To unobservant dummy, it is gonna cost ya

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Mule said:
oK armchair "experts" what have I should have done. Step up. What would have done other what I have already outlined? I admitted that I should have short hauled, I pointed out that I started the turn while he was on a straight line course. What should I have done???
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Still waiting for a logical alternative answer different than what I did or admitted that I could have done...what I could have done, bear in mind I had NO obligation to do.
 
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Mule said:
I turned to the left. He was going straight.... I DID not cut in front of him in any way.. .I got into a u turn lane, with bent rods
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Really your bent rods are irrelevant. They're not in his path. More relevant is you turned left and he was going straight.
 
Mule said:
Operative term, "not being a fisherman". I, apparently assumed, with outriggers, he would have known. He did not.
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You assumed? So you could see him approaching and made the turn based on assuming he was a fisherman and would have known you were trolling well behind at near surface levels?

No, the Searays you disparage are not fishermen either.
 
Mule said:
Still waiting for a logical alternative answer different than what I did or admitted that I could have done...what I could have done, bear in mind I had NO obligation to do.
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You should have made sure there was no one within a distance to cross your lines. At the minimum if crossing you should have had something showing the lines behind. Otherwise you should have pulled your lines in before crossing where another boat was crossing. Had you done any of those things there would have been no incident.

One option not mentioned either is delivering a warning to him over the VHF that you were trolling and the lines were there.

Are you saying he shouldn't use the channel? That he should obviously know you crossed with the trolling lines where they would get him? That he should continue at no wake even outside the no wake zone? What is it you're saying he did wrong?

I can say this, as much as I've cruised, I am not aware of anyone ever trolling across the channel in front of us. I see sportfishing boats off the coast running at trolling speed and I do keep a good distance.
 
Mule, feel your frustration. My charter boat runs 15 knots. The big boys run 30+. Don't know why they have to climb up my transom in the inlet. Would another 30 seconds really make that much difference in their day?

Ted
 
boatpoker said:
Were you displaying the appropriate "fishing day shapes". :)
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Nope. They would be 'not' appropriate. Trolling elicits no protection or special status under Colregs. Trawling on the other hand.....

Mule: From your explanation: you did a u turn in front of the guy. Your fishing gear did not have the time to get pulled behind you in time to be on your side of the channel. You are responsible for the gear not him. You sound as if you turned and met him on a port to port meeting. Fine. Trolling lines don't afford you fishing boat status. So your gear may have indeed fouled his lower unit. I wouldn't be proud of accomplishing this. Jmho.

Think of it this way. If you did this in front of the other guy and he was trolling also, who would get yelled at for fouling lines? The guy on the straight course? Or the guy who turned in front of?
 
BruceK said:
I think the vindictive aspect bothers people. The German word "schadenfreude" means deriving pleasure from the misfortune of others. Understandably, there is no word for it in the English language.
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I think the closest word is Ambivalence.
 
BandB said:
You assumed? So you could see him approaching and made the turn based on assuming he was a fisherman and would have known you were trolling well behind at near surface levels?

No, the Searays you disparage are not fishermen either.
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You said "approching". I never said that. What part of "HAMMERED" and "From my perspective" did you not understand? Checking before starting the slow turn, he was FOLLOWING. And a long ways back.

As for the Sea Rays I disparage, reputations are generally earned, not awarded w/o reason.
 
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Whenever possible, I attempt to avoid fishermen's lines even if their location isn't appropriate. Fortunately, the skipper of the Predator anchored in an appropriate spot:



Have observed fishing boats anchored in the middle of channels (bad form!) but none have crossed closely in front.
 
cappy208 said:
Nope. They would be 'not' appropriate. Trolling elicits no protection or special status under Colregs. Trawling on the other hand.....

Mule: From your explanation: you did a u turn in front of the guy. Your fishing gear did not have the time to get pulled behind you in time to be on your side of the channel. You are responsible for the gear not him. You sound as if you turned and met him on a port to port meeting. Fine. Trolling lines don't afford you fishing boat status. So your gear may have indeed fouled his lower unit. I wouldn't be proud of accomplishing this. Jmho.

Think of it this way. If you did this in front of the other guy and he was trolling also, who would get yelled at for fouling lines? The guy on the straight course? Or the guy who turned in front of?
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thanks for the rules..I really do not care about the dance on my little boat the wife an I did. In fact, it made us a better team. I will not leave line out again as I did, no one wins. I am in no way proud that his lower unit(s) may be screw up. However, I feel no guilt whatsoever. He is approching 30 knots cutting behind and not being a good enough seaman, fisherman even, to see directly below his nose. I know had I been him, I would have passed in the middle of the channel, to the left, to the north....but no..

Just to be clear, I did not plan this situtation.
 
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markpierce said:
Whenever possible, I attempt to avoid fishermen's lines even if their location isn't appropriate. Fortunately, the skipper of the Predator anchored in an appropriate spot:



Have observed fishing boats anchored in the middle of channels (bad form!) but none have crossed closely in front.
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Yeah, and that is BS. On a sailboat with 6 foot draft a power boat, anchored in the middle of the channel got pissed (shallow all around) when we all but hit his rub rail.
 
Mule... also being a back bay troller, I understand...I can see where you thought the guy behind you should have guessed....but we all know how much attention many boaters really pay.

For those not familiar with this kind of fishing...rules of the road sorta apply, but often there are so many boats around ...the rules are more of a Mish mash of avoidance...nothing resembling the textbooks.

While I sorta know the area...and have trolled around Ft Pierce inlet as well as many others...I haven't really pieced together what you did or didn't do....so what.....in the big scheme of things.

