Teak Deck thought

What if you leave the teak and cover it with a couple sheets of FRP. You could install a border around of maybe 1" x 1/2" plastic around the outside edge the same thickness as the edge of the teak deck. Remove everything from the deck lay the FRP down attach it to the Teak deck with mastic. Then glue the edge to the the FRP. Reinstall railing and such!
The FRP would be very strong with the teak "underlayment". May need to apply some type of none skid. it would be one piece and should be completely waterproof!

What do you mean by "frp" ?

kulas44 said:

What do you mean by "frp" ?

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Fiber Reinforced Plastic .... i.e. fiberglass

Teak is an oily wood. Bonding could be a issue.

They are sheets of (fiberglass reinforced plastic) used often in commercial kitchens on the walls. 100% water proof!

Island15 said:

They are sheets of (fiberglass reinforced plastic) used often in commercial kitchens on the walls. 100% water proof!

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Maybe, but you still have to bond the material to the teak.

It sure seem as if it would be a lot easier that removing the teak and re fiberglassing. With the teak under the FRP it would be very strong! You can get a 5 x 9 sheets that would cover my aft cabin completely one piece! Maybe two days work. The sheets are under $100 dollars.

Just trying to think outside the box a little. Why would it need to be a solid bond? Would a edge bonding work like on a floating pergo floor? If the TDS caulking sticks to the teak why couldn't you use that as a bonding agent?

Island15 said:

Just trying to think outside the box a little. Why would it need to be a solid bond? Would a edge bonding work like on a floating pergo floor? If the TDS caulking sticks to the teak why couldn't you use that as a bonding agent?

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Go for it. And let us know how it works out after a year or two.

Yeah, teak as a core material.....never tried that due to the oil as Capt. Bill noted. I guess you'd also be encapsulating the caulk, no? I guess that might help with expansion and contraction. Hard to predict but it certainly is thinking out of the box.

With the cost and trouble of redoing decks, worth a try. TDS may not be all that different to some other polyurethane sealant/adhesives, which cost less.

How would you seal the edges to keep water from sneaking under the teak?

Why would bonding be an issue? The teak is bonded to a glass deck now; even if screws are also used, there is still a bonding coating as well. If it works under the teak, it should work on top surely? Would it be wise to remove the caulk and sand flat first?

Almost all TT do not have real "teak decks" they have a thin teak overlay , usually stuck on as an option ,to a plywood deck structure with a thin GRP over coating..

This teak paint job is very pretty but it is a huge danger to the underlying deck the boat was built with.

The simplest repair is a roofing shovel to put the overlay in the dumpster and a couple of layers of GRP to seal and stiffen the usually soft deck .

If the teak deck look is important gluing on teak like decking looks fine.

Might be worth a try. Not sure how long it would last . Teak decks are installed in individual strips . They expand and contract on their own separately and the caulk between helps with the expansion and contraction . It might work . I would probably sand the teak flat and acetone it right before bonding the FRP sheet to dry out any teak oil that will be on the surface .

I use lots of the fiberglass wall covering stuff (available at the Despot) for all kinds of stuff that are not walls. I sand the nubbles off the finish side for good bonding and I inevitably use the backside, after sanding, for the 'show' side. It paints perfectly well. Examples: shower ceiling; lining the under-sink cabinet where grunge, leaks and spilled soaps collect; non-structural patches; the roof surface and window detail on a Little Free Library; pop-in window shades on the sailboat; custom electric box covers (where the stock ones would be ugly).

This stuff is basically gelcoat with glass fiber reinforcing. It's pretty weak and has a really poor resin-'glass ratio and the 'glass fiber is basically 'chop' - unoriented short lengths. It's only about 1/16" thick - not counting the nubbles.

I think this stuff would be a terrible choice for use under foot, particularly without a decent bond to the substrate. I think this stuff would be an adequate choice for fiberglass wall repair where you would despair at the work involved to get a decent-looking finish. I think this stuff would be an adequate choice for finishing plywood panels presuming the bond was something good, like epoxy.

Bonding to 30-year-old Teak is not much of a problem. Bonding new Teak to fiberglass decks is not much of a problem, either, as many of us have noticed. Ditto gluing Teak to Teak or other wood species, presuming appropriate glues and control of differential expansion and contraction. Ditto sealing new or old Teak, presuming appropriate sealers.

Covering Teak decks in fiberglass is certainly do-able; but I would use adequately-reinforced 'glass sheets, not wall covering. Coating Teak decks in epoxy is certainly do-able, too. A marina buddy epoxy-coated his whole laid Teak deck and the house, too, on his 1963 Hinckley B-40. I don't know the details of the actual material, epoxy is not normally UV resistant, but there are plenty of epoxy-based exterior industrial coatings.

