78puget-trawler
Guru
Lol!!
Interesting boats
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Craig,
From a design standpoint a sheer line can be undesirable and that would be bad ... Or desirable and that would be good.
But for the most part we here on TF talk about the aesthetics of the sheer line. And it's hard to imagine a sheer line that's appealing to the eye that isn't a fair line. There are reverse curve sheers and multiple curve sheer lines but all must IMO be fair lines to be nice or even just good sheer lines aesthetically.
The type of sheer line is a matter (mostly) of taste and the blond/redhead function prevails. A good sheer line and a nice sheer line are not the same. IMO opinion of course.
From a design standpoint a sheer line can be undesirable and that would be bad ... Or desirable and that would be good.
But for the most part we here on TF talk about the aesthetics of the sheer line. And it's hard to imagine a sheer line that's appealing to the eye that isn't a fair line. There are reverse curve sheers and multiple curve sheer lines but all must IMO be fair lines to be nice or even just good sheer lines aesthetically.
The type of sheer line is a matter (mostly) of taste and the blond/redhead function prevails. A good sheer line and a nice sheer line are not the same. IMO opinion of course.
Al
Guru
- Joined
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- Vessel Name
- 'SLO'~BELLE
- Vessel Make
- 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
A lot of guys in Alaska would love to have that houseboat(Really?). And as a houseboat it's about as likely to tip over as an aircraftcarrier(Really:lol:?). Sometimes TF kinda comes off as a Yacht Club.(Really?
)
And there's the chance that he over stated his "problems" to enhance the sale appeal.
But money and health problems together are not a small thing. I have plenty of arthritis but someone in a wheel chair would be inclined to think of my problem to be small. Indeed I am thankful for the health I have .. at 76.(Really? only 76? And all this while I considered you an older senior citizen!Aaaaaaa
Al-Ketchikan-27'Marben Pocket CRUISER
Nomad Willy
Guru
What can I say Al ... Really?
Nomad Willy
Guru
We have 10 or 12 crab boats on our float. Most are stupid looking hack jobs that one would rather not see. But this Tollycraft conversion is very cleverly executed. He moved the part of the sides and the bridge top way fwd and then put together a small trunk cabin on the foredeck. The trunk cabin is more like the usual hacked up crab boats but by painting it black it sorta disappears. Very cleverly done IMO.
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Al
Guru
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- Vessel Name
- 'SLO'~BELLE
- Vessel Make
- 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
My kind of boat!
Found this in to days Seattle Craigslist. My kind of boat!!
Classic MacSalt Trawler Cruising Tug - 26'
Al-Ketchikan-27'Marben Pocket CRUSIER
Found this in to days Seattle Craigslist. My kind of boat!!
Classic MacSalt Trawler Cruising Tug - 26'
Al-Ketchikan-27'Marben Pocket CRUSIER
78puget-trawler
Guru
If it was 10 feet longer it would be really neat. As is, nice boat for a single guy.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Compared to the Willard 30 she's 1/3 the weight and 12" narrower. A very light boat w the same power as Willy. Looks nice though. With the hard chine and light weight would probably have a snap roll. Should have the little 3 cyl Yanmar 27hp engine. Or some other 32hp engine. The hull and hence the fwd berth is very narrow. I like it. It's a bit like a mini-Willard Voyager.
Al are you contemplating adding to the stern of your Marben?
Al are you contemplating adding to the stern of your Marben?
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Al
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- 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
No Eric,
not worth the investment. Slow SD or FD hulls sold in modern format to meet the perception of the marketing vision of "Trawler" in todays interpretation are built with square sterns. These boats as I stated, are 6.5 to 8 knot boats. They only exceed hull speed design by excessive power. You and I have agreed on that point. Only a select population I being one, understand, enjoy and appreciate the rewards of a fantail stern that allows the following sea to flow under softly allowing the hull to meet the sea in a easy motion that allows the less rudder action to compensate for the yawing.
Having witnessing the ability of fiberglass shops to extend hulls within cost and finished product allows the thinking that was expressed were that cost within the budget.
Making such a change to our boat would surely reduce any future sales to
parties in that select population mentioned.
On the other mention in my post of your rudder in relation to such a change.
The timing would be correct to make a upsweeping rudder to match the new fantail form.
Always liked seeing the tip of the rudder under a fantail.
As we mentioned in other post, the added ballast we installed have settled our hull down in all sea conditions. Yawing in following seas have been slowed as reflected in rolling in the yaw of a following sea.
Our current rudder appears larger to those of similar rudders viewed on various hulls in our class of boat.
I suppose Eric, the comment on the extension is another version of 2 foot 'itis', a chronic illness of boat ownership.
Al-Ketchikan-27' Marben pocket-CRUISER
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From your post Al
Only a select population I being one, understand, enjoy and appreciate the rewards of a fantail tern that allows the following sea to flow under softly allowing the hull to meet the sea in a easy motion that allows the less rudder action to compensate for the yawing.
Please add me to your list
Ted
Only a select population I being one, understand, enjoy and appreciate the rewards of a fantail tern that allows the following sea to flow under softly allowing the hull to meet the sea in a easy motion that allows the less rudder action to compensate for the yawing.
Please add me to your list
Ted
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78puget-trawler
Guru
Classic boats
This weekend in LaConner, is the classic car and boat show. More cars than boats but there were some really nice boats too. Love the 32 Chris Commander, stunning. Really loved the Holiday, a 1946 Monk design "troller cruiser". A Vic Franck boat, Comrade was there and a couple other CC boats and the Scamper.
This weekend in LaConner, is the classic car and boat show. More cars than boats but there were some really nice boats too. Love the 32 Chris Commander, stunning. Really loved the Holiday, a 1946 Monk design "troller cruiser". A Vic Franck boat, Comrade was there and a couple other CC boats and the Scamper.
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78puget-trawler
Guru
Columbia River bowpicker fish boat.
Love the Comrade. That was in my YC for many years, owned by judge Story Birdseye http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990809&slug=2976387
I think his son owns it now.
Keith
I think his son owns it now.
Keith
78puget-trawler
Guru
Yes, Robert was aboard today and we talked a while about the boat. Its funny because I was walking down the dock looking at the boats when I heard part of a conversation between he and a fellow on the dock, they mentioned Doc Freemans store and as some of you know Doc was my grandfather so I perked right up and barged in on the conversation. We had a nice chat about old times on the Lake Union waterfront scene, where I grew up.
Nomad Willy
Guru
No Eric,
Only a select population I being one, understand, enjoy and appreciate the rewards of a fantail stern that allows the following sea to flow under softly allowing the hull to meet the sea in a easy motion that allows the less rudder action to compensate for the yawing.
Having witnessing the ability of fiberglass shops to extend hulls within cost and finished product allows the thinking that was expressed were that cost within the budget.
Making such a change to our boat would surely reduce any future sales to
parties in that select population mentioned.
On the other mention in my post of your rudder in relation to such a change.
The timing would be correct to make a upsweeping rudder to match the new fantail form.
Always liked seeing the tip of the rudder under a fantail.
As we mentioned in other post, the added ballast we installed have settled our hull down in all sea conditions. Yawing in following seas have been slowed as reflected in rolling in the yaw of a following sea.
Our current rudder appears larger to those of similar rudders viewed on various hulls in our class of boat.
I suppose Eric, the comment on the extension is another version of 2 foot 'itis', a chronic illness of boat ownership.
Al-Ketchikan-27' Marben pocket-CRUISER
Al, agreed re the "illness".
But a simple extension will be only part of the modification unless the extension is only 2'. One would need to extend the keel, prop shaft and rudder.
You can achieve the FD hull w a square stern by simply "warping" the bottom. As long as the transom comes up out of the water FD will be achieved. You could just ramp up the bottom aft till the transom is out of the water .... w/o any extension at all. Then you'd have an overpowered boat and need to repower down to about 35 to 40hp.
Too much work. Just go buy a FD boat. Any Albin 25's in Ketchikan now? They are quite small though. That's why we have the Willard.
Al
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Al, agreed re the "illness".
But a simple extension will be only part of the modification unless the extension is only 2'. One would need to extend the keel, prop shaft and rudder. {Not necessary- I have viewed several gillnet boats that have been extended six to eight feet in a 34 foot hull leaving the wheel/rudder as is. No appreciative difference or not enough to cause concern. Looks a bit weird though}
You can achieve the FD hull w a square stern by simply "warping" the bottom. As long as the transom comes up out of the water FD will be achieved. You could just ramp up the bottom aft till the transom is out of the water .... w/o any extension at all. Then you'd have an overpowered boat and need to repower down to about 35 to 40hp. {Eric, all of this paragraph is confusing, I really have no idea of what you are attempting to describe,
Too much work. Just go buy a FD boat. Any Albin 25's in Ketchikan now? They are quite small though. That's why we have the Willard.
Al-Ketchikan, 27' Marben-Pocket CRUISER
Nomad Willy
Guru
Hi Al,
Sorry about the confusion. More simply put if you reshape the stern whereas the transom is out of the water you've got a FD boat and that can be achieved by lengthing the hull or not. And if you go from SD to FD you won't need as much power .. probably about 40% less depending on the design.
Yup you can leave the rudder and keel as is but having all that mass well aft of the rudder will make for a poor handling boat. If a quartering stern sea is pushing the stern downwind the rudder will be quite ineffective. But there is a commercially built boat that I think that was done to. The Gulfstar looks for all the world like that's what they did. Probably had a ready made mould and then decided to build a bigger boat.
Sorry about the confusion. More simply put if you reshape the stern whereas the transom is out of the water you've got a FD boat and that can be achieved by lengthing the hull or not. And if you go from SD to FD you won't need as much power .. probably about 40% less depending on the design.
Yup you can leave the rudder and keel as is but having all that mass well aft of the rudder will make for a poor handling boat. If a quartering stern sea is pushing the stern downwind the rudder will be quite ineffective. But there is a commercially built boat that I think that was done to. The Gulfstar looks for all the world like that's what they did. Probably had a ready made mould and then decided to build a bigger boat.
Al
Guru
- Joined
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- 'SLO'~BELLE
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- 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler(extended to 30 feet) Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
I agree to your response given a extension length that was excessive to the overall. One would or should I'm thinking have professional review of any anticipated lengthening or have personal interaction with a similar existing boat already modified.
That said after conversation with a couple of those gillnet boat owners who seemed satisfied with the outcome.
Thanks for the conversation Eric.
Always a bit of enjoymentAl-Ketchikan 27'Marben-pocket CRUISER
Nomad Willy
Guru
Hi Al,
I'm just talk'in theoretical ideal. I usually do.
I was lucky. I had to repower so actually got to research the power requirement and I spent quite a bit of time doing that.
For most it's not worth the effort to repower an old boat just to be ideal. And to others it dosn't even matter. And for others, (like yourself) other things are more important. Many (perhaps most) don't like higher rpm. To me it's totally immaterial. With X amount of w ...... this is not on thread topic. I'm out.
I'm just talk'in theoretical ideal. I usually do.
I was lucky. I had to repower so actually got to research the power requirement and I spent quite a bit of time doing that.
For most it's not worth the effort to repower an old boat just to be ideal. And to others it dosn't even matter. And for others, (like yourself) other things are more important. Many (perhaps most) don't like higher rpm. To me it's totally immaterial. With X amount of w ...... this is not on thread topic. I'm out.
Were you acquainted with Lee Knudson? My dad had a boatbuilder account there from when he was building an Ingrid and it transitioned to me. Lee was a great guy, sad to see him (and the business!) decline.
Keith
78puget-trawler
Guru
Sure, knew Lee and Pete, Bob and Norm the mechanic. I even found receipts from Doc Freemans on the boat I bought last spring! I worked at the store a bit while still in HS around 1970. When they moved the store to Ballard it was over, just took a couple years to finish it off. The original store was a great place to pick thru stuff and make offers and find bargains. The whole bldg. has been converted to office space now, all changed. Fremont Boat is still there of course for moorage and Fremont Tugboat, my cousin Erik's company now is there and thriving. Docs son, my Uncle Mark is about 82 now and is still active but not on the boats anymore. He is busy writing books and running the tugboat "museum", building models and having a pretty good time for the most part.
Nomad Willy
Guru
78,
My father moored his 103' boat alongside the Edison Tech boatbuilding school. That was about 1950.
I rode my bicycle from the Ravenna district down to and around the lake when the Gasworks was a refinery.
I sure remember Doc's. Was most often crowded in the store. Wish we had stores like that now.
My father moored his 103' boat alongside the Edison Tech boatbuilding school. That was about 1950.
I rode my bicycle from the Ravenna district down to and around the lake when the Gasworks was a refinery.
I sure remember Doc's. Was most often crowded in the store. Wish we had stores like that now.
Nomad Willy
Guru
78puget-trawler
Guru
Eric, we traveled some similar paths for sure. I walked around Lake Union by myself when I was 6 years old. Its about 6 or 8 miles if I recall. I left our houseboat on Fairview E. and stopped at Fremont for cookies with my grandma, and finished the trip in time for dinner. This was of course about 1959, I sure would not let a 6 year old do that now, might not make it home. Times have sure changed. What was your dads boat and the name of it?
78puget-trawler
Guru
That's a good looking old Chris Eric, what dock is she on?
That's a nice boat...In early 1990's friend of mine had a similar Chris. His was from early 40's and had been commissioned as govt boat during WWII. I and a couple others helped him redo it's bottom. Fun project, lots of effort.
dhmeissner
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Could that have been this?
