Other than weather, why have a lower helm?

Seems like flying bridges came on after awhile, meaning ....many(most, all????) early pleasure boats didn't have them.


If they started off slow, and caught on for a reason...just maybe....in the minds of some....they have their uses.

Nomad Willy said:

If you can't see from the lower helm you've got a poorly designed boat...............

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Perhaps, but you already own it.

Looking at the photo of your boat, I don't think you have a good view of close up crab trap markers and debris. The flybridge is similar to the tuna tower on fishing boats but shorter. The higher up you are, the better view you have.

Each boat is different and in each case the lower or upper helm may be better and more practical.

Have used Bay Pelican for 17 years, never as a day trip boat, always cruising. During that time I have been on the upper deck where the flying bridge is located three times while traveling (not docking). Crossing the Big Bend from the Florida panhandle to Clearwater, a 30 hour trip in which the autopilot was set and ignored for hours. The water was flat as glass and we spent time relaxing on the upper deck while underway.

On the Erie Canal, our daughter, then in her twenties liked the upper deck and since the navigation was simple we used the flying bridge.

In the Mona Passage, at night, when all hell broke loose. Ten foot waves and a loose boom (snap hook opened). Thought I might get killed as it would have been very unlikely that I would have been recovered if thrown off the upper deck.

Because of our boat and our usage of the boat we prefer the Pilot House. In fact we do not allow someone on the outside of the boat underway at night or when the waves exceed five feet (which is most of the time for us), unless it is an emergency.

MurrayM said:

Toying with the idea of a minimally outfitted (steering, throttle, shifter) station to be used while standing on the saloon roof.

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Before you go to the effort, secure some way to hang on while standing on the roof. Then let your wife drive while you hang on for dear life. Might work fine on a flat calm day.....how many of those do you get. Smaller boats tend to have faster snap rolls.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Before you go to the effort, secure some way to hang on while standing on the roof. Then let your wife drive while you hang on for dear life. Might work fine on a flat calm day.....how many of those do you get. Smaller boats tend to have faster snap rolls.

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Nope...the two of us will be photographing.

Couple days ago we saw a grizzly crossing a 1nm section of Gardner Canal, and sea lions feeding from what spilled out of the mouths of humpback whales. No way she's going to pass on those opportunities, or me if I had the right camera/lens combo!!!

Calm days? Enough...google 'Kitimat', click on map, then pan out

Why not take your photos from the deck? We take a step out of the pilothouse to get on deck to take photos, whatever.

Bay Pelican said:

In fact we do not allow someone on the outside of the boat underway at night or when the waves exceed five feet (which is most of the time for us), unless it is an emergency.

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Wow. You normally have waves in excess of 5'? I would find that tiresome in a hurry. What type of waves are these?

markpierce said:

Why not take your photos from the deck? We take a step out of the pilothouse to get on deck to take photos, whatever.

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Because, sometimes we are very close to shore and/or rocks, so immediate access to the controls is a must.

MurrayM said:

Because, sometimes we are very close to shore and/or rocks, so immediate access to the controls is a must.

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I found that was it was pretty easy to just step out of the pilothouse door on either side with my camera. I can get 180 degree view with the camera and avoid the boat if I want in the frame. I am also only a step away from the controls.

dhays said:

I found that was it was pretty easy to just step out of the pilothouse door on either side with my camera. I can get 180 degree view with the camera and avoid the boat if I want in the frame. I am also only a step away from the controls.

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Happy for you. My needs are different...picture a small bay (one or two boats can anchor size) with steep mountains on three sides...180 degrees isn't enough.

WesK said:

Perhaps, but you already own it.

Looking at the photo of your boat, I don't think you have a good view of close up crab trap markers and debris. The flybridge is similar to the tuna tower on fishing boats but shorter. The higher up you are, the better view you have.

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WesK,
Here is the view fwd from the center of the center window in the fwd cabin windows. There's absolutely minimal clutter like hand rails, big roll bar anchors ect and the top of the hull is low enough for a good view.
Could I see more from a FB? Certainly. But I don't think I need more visibility than I have. One of the reasons I bought this boat is that it's got good visibility. Being a sedan there is super visibility all around. Lower picture is from the helm.

dhays said:

I found that was it was pretty easy to just step out of the pilothouse door on either side with my camera. I can get 180 degree view with the camera and avoid the boat if I want in the frame. I am also only a step away from the controls.

Click to expand...

MurrayM said:

Happy for you. My needs are different...picture a small bay (one or two boats can anchor size) with steep mountains on three sides...180 degrees isn't enough.

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As an example, here's Badger anchored in Brim River, Gardner Canal...while underway we can get into spots much tighter looking for photo's. Also, if you step out one pilothouse door the whales will surface out the other...

dhays said:

Wow. You normally have waves in excess of 5'? I would find that tiresome in a hurry. What type of waves are these?

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In the Eastern Caribbean the trade winds coming from the east off the Atlantic are typically 13+ knots (day after day). This generates wind waves on the beam any time you cross between islands and are thus exposed to the Atlantic. The waves are on the beam almost always because you are traveling north or south and the wind is coming from the east.


This is mostly a sailboat world and the sailors love it. When waves drop below 1.5 meters (5 feet) it is trawler weather. We usually consider 2 meters as a no go situation unless we really want to get somewhere.

Many boats attempt to be ROOMARANS and have tiny cockpits.

So there is no way to enjoy the weather and water outdoors.

