Carolena
Guru
IMHO, Jeff has created an excellent product in ActiveCaptain, I enjoy seeing his posts here (in addition to his newsletter) and I hope he decides to stick around. Hearing different perspectives is how we educate ourselves.
Marina Reservations
- Thread starter CaptTom
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Jeff will stick around. He was just venting against a very inappropriate comment.
Oh, I like his current boat. Not real sure what it is in total. But definitely unique.
Talking about inappropriate comments...
Of course that's not true. It sort of misses the entire tech revolution over the last 40 years.
Technology at its best doesn't succeed because it's cool. It succeeds because it saves money. Every time.
So when businesses used to have 15 people in an accounts receivable department, it was an easy decision to automate the business practices allowing 5 people to handle the same workload. They didn't do it because they wanted a computer nearby. They did it because it saved money.
I'm personally involved with a particular marina that's spending 12 hours a week on a particular data collection they want for their own marketing. They deeply know what they're doing (I love the group) but the mechanism to collect the data didn't exist. Well, until now. By switching to Dockwa, they now get the data collection automatically. Put all the numbers together and it becomes a no-brainer to purchase the extra software - they save money by doing it.
Other marinas are spending many thousands of dollars a year on advertising. They really have no idea whether it works or not - many forms of advertising are like that. So along comes a tool like Dockwa and now they can use their advertising and get immediate feedback about whether it's working or not. Think that matters to them? They're probably not saving money - the cost of Dockwa is being taken from the traditional advertising budget. But the result is the same because they're making more money because it's more effective. That doesn't end up raising the rates to anyone.
I'm not defensive about these things. They're facts. It's the way tech works. To be doom and gloom about the future, changes, new ideas, or the potential to make things better is the sign of someone done with life. When someone can only reflect on how good it used to be, well, that's your sign...
Of course that's not true. It sort of misses the entire tech revolution over the last 40 years.
Technology at its best doesn't succeed because it's cool. It succeeds because it saves money. Every time.
So when businesses used to have 15 people in an accounts receivable department, it was an easy decision to automate the business practices allowing 5 people to handle the same workload. They didn't do it because they wanted a computer nearby. They did it because it saved money.
I'm personally involved with a particular marina that's spending 12 hours a week on a particular data collection they want for their own marketing. They deeply know what they're doing (I love the group) but the mechanism to collect the data didn't exist. Well, until now. By switching to Dockwa, they now get the data collection automatically. Put all the numbers together and it becomes a no-brainer to purchase the extra software - they save money by doing it.
Other marinas are spending many thousands of dollars a year on advertising. They really have no idea whether it works or not - many forms of advertising are like that. So along comes a tool like Dockwa and now they can use their advertising and get immediate feedback about whether it's working or not. Think that matters to them? They're probably not saving money - the cost of Dockwa is being taken from the traditional advertising budget. But the result is the same because they're making more money because it's more effective. That doesn't end up raising the rates to anyone.
I'm not defensive about these things. They're facts. It's the way tech works. To be doom and gloom about the future, changes, new ideas, or the potential to make things better is the sign of someone done with life. When someone can only reflect on how good it used to be, well, that's your sign...
I don't speak about the good old times, i speak about now. I'm forced in a system that i not asked for but indirect also pay the bill for.
I'm almost a full time traveller, (Reiziger = Reysigher = Traveller) and on a daily basis see how wordlwide prices rice because middle-man offer services i don't ask for.
But yet prices have risen at a slower rate the last ten years of your life than any other period of your life. You're seeing the world in the way it seems to be impacting you. However, that's not the world in general.
go-planing
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No Jeffrey, my comments are not "inappropriate". And they are quite accurate. You obviously profit from what you do and you try to convince the folks paying the bills that it's free. Efficiency. Might be well hidden, but nothing is free...and it always ends up coming out of the pockets of the boater. Also puts people out of work. In this case the additional and more serious cost is the subtle wreckage within the boating environment resulting from unending information glut. You think "progress" is always good. You are mistaken. You want to help me...I don't want your help. Doesn't matter, if you can sell it, you will....and I will pay. Unfortunately, I won't have a choice.
My observation is that you are both defensive and offensive. The personal insult in your last paragraph fits "inappropriate". Way out of line my friend, but true to form. You should work on that. Regarding your refrain in an earlier post as to why you bother posting here...you do it because it's in your interest. That is very clear. Again, I believe the Commercial section was specifically created as a place to hawk your wares. And don't give me the "I didn't start this, I'm only defending my product". Take it to the Commercial section.
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go-planing
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Based on what data? I sure don't see it in the specialized segment of recreational boating. Yes, a slump in boat purchase prices, but that's only because boating taken on the whole has become prohibitively expensive.
O C Diver
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Yes and savings is at the cost of personal attention. If I were booking a room at Motel 6, then the basic level of this technology would be fine. But I'm not booking a room at Motel 6. My booking is more like buying an airline ticket. I want to see what choice of slips are available. Is there a spot on the transient floating dock? Can a get a slip within reach of a pump out station or maybe fuel? Maybe Dockwa is version 1.2 and a few years from now it will more resemble ticketing for a flight. Pick your slip; prearrange services, schedule a pump out or fueling on arrival. To my mind Dockwa may make it easier to find some marinas (although the majority clearly aren't there), it may make booking easier, but it takes customer service a huge step backwards. Jeff, I find it hard to imagine from your posts that you're not a discerning person when it comes to where your slip is. If I'm staying at a marina with an outside bar and maybe a band playing till midnight, I have no intentions of being slipped next to the night life. Guess my fear is the concept of all slips are the same in the software of Dockwa. Simply, if I'm paying $2+ per foot, I want a human to spend <5 minutes reserving me a slip that I will be happy with and my boat will fit into. If all they have is next to the band stand, then save us both the aggravation of me going there and then having to find some place else.
Still love Active Captain and appreciate most of your innovations.
Ted
Every measure you want to find. Just look up any chart of worldwide or US cost of living increases by year. Reiziger wasn't referring to just boating, but boating was always expensive and some aspects of it are up in cost and others not so.
go-planing
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Ah, the government cost of living numbers....right. Don't seem to see it in my personal expenditures....absolutely not in the discretionary recreational realm, where I think Reiziger was focused. That's what I was getting at when I asked about what measure....general, discretionary...that sort of breakout.
I know nothing about your personal expenditures or Reiziger's. I do use government and other numbers, all which are consistent in what I said. They reflect cost of living and inflation. However, they certainly don't reflect it individually for every person. I know my cost of living has gone up much more but it's because of choices and decisions I've made. If I still lived where I did with the same boat I owned then, my costs wouldn't be up.
When you dream this in the day i would like to know what you dream in the night.....
You're right. That's an issue, especially if you're going to a marina for the first time. I definitely get it. Karen just wrote about it in her Marina Minute last week.
Make sure you realize that ActiveCaptain is not Dockwa. I just think there are some great innovations at work with them that will create new things I'd like to see. We're not doing online reservations. I think a separation between the business booking and reputation management is important and lacking in other areas (like restaurants and hotels).
nowakezone
Member
A concept ESPN seemed to give little thought to when they chose to affiliate with the SEC. The backlash was huge.
Karma being what it is, the following season the often-ESPN-maligned Big Ten punished the SEC in bowl games culminating with Ohio State pounding Alabama to become the first UNDISPUTED National Champion. There will always be only one first UNDISPUTED... oh... um, I guess I've gotten off track. My bad.
Anyway, I agree... one should not be in the booking business and the reputation management business. It's asking for trouble.
Semi-I happen to find your comments more than "inappropriate", I find them offensive. It seems your chief complaint is that some of your favorite boating areas are now much busier than before, thus affecting your enjoyment of those areas. Somehow, that is the result of too much information easily getting into apparently undeserving hands through technology as represented by Jeff and AC. First, I don't recall Jeff ever saying he does not make money from his development of AC. I would be highly disappointed in his business acumen if he did not. What he has said is that there is no direct cost to you or me, or any user of AC. And that is indisputable-I downloaded AC, have used it pretty much since it first came out, and it has never asked me for a credit card #. So, yeah, some marine company of some kind may pay Jeff for something related to AC, and in some way shape or form, that small piece may end up as an indirect cost of some service or product I buy. Is it material? Does it really make any difference to me whatsoever? No.
It costs jobs? Technology has "cost" jobs since the earliest hominid figured out how to lash two poles together so it only took two guys, rather than four, to haul a Mammoth hindquarter home to the lady of the cave. Man tends to figure it out over time, new jobs replace old ones. As I write this, I am sitting in a nice room in my favorite hotel in D.C. I look around and there are two double beds rather than just the one I need. There is a big screen cable TV, but I watch all I want on my computer. There is a mini-bar refrig I don't use, cost maybe $1,000. There are towek sets for 6 in the bathroom. There is a guy in a palace guard uniform with 8 brass buttons to open to door for me. I don't need any of that. Why is all that indirect cost in the room rate I pay? And it is the same with every single dollar you spend, every single thing you buy. Some indirect costs that do not benefit you directly are included in what you pay. And you want the real kicker? I had a hard time getting a room here, had to actually ask for a favor. Why? Because I see a lot of folks here who never heard of this hotel until they got a laptop and discovered Travelocity or Expedia. And now my favorite little place in DC is crowded. Damn! But my brother, a senior exec in the company that owns it, seems to be just fine with it. Wonder why?
You should get over it and find a better target for your misplaced anger.
It costs jobs? Technology has "cost" jobs since the earliest hominid figured out how to lash two poles together so it only took two guys, rather than four, to haul a Mammoth hindquarter home to the lady of the cave. Man tends to figure it out over time, new jobs replace old ones. As I write this, I am sitting in a nice room in my favorite hotel in D.C. I look around and there are two double beds rather than just the one I need. There is a big screen cable TV, but I watch all I want on my computer. There is a mini-bar refrig I don't use, cost maybe $1,000. There are towek sets for 6 in the bathroom. There is a guy in a palace guard uniform with 8 brass buttons to open to door for me. I don't need any of that. Why is all that indirect cost in the room rate I pay? And it is the same with every single dollar you spend, every single thing you buy. Some indirect costs that do not benefit you directly are included in what you pay. And you want the real kicker? I had a hard time getting a room here, had to actually ask for a favor. Why? Because I see a lot of folks here who never heard of this hotel until they got a laptop and discovered Travelocity or Expedia. And now my favorite little place in DC is crowded. Damn! But my brother, a senior exec in the company that owns it, seems to be just fine with it. Wonder why?
You should get over it and find a better target for your misplaced anger.
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I hope this discussion waked some people that are using all these "gadgets" at the end all recreation boaters pay the costs of all this, Jeffrey for sure calls this progress.
I stay far away from all these and promise that i will NEVER use them. A big plus for OpenCPN that is still clean from such add-ons so i can still use it......
Till now my primairy brand was Garmin, because of their bussiness model i changed over to an other brand and believe me in the sailing community i am not the only one who think this way.
I stay far away from all these and promise that i will NEVER use them. A big plus for OpenCPN that is still clean from such add-ons so i can still use it......
Till now my primairy brand was Garmin, because of their bussiness model i changed over to an other brand and believe me in the sailing community i am not the only one who think this way.
Oh, I definitely believe that in the sailing community there are others as anti-the world as you. But nothing you've said here is going to "wake" anyone. We'll continue to happily use those gadgets and select from those Jeffrey calls progress. In our case that means using AC, not using Dockwa. You do realize too that this isn't the sailing community here. It's Trawler Forum. We're not universally opposed to all progress.
danderer
Guru
Strongly agree.
If you choose the products you buy based on the manufacturer's "business model", rather than features, functionality and value, you are a fool.
Either that or you're just posting BS to impress someone.
go-planing
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Naw, you're not offended, you're just looking for a way to discredit.....which, by the way, greatly offends me.
I never said AC charges directly. But you tried to imply that I did...
Jeffrey made a remark in an earlier post as to how it's about the challenge more than the money and he specifically stated that there is no cost at all to me for AC and the like. That is incorrect.
I said information services have contributed greatly to the dumbing down of the boating environment. The Niagra Falls, effect on formerly nice small towns. That is indisputable in the area where we boat. Maybe not so much in big cities. I didn't say the recent hoards are unworthy, but it is obvious from the changes in the towns that the tourist interests are different than from ten years ago. No, I don't care for what this phenomena has left in its wake...and not just in boating.
No, the information revolution has not created new jobs for those who are displaced. They're on unemployment or working at hamburger joints.
Thanks for the long tutorial as to how AC and the rest of the information world make their money...but it's unnecessary...I get it.
What you use shows up as a direct cost to me through higher slip fees, parts costs, etc. You're quite happy with that. No, I don't send AC a check, but I do send them a user fee through hidden channels. You got that right. No, that's not OK with me, and no I will not "get over it". I'd much prefer that AC and the like charge you a fee. But that's not how the strategy works. Users (and that is exactly the correct word) get subsidized by the rest of us.
You got your hotel room through nepotism.
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dhays
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This thread has taken a serious detour. It certainly appears that there are some here who harbor some strong feelings regarding industry growth, social media tools, entrepreneurship, government economic numbers, capitalism, etc... It is unfortunate in some way when "others" invade our locations, activities, or organizations because it does change things. However, it helps if try to concentrate on the positive changes rather than dwell on the negative.
