Batteries

How many batteries does it take to keep your toast eaten, hair drying, blender drink making first mate happy?

Hair dryer??? What's a hair dryer?
All kidding aside, my wife isn't the one who needs the battery capacity. I'm the one who insists on creature comforts while on a boat...
The water maker and refrigeration are big users as are stereo, iPad, iPhone and computer charging. When at anchor we routinely use 100 to 150 amp hours a day... Our bank consists of a pair of Lifeline 4D batteries of about 200 amp hours capacity each when new. They are actually great batteries if you keep them charged properly. In a perfect world, I'd like a third battery but no space for that on our sailboat...
The At 395 has 3 4D's but I have no idea what the refrigeration will consume...
Bruce

Pgitug said:

How many batteries does it take to keep your toast eaten, hair drying, blender drink making first mate happy?

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Enough, that's how many.

NO the question is how do you keep the reefer operating while cruising.

It is a 24-7-365 load , a monster compared to an hair dryer or radar oven.

When you solve the reefer hassle , and can go for a day or two in quiet, all it will take for the bride is a $150 inverter, and some wiring.

You need 4 batteries for each woman on board.

(4) 6v. Golf Cart batteries = 440 amp hours.
Daily consumption with fridge, electronics, lights etc when anchoring out is 120 ah so we're good for a couple of days. We don't use any AC when on the hook.

Plus 2 #31 start batteries for back-up.

We don't use any AC when on the hook.

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Even around here this time of year? No generator? Fans then, I take it?

The refrigeration is the key. Watermaker is used before generator is turned on so that its last 30 minutes are done while the generator is on. Washing machine is 50/50 sometimes just on inverter sometimes timed with the generator run. Coffee pot (750watts) is done on inverter. Tea pot 1000 watts is frequently done with generator on. Hair dryer is always done with generator on. Heat gun which has as much draw as hair dryer is usually done on the inverter. Generally the heat gun is run for less than one minute. Toaster generally done on inverter as its run time is short. (Another explanation is I make toast and coffee while the admiral is still sleeping.)

A toaster and hair dryer each pull 1,500 watts (less on low heat for the hair dryer) but only for a few minutes for the former and maybe 5 minutes for the later. A blender might pull half of that but only for a fraction of a minute. So all in all maybe 300 watt hours of energy or 30 amp hours from a 12v battery.


That is why all of the previous posts focus on refrigeration which can run from 50-150 amp hours daily depending on size, insulation and type.


David

IF you will be away from the power hose much , the first purchase should be an SOC (state of charge) meter .

This is a "gas gauge" for your battery set , and its $150 or $200 cost may save hundreds of pounds of batteries from being purchased and hauled on board, multiple times.

Here is one brand , $155 online, lots of others.

Bogart Engineering: home

www.[B]bogartengineering[/B].com/


BOGART ENGINEERING 19020 Two Bar Road, Boulder Creek, CA USA 95006 (831) 338-0616 • www.[I]bogartengineering[/I].com.

FF said:

IF you will be away from the power hose much , the first purchase should be an SOC (state of charge) meter .

This is a "gas gauge" for your battery set , and its $150 or $200 cost may save hundreds of pounds of batteries from being purchased and hauled on board, multiple times.

Here is one brand , $155 online, lots of others.

Bogart Engineering: home

www.[B]bogartengineering[/B].com/


BOGART ENGINEERING 19020 Two Bar Road, Boulder Creek, CA USA 95006 (831) 338-0616 • www.[I]bogartengineering[/I].com.

Click to expand...

I installed one of these in our 16' Airstream Bambi about 4 years ago. It has worked out very nicely!
Bruce

I have a good quality (when desired - illuminated display) multi meter wired into my house bank. Tells charge rate, batt-bank level, amp draw... etc.


Cost - Under $25

I just purchased and installed the Balmar Smart Gauge. We will see how well it works.

Victron makes a nice SOC meter also.

caltexflanc said:

Even around here this time of year? No generator? Fans then, I take it?

Click to expand...

folivier said:

Victron makes a nice SOC meter also.

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We don't overnite in the brutal heat we've had the past few weeks...Evening temps seem tolerable with some low draw fans....

I've been really happy with the Victron. All the info you need in a small, easy to install package. Alleviates my "Range Anxiety"... I could NEVER own an electric car!!
Sterling remote for my charger gives me all the charge info I need as well when at the dock..

Art said:

I have a good quality (when desired - illuminated display) multi meter wired into my house bank. Tells charge rate, batt-bank level, amp draw... etc.


Cost - