How do you use your generator?

Dswizzler said:

The best input I've seen is 83 amps inbound to the batteries.

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That is truly impressive. Makes my two little 240 watt panels and 11.5 amps best input shrivel to insignificance. Still, with what we have we can run our little Vitrifrigo refrig/freezer 24/7, as well as keep our 680 amp hour battery bank up to snuff w/o using the noisemaker or shore power.

Solar is viable.

Dswizzler, can you take a pic of those panels and where they are mounted?

I have a number of shots of the frames and the install but here is the finished product, perhaps tomorrow I can post more if there is any interest. The back half of the frame attaches to the radar arch and the front attached to what looks like a wakeboard tower under the bimini. Very strong I plan to leave it all up and in place during the hurricane season here in Loreto, Mexico DSC07139.jpg

dhays said:

I have the inverter set to cut out when the batteries are down to 80%. As a rough guess it looks like in this situation we would probably need to run the generator for a few hours in the morning and evening if we aren't traveling. How does this compare?

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Sorry if this point has already been made, but I don't have time to read this whole thread right now and wanted to share what might be a really important thing for you to know. -- It is my understanding (and routine practice) that as long as the batteries are not left in a state of low charge for an extended period of time, it is fine to run them down to 30%. I agree that some capacity will be lost, over time, as compared to your practice of running down to 80%, but if you only use the top 20%, you will need to size your house bank 3.5x larger than if you run down to 30%. I am confident that the cost savings on house bank size (not to mention the benefits of having 3.5 times the capacity), greatly out weight the cost of diminished life expectancy (really, diminished capacity, which you aren't using anyway).

Although I now run my genset 24/7, on my last boat, my house bank (relative to my needs) would allow me to run for about 10 hours (at which point, I would be down to below 50% capacity), charge for 2 hours, then repeat that process. So, I ran the genset in the morning and in the evening but off batteries the rest of the time. When usage and circumstances warranted, I could cut the charging to once a day, for a longer period and after having run down the batteries to about 30%. Because the rate of charge diminishes as the batteries reach full capacity, I typically did not recharge above 80-85%.

dhays said:

I have the inverter set to cut out when the batteries are down to 80%. As a rough guess it looks like in this situation we would probably need to run the generator for a few hours in the morning and evening if we aren't traveling. How does this compare?

She asked me to turn off the genny because the diesel fumes are bothering her.

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dhays said:

Nova Kool. That is one of the manuals that I either haven't found yet, or haven't gotten around to reading. If it goes to AC when available, then I don't have to worry about turning off the DC breaker. One less thing to do.

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In "normal" weather -- mostly meaning not July and August around here -- we run the genset 2x/day, morning and evening for an hour or two each, when at anchor. The real "hour or two each" time mostly depends on how long it takes to make whatever meal we're doing in the electric galley at the time. During those periods, we charge batteries; make hot water; run the fridges on AC for a while; may or may not run the ACs (aircons), depending.

That's pretty much without regard to depth of discharge, although we rarely exceed 50%. We have AGMs and I'm not afraid to use 'em. The oldest bank is starting it's 11th season now, showing signs of age but still working... so I've gotten my money's worth, I think

In really hot weather, we usually run the genset from dock to dock, to keep interior temps and humidity bearable.

Our NovaKool fridges work that way, too: when AC is present, they'll use that, otherwise they default to DC. (The power supply is simply a converter, uses AC to make DC to run the DC compressor. Much like a laptop -- or similar -- power supply.)

You probably shouldn't be noticing diesel fumes, although I can see that being dependent on open doors, hatches, portlights, etc. and which way the wind is blowing...

-Chris

Dswizzler said:

We just celebrated our one year anniversary cruising full time and most of that time we have been on the hook. Before leaving northern California for Mexico we installed four 335 watt solar panels from Northern Az Wind and Sun, to complement out 1800 amp hours of lifeline AGM batteries. living aboard fulltime, with 3 refrigerators (beer, wine food) and freezer, we consume way more power then most boat. But by running my 8K Northern lights for 2-3 hours daily my batteries stay above 90% and the solar is now bringing them above 100 % everyday. We have currently been off the dock for 8 weeks and given the marina availability in the middle to Northern part of the Sea of Cortez, I don't see us plugging in any time soon. The solar I installed was one of the best ideas I had before leaving the states and this year I got back 30% o my install cost in Federal Tax credits. Hope this helps somebody. Currently in Loredo Mexico I'm making about 6.5k watts per day. The best input I've seen is 83 amps inbound to the batteries.

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All that electrical stuff aside, man, that's some sweet cruising action there! I'm jealous!!! Congratulations!

dwhatty said:

That is truly impressive. Makes my two little 240 watt panels and 11.5 amps best input shrivel to insignificance. Still, with what we have we can run our little Vitrifrigo refrig/freezer 24/7, as well as keep our 680 amp hour battery bank up to snuff w/o using the noisemaker or shore power.

Solar is viable.

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David, your best input number of 11.5 amps seems low. I have 450 watts of semi-flexible that peaks at about 330 watts and around 24 amps.
Maybe you figure is net to the battery subtracting out loads.
My battery monitor will show 9-10 amps to the battery when the solar is at 20-24 amps. That's because the loads are generally cycling at 8-16 amps.

Hey maybe that's why you said best "input". Its best input to the battery not best solar panel output.

ranger42c said:

I
You probably shouldn't be noticing diesel fumes, although I can see that being dependent on open doors, hatches, portlights, etc. and which way the wind is blowing...

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Several have worried about the diesel fumes I mentioned. My wife was sitting in the aft cockpit on the starboard side. This is right next to where the exhaust exits the boat. There was absolutely no wind so the exhaust simply rose up and some was contained by the overhang of the boat deck. If there had been any kind of breeze, she wouldn't have noticed it.

This is a great thread, thanks to all for your great input. As I am still learning my boat, I use the generator in the morning until the battery monitor shows "float" charging, and the same in the evening. I have 6 6v golf cart batteries in my house bank. Am I charging too long each time? Do the rest of you get to the "float" stage of charging before shutting down the genny?

BTW, I will be adding solar soon. I had it on my sailboat (500+watts) and never had to run the generator. This boat has much higher electrical demands, with a full-size fridge and electric stove, AC, etc., so I will probably try to add at least 1000 watts of solar.

Cheers, Bill

Montenido said:

This is a great thread, thanks to all for your great input. As I am still learning my boat, I use the generator in the morning until the battery monitor shows "float" charging, and the same in the evening. I have 6 6v golf cart batteries in my house bank. Am I charging too long each time? Do the rest of you get to the "float" stage of charging before shutting down the genny?



Cheers, Bill

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Likely that the majority Of those at anchor do not see float charging until they return to the dock, or their solar/wind generation tops them up.

We normally charge until the charge rate of each charger drops to around 40 amps from a start of around 100/110 amps. We generally do this twice a day and the batteries are almost never below 12.6 v.

We stopped the genny when we didn't need it for the loads anymore, but that typically co-incided with the batteries being at least at 90%. When we were living on a mooring, and/or anchoring out all the time, I had an automatic generator start as part of my Magnum system, which was adjustable as to when it "cut in" and set cut out (easily adjustable and over-rideable) at about 2 hours. It was triggered by the charge level of the inverter bank. The newer ones are much more sophisticated and can be set acccording to all sorts of parameters, such as true state of charge from the battery monitor, and incorporate warm up and cool down cycles and attendant load shedding capabilities.

Have to admit that battery charging was not our top of mind reason for using the generator, other than if for some reason we had discharged the inverter bank prematurely, thus the AGS. I think the daily exercise played a big role in the thing being so long lived.

Montenido said:

As I am still learning my boat, I use the generator in the morning until the battery monitor shows "float" charging, and the same in the evening. I have 6 6v golf cart batteries in my house bank. Am I charging too long each time? Do the rest of you get to the "float" stage of charging before shutting down the genny?

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Probably depends on how much your batteries had been discharged each time, and then also on how your charger works (or is programmed).

The absorption charge on our charger is set for 4 hours, so usually the switchover to float would take far longer than we run the genset.

And then there's the part about how many simultaneous days we'll be away from the dock... If we're out for a couple weeks, one or two hours per morning and per evening has been fine. That doesn't usually mean waiting until float (on the charger) happens.

-Chris

Boy, it's interesting to read this thread. We spent two years with our Carver, never ran the generator (other than once in a while to make sure it still ran). On the Mainship now, the gen wouldn't start when we took ownership (dead battery). We figured we'd worry about it later and motored about 350 miles over about 16 days and never missed it. Well, we did marina hop every night, so that's why we didn't miss it much I suppose. When we had the boat pulled for shipping we had the marina replace the gen battery and tune it up, runs great -- but last summer and so far this summer, we've never used it at all. I suppose if we got used to using the microwave on the hook, or A/C, or watching TV or using the stove while anchored out we'd want to fire it up more often, but some previous posters are right, ours might be dead from lack of use and we wouldn't even know it.

If we don't have A/C at anchor we don't stay out - it is just stifling otherwise.

menzies said:

If we don't have A/C at anchor we don't stay out - it is just stifling otherwise.

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At 90 degrees and 100% humidity I bet all would be running there gen, even with a 10 knot breeze it is just a convection oven.

They've always been called a "noise maker" so I assume that's what they're used for. I've heard a few so that could be conformation of same.

Nomad Willy said:

They've always been called a "noise maker" so I assume that's what they're used for. I've heard a few so that could be conformation of same.

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Called noise makers by sailboat owners who don't have them...lol

Today's generators with sound shields don't make much noise at all.

I've never heard the term "noise maker." Maybe the little gas Hondas that some folks throw on their swim platforms, that sing out to the red neck sand bar.

We have a 16KW Northern Lights that runs on the same level of the boat as us but, frankly, the A/C motor and fan more than covers the noise.

As a former sailor, I have been annoyed by generators running in an otherwise quiet anchorage. However, the newer installations are amazingly quiet.

dhays said:

As a former sailor, I have been annoyed by generators running in an otherwise quiet anchorage. However, the newer installations are amazingly quiet.

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They're just as loud as you remember them only now you don't notice the noise over the sound of ice clanging in your glass.

"Called noise makers by sailboat owners who don't have them...lol

Today's generators with sound shields don't make much noise at all."

Most are quiet INSIDE the boat running it , but seldom are quiet OUTSIDE .

An exhaust can be made really quiet with a proper sized water lift muffler setup.

Most use undersized (cheaper to buy) water lifts to get it quiet aboard , with little concern for the anchorage.

Having anchored hundreds of nights, and been on a mooring a couple hundred more over a period of 6 years or so, in both large crowded anchorages/ mooring fields and small, the only generators found noisy from other boats were the outdoor Honda type and some brands of windmills. Halyards and bad music were the more common noise pollution. Some of you guys need to get "out there" more.

caltexflanc said:

Having anchored hundreds of nights, and been on a mooring a couple hundred more over a period of 6 years or so, in both large crowded anchorages/ mooring fields and small, the only generators found noisy from other boats were the outdoor Honda type and some brands of windmills. Halyards and bad music were the more common noise pollution. Some of you guys need to get "out there" more.

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Amen.

FF writes that most are noisy and most have this and that. Well, I don't know where he's encountering his "most", but I sure know it's not true in our area and not true for us. Far more noise from other things. 100' from our boat and you don't hear anything and if you're closer than 100', then you're too close. Then the loudest noise we've encountered is those returning at 2 AM by dinghy from a bar, loud and obnoxious. We could have complained but we just ignored.

As to Halyards and bad music and windmills and other noises, they're at marinas too. Oh and then the fishermen getting up, preparing and leaving at 5 AM. They need to get out to the fishing holes early. Could they be quieter and more considerate than some are, of course. But I don't go boating to complain. It's part of life.

If one wants or expects complete silence, then they better get far away from civilization and the animal kingdom as well. I wonder if they complain about their neighbor's air conditioners on land or about the cars starting and running.

Batteries and Charging

FlyWright said:

I operate similar to kchace. I typically operate between 60-85% after day one with 2-3 hrs of gen time. It's faster to charge from 60-85% SOC than from 70-95%. I can't heat water (1300W) at the same time, either. Also, my Keurig is a high draw item for the first minute while it heats the water (1500W) so it gets solo gen time also. On shore power, it's the 30A dance...on my Honda generator, it's a 13A dance.

My previous fridge and the Nova Kool I have on order both operate 12V/120V and they switch automatically to 120V when it's present and back to 12V when the 120V source stops. You may not need to turn off the 12V CB when running the gen. What type of fridge do you have?

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I also have a Californian 34, with 2 8D House/Starting Batteries and a Nova Kool fridge.

If I am off the dock for several days, I am unable to maintain 100 charge with the original 20 amp charger and the generator running 2 hours a day.

The generator has lots of reserve capacity - I am thinking of going to a 40 amp charger. Any suggestions on the size of charger I should install?

jimk

caltexflanc said:

Having anchored hundreds of nights, and been on a mooring a couple hundred more over a period of 6 years or so, in both large crowded anchorages/ mooring fields and small, the only generators found noisy from other boats were the outdoor Honda type and some brands of windmills. Halyards and bad music were the more common noise pollution. Some of you guys need to get "out there" more.

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+1 ^

FF said:

"Called noise makers by sailboat owners who don't have them...lol

Today's generators with sound shields don't make much noise at all."

Most are quiet INSIDE the boat running it , but seldom are quiet OUTSIDE .

An exhaust can be made really quiet with a proper sized water lift muffler setup.

Most use undersized (cheaper to buy) water lifts to get it quiet aboard , with little concern for the anchorage.

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How do you figure most are under sized?

Most, if not all, come with mufflers that have inlets and outlets that match the ID size of the exhaust hose coming off the genset.

Do you see a wide range in the physical size of the muffler bodies offered here based on the same size of the inlet/outlet exhaust hose connections: Centek Industries - Products

It's not like you can get a significantly larger muffler with the same size inlet/outlet fittings on them.

Pretty disgusted at what I see as inefficiency in gensets.
I have a 7kva genset which according to online calculators churns out 290 amps at 24v.
I have a 5000va inverter/120amp charger so it wont take all the amps.

What are you supposed to do with the extra juice?
Looking forward to having my 2250 watts of solar hooked up by weeks end, THAT will be efficiency as no diesel being wasted generating something I can not use.

I was impressed that with 8 x 220ah 12v batteries and the above mentioned inverter that I could run a 500 liter 2 door samsung fridge/freezer, watercooler and icemaker plus a second bar fridge (for the hell of it) and all pumps, lights tv, radios etc and the battery bank dropped close to 10%/day.

Starwatch said:

I also have a Californian 34, with 2 8D House/Starting Batteries and a Nova Kool fridge.

If I am off the dock for several days, I am unable to maintain 100 charge with the original 20 amp charger and the generator running 2 hours a day.

The generator has lots of reserve capacity - I am thinking of going to a 40 amp charger. Any suggestions on the size of charger I should install?

jimk

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Do you have an inverter? Better inverters have a built in battery charger that switches from charger to inverter when either the generator or shore power is disconnected. Units like the Magnum Energy have programmable chargers that allow you to set the charge rate (amps) based on the size of your battery bank. Mine will do up to 125 amps. The actual maximum charge rate will vary based on the battery amp capacity (not CCA [Cold Cranking AMPS]) and whether its lead acid or some form of maintenance free battery. Checking the battery manufacturer's website should give you their maximum recommended charge rate.

Ted

"100' from our boat and you don't hear anything and if you're closer than 100', then you're too close."

New England anchorages may be an eye opener for you, as will many in the Bahamas.

JimK

The cost benefit of buying a larger charger depends on the amount of time you spend at anchor. If it is just a few days a year buy a small, perhaps 40 amp charger and run the generator for a few hours.

If you spend substantial time at anchor consider a combination charger inverter which will provide a 100 or 125 amp charger. This plus you current 20 amp charger will top up the batteries quickly.

Stand alone chargers greater than 40 or 60 amps become expensive.