Reminds me of a couple decades ago when Washington and Oregon experienced a Californian invasion. Lots of money came North and created economic and social disruption. It seemed the folks that had the most trouble with it were the folks from CA that arrived just a few years earlier. They were unhappy that they were followed by their former neighbors who "ruined" the PNW.
Anyway, this may be a subject where we can just allow disagreement and let the subject lie without rancor.
Reminds me of a couple decades ago when Washington and Oregon experienced a Californian invasion. Lots of money came North and created economic and social disruption. It seemed the folks that had the most trouble with it were the folks from CA that arrived just a few years earlier. They were unhappy that they were followed by their former neighbors who "ruined" the PNW.
Anyway, this may be a subject where we can just allow disagreement and let the subject lie without rancor.
I sort of think you're the only one who sees it that way.
I just lived another example of how tech saves money. I'm having some dentist visits while we're refitting Red Head. So to my surprise, here in little Deltaville, VA, the dentist send you a text message 2 days prior to your appointment. You reply to that with a "C" or "Confirm" telling them that everything is still good. I love the idea of that.
Surely such a technological system tied into their appointments must have cost so much that their prices have gone through the roof, right?
Well, of course not.
While the system did add some cost, they found that 25% of people remembered about their appointments and didn't cancel/no show/etc so they more than made up for the cost of the software. In fact, it pays for itself in the first month, according to the dentist who loves talking tech with me in the chair.
They could have also put a staff member on the phone calling each person. In fact, unanswered text's do get a personal call. But the added expense of calling everyone way overshadowed the cost of the software add-on.
Of course that's how it works. Tech is implemented to save money or make more money in other ways. It always has and it always will...
I've given a handful of examples showing how, in fact, that doesn't happen anywhere with technology. I'm deeply involved with the business, finance, and planning of many marinas. The only time I've seen a slip price increase is when a marina severely discounted their slips because it was a crummy place that no visited. There are places we've helped - we told them what to spend money on and how to behave (it's a shame we have to do that some times). Lo and behold, business picks up. The marina starts getting filled so they increase their rates because the previous discounts are no longer needed.
I don't see that as a problem. I think that's win-win.
So can you provide any example where some type of technology was added at a marina and used by everyone else that resulted in slip prices increasing for you?
(I can't wait to hear this one...)
Only for you, as we boaters pay your income....
Jeffrey, why does you not admit that it doesn't interrest you a sh#t who pay the bill aslong as you has your income..
go-planing
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dhays,
Be careful about making assumptions regarding political or business leanings as you would more than likely get it wrong.
Why is it OK to force non-users to subsidize your use of sites like AC? Why not pay your own way?
I saw a news piece that Portland is planning to enact a tax (maybe already done) to discourage "outsiders" from purchasing property in the city.
Reiziger,
There is a reason for burying the cost as opposed to a direct user fee. It co-ops everyone who owns a boat...not just the ones who would be paying for a membership on the web site. Much wider net...potential for far more income.
Be careful about making assumptions regarding political or business leanings as you would more than likely get it wrong.
Why is it OK to force non-users to subsidize your use of sites like AC? Why not pay your own way?
I saw a news piece that Portland is planning to enact a tax (maybe already done) to discourage "outsiders" from purchasing property in the city.
Reiziger,
There is a reason for burying the cost as opposed to a direct user fee. It co-ops everyone who owns a boat...not just the ones who would be paying for a membership on the web site. Much wider net...potential for far more income.
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Again, answer my question. Show me how you pay. Give me just one example in real life.
We turn down a lot of income every day. Believe it or not, ActiveCaptain wasn't done to generate income. It just wasn't. We funded the company personally although it easily pays for itself today. It's one of the reasons why we were incredibly hard to compete against. We had the luxury of trying to do things right instead of satisfying some money or investor need.
You're just so angry - and I'm done answering your quips. You're just wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.
Yankee1
Member
In Connecticut!
We just recently made our first reservation using a service.
They are called Dockwa. I e-mailed them with our dates for Martha’s Vineyard, 12 hours later we were confirmed within 12 hours and we received an
e-mail. How easy is that
Paul
We just recently made our first reservation using a service.
They are called Dockwa. I e-mailed them with our dates for Martha’s Vineyard, 12 hours later we were confirmed within 12 hours and we received an
e-mail. How easy is that
Paul