Pic: the roof and gable surfaces are the Home Despot frp. The windows are Home Despot Lexan sheet. The window details, arches and all, are Home Despot frp. The basic structural panels are pressure-treated plywood. All glue and laminating frp is epoxy. Glue holding the frp to the Lexan is cyanoacrylate (Krazy Glue). Paint is exterior-grade latex and sign-grade acrylic.

DHeckrotte said:

This stuff is basically gelcoat with glass fiber reinforcing. It's pretty weak and has a really poor resin-'glass ratio and the 'glass fiber is basically 'chop' - unoriented short lengths. It's only about 1/16" thick - not counting the nubbles..

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If we are still talking Home Depot, then the product is actually fiber reinforced PVC, not polyester. Epoxy bonding is questionable, Polyester bonding ain't gonna happen. The stuff is also somewhat brittle and will fracture unless the substrate is near perfect (ever seen a perfect boat ?).

It's a great product but not for this application. I have used it to cover all the plywood bulkheads in Our New Boat.

"ever seen a perfect boat ?"

Sure, as has almost every boat owner I've known.
Interestingly enough, they always seem to be 2' bigger, AND/OR owned by someone else

J&L

Boatpoker, the stuff I buy at the Despot is definitely polyester-'glass. Nubbly on the intended show side and dull, flat on the intended black. Smells like polyester when sawn or sanded, epoxys perfectly well. Here's the stuff at the Despot: 4 ft. x 8 ft. White .090 FRP Wall Board-MFTF12IXA480009600 - The Home Depot Lowes sells it under the trade name Sequentia: Shop Sequentia 48-in x 8-ft Embossed White Fiberglass Reinforced Wall Panel at Lowes.com I've never seen it in anything but white, but apparently there are lots of colors (or, should I say 'colours'? {lots of Canadian cousins and classmates}).

You're quite right to say that PVC won't accept being glued with epoxy (for long) and there certainly are PVC and other plastic wall covering products.

DHeckrotte said:

Boatpoker, the stuff I buy at the Despot is definitely polyester-'glass. Nubbly on the intended show side and dull, flat on the intended black. Smells like polyester when sawn or sanded, epoxys perfectly well. Here's the stuff at the Despot: 4 ft. x 8 ft. White .090 FRP Wall Board-MFTF12IXA480009600 - The Home Depot Lowes sells it under the trade name Sequentia: Shop Sequentia 48-in x 8-ft Embossed White Fiberglass Reinforced Wall Panel at Lowes.com I've never seen it in anything but white, but apparently there are lots of colors (or, should I say 'colours'? {lots of Canadian cousins and classmates}).

You're quite right to say that PVC won't accept being glued with epoxy (for long) and there certainly are PVC and other plastic wall covering products.

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I would have preferred polyester because I know how to adhere it but at Home Depot in Canada all they had was the PVC stuff that comes in white, grey and tan.

PS. You don't have to say "colours" but you do have to spell it that way

We are currently "fixing" our 37-year old teak decks with fiberglass. Our deck construction from the bottom up goes: 1/8" layer of fiberglass, 3/4" marine ply, 3/8" fiberglass, and finally the teak strips screwed down. We will be using MAS Epoxy and KiwiGrip for the project, and are making a video of the entire project as well. My friend is the former owner of MAS Epoxy (he just sold the company a couple years ago, but is being retained for 5 years as the GM), and they have done this many, many times over the years.

After addressing a few areas of delamination, we will completely sand the decks. Then wash them down thoroughly with acetone. We'll then apply a 6 oz. layer of fiberglass cloth with three different applications of resin/hardener. First layer of low viscosity resin needs to be applied fairly thin so the fiberglass bonds directly to the prepared teak without "floating" in resin. That's the secret to a good bond with the teak. The glass fibers themselves need to bond with the teak as much as possible. A couple more coats of resin and the fiberglass will be ready for sanding/painting. We will then mask off areas and apply KiwiGrip according to directions.

According to my friend at MAS, we will be able to still discern the teak strip lines under the KiwiGrip, which is something we would like for aesthetic reasons (part of the reason we like the look of teak). The KiwiGrip guys at PYI, however, are pretty sure we will not be able to see the teak lines under as the non-skid coating is fairly thick. But as we're not a sailboat worried about heeling, we can use a thinner layer of KiwiGrip. The thicker the layer, the more aggressive the roll-on texture becomes.

The end result will be a "semi-permanent" fix. They have boats going on 10-15 years and are doing just fine (not necessarily with the KiwiGrip, though). For us it's about time, expense, and the desire to retain that underlying teak "look". Plus, if it does fail in a few short years, then we will do the more traditional method of ripping the teak off, filling a few thousand holes, fiberglassing and KiwiGripping that.

We will post the video here once we are done.

Moonfish: sounds very interesting & we look fwd to the video.


While off-the-shelf Home Depot sheets might or might not work, what about getting a fibreglass shop to make a custom sheet (or sheets) to a foredeck or side-deck template? Could then be made the appropriate thickness/strength and painted with non-skid in the shop. Brought aboard as a finished product, it could be glue'd to sanded-down /acetone-cleaned old deck. Wouldn't this be feasible and preferable to expoxy/FRP work being done over several days on board, then on-board fairing and painting and non-skid?

Teak decks are installed in individual strips .

In theory yes , however to speed installation of the overlay some builders would take wide boards route calking strips and have hundreds of plugs installed for "the look"

A very large board would have perhaps a dozen real mounting screws , and some goop under those screw holes.

Mostly depends on the week the boat was built.

Aquabelle now your talking.
When I said FRP I was also hoping for some other suggestions.
I was thinking maybe a thick sheet of plastic maybe 3/8". But I like your thought. Sometime we get stuck into thinking well that the way they always do it! That doesn't mean there can't be better a solution!
Just make sure the teak is stable and secure. Install a solid sheet over the top seal the edges and get cruising!
You could even have the sheet built a little larger and cut to fit!

I didn't have time to read all threads. FRP over teak sounds like good idea. Added weight though with both materials layered. My thought for adherence of FRP to teak would be consummate amount of 1/2" monel or SS staples embedded about 3/4 way into teak (i.e. leaving just slight space between teak and staple top for resin to get underneath). Power stapler would accomplish this fastening system quickly. Seems that approx 3" o.c. staple layout in the field with closer tolerance at edges would suffice. Then simply apply the fiberglass and resin. Bingo... newly surfaced, waterproof, solidly attached strata deck! Ain't life grand!!

Crane Composites transport truck trailer panels come in sheets big enough so only two or four sheets would be needed for most of our boats, and even come in a thicker, high impact textured surface called, "scuff panels".

FRP Panels by Crane Composites

Crane's Armortuf looks good as well;

http://www.cranecomposites.com/tr/liners.html

I'll be taking the teak off to deal with some soft core issues, but these panels are intriguing.

FF "Almost all TT do not have real "teak decks" they have a thin teak overlay , usually stuck on as an option ,to a plywood deck structure with a thin GRP over coating..

This teak paint job is very pretty but it is a huge danger to the underlying deck the boat was built with."

There must be a different inventory of Taiwan built boats in the East than here is SW BC, as so far, in 22 yrs of ownership of a Taiwan Built boat, and the observation of so many others, I have not yet seen a single bTaiwan built boat that has the deck covering FF described above.

What I have seen, is that most have a 1/2" thick, properly laid covering, over the molded structure. In almost every case, the teak boards are laid in a black polysulfide bedding material and screwed every 12" or so.

There have been several threads here of TF members pulling up their old, failing decks and replacing, and notably, none of those threads show anything like FF is describing. What those threads have shown, is as I have encountered.

koliver said:

FF "Almost all TT do not have real "teak decks" they have a thin teak overlay , usually stuck on as an option ,to a plywood deck structure with a thin GRP over coating..

This teak paint job is very pretty but it is a huge danger to the underlying deck the boat was built with."

There must be a different inventory of Taiwan built boats in the East than here is SW BC, as so far, in 22 yrs of ownership of a Taiwan Built boat, and the observation of so many others, I have not yet seen a single bTaiwan built boat that has the deck covering FF described above.

What I have seen, is that most have a 1/2" thick, properly laid covering, over the molded structure. In almost every case, the teak boards are laid in a black polysulfide bedding material and screwed every 12" or so.

There have been several threads here of TF members pulling up their old, failing decks and replacing, and notably, none of those threads show anything like FF is describing. What those threads have shown, is as I have encountered.

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I've surveyed hundreds of TT's and each of them has been exactly as FF described.

Boatpoker "I've surveyed hundreds of TT's and each of them has been exactly as FF described."

Good to know. Now I can put FF's apparent disdain for "TT" boats in proper perspective.

Art said:

My thought for adherence of FRP to teak would be consummate amount of 1/2" monel or SS staples embedded about 3/4 way into teak (i.e. leaving just slight space between teak and staple top for resin to get underneath). Power stapler would accomplish this fastening system quickly. Seems that approx 3" o.c. staple layout in the field with closer tolerance at edges would suffice. Then simply apply the fiberglass and resin. Bingo... newly surfaced, waterproof, solidly attached strata deck! Ain't life grand!!

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Art: that might be the way to do for in situ creation of a fibreglass-over-teak deck. I was asking about creating the fibreglass deck off-boat/in-shop, even maybe finishing the non-slip in-shop and then bringing a completed side deck/foredeck overlay on board and fastening this down. I don't see why it couldn't be bonded to the teak using a suitable flexible goop with screws into the teak (not right through into the core!) to hold it down where there is significant camber or to help adherence to the goop.

But I don't understand much about fibreglass...obviously! Would a mold be needed? If so, creating the mold for a one-off would be very expensive?