The guy cut your lines, sucks, but you are OK now after venting. Which I would probably do too....so don't pay much attention to "textbook type" answers about the maneuvering. :thumb:

We both know how they apply in these back Bay fishing situations. :eek:
 
I once made the mistake of heading upstream out of Annapolis on opening day of rock fish season. I have never seen so many boats and all of them trolling back and forth across the shipping lane. For over an hour I tried to weave my way through them and not one of them would give me a inch .... So to hell with it ! I headed right up the channel and must have cut 20 or 30 lines and listened to their curses on the radio till I was out of range.
 
Good thing I don't fish (except at the supermarket). That way, I don't feel entitled to the channel. to the exclusion of others.
 
I need more data.
How much line did you have out? Surface trolling? Anyone minding the rods? Were the captain and crew facing forward? What were you fishing for out of FP? I'm a fisherman so I'm just asking. :)
 
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Mule said:
Yeah, and that is BS. On a sailboat with 6 foot draft a power boat, anchored in the middle of the channel got pissed (shallow all around) when we all but hit his rub rail.
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Yeah, aren't middle-channel, anchored-outs a real pain?
... On a blind turn in the Napa River I gave some mid-channel anchored fishermen a good scare. (They put their hands signaling "surrender,") Should have blown my loud horn earlier and given them two scares.
 
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Hey Mule, a Montauk is 17ft right? You were out fishing and The Turd cut you lines and was a hazard to navigation. Sound right? I'm glad you and your wife are ok.
 
Mule said:
And just HOW is that? I hold NO animosity toward this guy. I spend a few dollars respooling my reel, so what!!! I am "entitled" to troll an inlet, not bothering anybody, with expectation of being left in peace.

Please explain ENTITLED???


Look, I feel for the guy. He will pay the price. Just WTF should I have done???

Oh please, oh wise one, Please give me guidance. As your humble servant, if you insist I will put all my boats on the hard. After all, being a taxpayer I have an entitled attitude therefore no rights according to you..

So please Mark-whatever, what would you have me do? I am awaiting your wise guidance so I can adjust my life accordingly.. Please help me. Do I need to mothball my Whaler and 38 foot Trawler because I have an "entitled" attitude?

How far do want to take this? My attitude is I want to live in reasonable peace W/O insensitive , unreasonable AH intrupting that peace. I try, very, very hard to do the same. I follow the rules, and it is unreasonable for me to expect others to do the same, or I am (labeled by you) as "entitled".

Please explain. Good luck with that.
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This is pretty simple.

You were trolling in a inlet that is marked a no wake zone. So obviously it's a designated channel.

You admit to not being out of the channel, just "Way over to the edge, within 25-35 yards of the bank at the drop off to 30 feet through the no wake zone. "
So you were fishing in THE CHANNEL, yes?

"Had he just taken a hard left, then a right and passed on my left then no prob, instead he went between me and the bank, right where the dragged lines were. When he passed I was 100 yards or so from the edge. "

Why would he have thought to cross in front of you when he had, in your own words, "I was 100 yards or so from the edge. " 100 yards of clear space between you and the inlet edge to safely pass behind you.

You are at the very least, as much responsible for what happened as he is. If not more do. Since you admit to not paying any attention to what was going on behind you.


If this happened in Fort Pierce inlet, based on the chart of the inlet and if you were in or on the very edge of 30' of water, then you had to be in the channel. If so, you were more at fault then he was by a lot IMO. Because you turned into a marked channel while dragging lines.

I'm sure if he figured out what happened he was cussing you out for trolling in an marked inlet channel.

And he would be right to do so.
 
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"Dragging fishing lines across a channel? Sounds like a bad move."

Don't go to Maine where stringing lobster pots ACROSS the channel, buoy to buoy , so the can be found in the fog , is common practice.



In FL the most common no wake zone is a new homeowner too cheap to put in a boat hoist that simply steals a Manatee Zone sign for his place.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
"back bay"!? Hardly.

He was in a marked inlet that has a no wake zone. Not even remotely back bay fishing IMO.
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OK I should have been more specific..... close quarters, confined area, versus open waters such as the ocean or very large body of water.

I kinda go by the descriptors on the fishing forums I am a member of..... keeps things simple.....but I guess not for different areas or groups.

I am not saying Mule was entirely in the right.

Fishermen would force me out of the channel all the time when I was towing big boats and flashing lights to signal my situation.

Yet I have been doing this all long enough to understand where he is coming from. Anyone arguing rules of the road in this situation is arguing theoretical, not real world. This one is strictly a courtesy and practical helmsmanship.

And much like the wake argument reqarding little boats in the channel, there are 2 thoughts on that issue as well as to who is being discourse ousted to whom.
 
:horse:

Think this Mule has been beat enough; time to let it go.

Ted
 
Just for the record....the Fort Pierce Inlet is Huge.Really huge! And beautiful. Really Beautiful!
 
Larry M said:
I need more data.
How much line did you have out? Surface trolling? Anyone minding the rods? Were the captain and crew facing forward? What were you fishing for out of FP? I'm a fisherman so I'm just asking. :)
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Too much line out apparently.
 
Fished out of Montauk for decades, can't say I have ever seen a person trolling rods in the inlet, once clear of the jetty's it's all open. Inlet is also not that big, especially with the shoaling on east side.
 
Fort Pierce inlet is really wide...there is a north and south side. East gets you England, west gets you FL.

Montauk, in this case is a Boston Whaler 17.
 
My bad, I thought you were fishing out of Montauk NY!
Mule said:
Fort Pierce inlet is really wide...there is a north and south side. East gets you England, west gets you FL.

Montauk, in this case is a Boston Whaler 17.
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