Climbing up on the roof is usually larger than the cockpit , but hot and breezy,

So the Oxygen Tent was invented ,

to give folks a view of the water, in air conditioned or heated comfort , with a really great thrill ride thrown in for free!

What makes boats fun to visit is the variety of choices.

Nomad Willy said:

Here is the view fwd from the center of the center window in the fwd cabin windows. ...One of the reasons I bought this boat is that it's got good visibility. Being a sedan there is super visibility all around. Lower picture is from the helm.

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Yep, that's about as bad as the forward visibility picture we had from the lower helm on our Mainship, about the same amount of bad as what we had with the express boat when puttering along, and slightly better than what we had with the express boat when on plane...

Not a criticism of your boat/boating style... but I couldn't guarantee getting out of our river safely through the crab traps with visibility only like that. And around here, a "float free" zone is treated simply as a mere suggestion when it comes to crab pots.

Lots of express boats around here, most avoid the traps, usually... darned if I know how they do it.

-Chris

MurrayM said:

Also, if you step out one pilothouse door the whales will surface out the other...

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Very true. I've found whales to be ridiculously uncooperative when it comes to photos.

Bay Pelican said:

In the Eastern Caribbean the trade winds coming from the east off the Atlantic are typically 13+ knots (day after day). This generates wind waves on the beam any time you cross between islands and are thus exposed to the Atlantic. The waves are on the beam almost always because you are traveling north or south and the wind is coming from the east.


This is mostly a sailboat world and the sailors love it. When waves drop below 1.5 meters (5 feet) it is trawler weather. We usually consider 2 meters as a no go situation unless we really want to get somewhere.

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Makes sense Marty. Definitely conditions where I would want a sailboat, or good stabilization. What are the typical wave periods with 1-2 meter waves? Given the shallow water I would imagine they would be quite short.

dhays said:

Makes sense Marty. Definitely conditions where I would want a sailboat, or good stabilization. What are the typical wave periods with 1-2 meter waves? Given the shallow water I would imagine they would be quite short.

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8-9 seconds. Water is not shallow. Eastern Caribbean unlike the Bahamas is quite deep. There may be a 200-300 foot shelf around each island but the water soon drops off to 1000-3000 feet.

Approach an island from a passage ( term for north south distance between islands which is exposed to the Atlantic) and the shelf with 200 foot water can be bumpy and rough.

Bay Pelican said:

8-9 seconds. Water is not shallow. Eastern Caribbean unlike the Bahamas is quite deep. There may be a 200-300 foot shelf around each island but the water soon drops off to 1000-3000 feet.

Approach an island from a passage ( term for north south distance between islands which is exposed to the Atlantic) and the shelf with 200 foot water can be bumpy and rough.

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Thanks for the info!

The best vessel to have for a clear view of your surrounding area would be:

MurrayM said:

Nope...the two of us will be photographing.

Couple days ago we saw a grizzly crossing a 1nm section of Gardner Canal, and sea lions feeding from what spilled out of the mouths of humpback whales. No way she's going to pass on those opportunities, or me if I had the right camera/lens combo!!!

Calm days? Enough...google 'Kitimat', click on map, then pan out

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You missed the point. Try standing there with the wife driving for a half hour to see it the amount of roll is tolerable or what would be required to make you feel stable on the roof.

Ted

Flybridge that wants to be a pilothouse. Glass windshield, full heat and air (2x16,000 btu). Great view. Accessed by stairs.

I don't have a lower helm, and I haven't missed it yet.

I solved the problem of choosing! It is nice to spread out a blanket for a nap though.

O C Diver said:

You missed the point. Try standing there with the wife driving for a half hour to see it the amount of roll is tolerable or what would be required to make you feel stable on the roof.

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Right.

Let's see...calm, flat conditions or protected nooks and crannies, it's a go. Thirty knot winds with waves rebounding off steep shores, no.

I get your point, but obviously "safety first" would be at top of mind.

Moonstruck said:

A flying bridge is a delight---------a delight for the dermatologists.

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Come on, Don! A lot of fly bridge boats have protection from the sun & weather! (Not to mention great visibility when in close quarters.)

BandB said:

Wifey B: The winning answer.

Now, define "bit of nookie"? That could lead to a wreck. Not that I'd ever do it but I've heard of people doing it while driving a car.....

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Years ago there was a sailboat in English Bay that changed its name after squaring off its pulpit on the side of a freighter.

Codger, don't like the ladder, but at least it has handrails. Prefer the deck view when docking.

"A lot of fly bridge boats have protection from the sun & weather! (Not to mention great visibility when in close quarters.)"

But its one HECK of a run to pass a dock line or release an anchor from the Oxygen Tent!

markpierce said:

Codger, don't like the ladder, but at least it has handrails. Prefer the deck view when docking.

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Mark, believe it or not, I prefer the ladder over molded in steps (the ladder is easier for the wife & me) & the "deck view can't compare with the fly bridge view!

Opinions Opinions,
But I'm glad some PO whacked the FB off Willy. Considered it a positive feature when I bought the boat. A good boat will have an excellent lower helm. But there are some that don't. The weight aloft is very objectionable IMO and can do w/o the windage too.

Think about it. If you were designing the best boat you could and someone came along and said "naw that's not best .. Lets raise the CG and put a sail up to challenge the skipper when maneurving around harbors". "And lets put the people where rolling motion is severe at times and at least maximum"

Clearly a stupid thing to do. So how does that become smart when the designer puts on a FB?