in the fresh water hose system.

In rough weather I try to remember to turn off the fresh water pump.

WesK said:

It's going to take a mighty big bilge pump and a mighty big set of batteries to keep up with the flow of a 3/4" water hose at 60PSI or higher.

It's pretty easy to not have to worry about that situation. A lot easier than putting in place equipment to deal with it if it happens.

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Wes, you seem to forget the boat is hooked to shore power, thus the battery charger would be running.

In addition to the regulator built into the boat, we also installed one at the dock end of our hose. If your system can't handle 60psi, then don't let 60psi into your boat. I'd maintain that one's system was inadequate for seaworthiness if it couldn't.

"In rough weather I try to remember to turn off the fresh water pump."

There are things to be said about a noisy water pump.

AS LED draw almost nothing a #22 wire from the FW pump to the galley or dash might be useful.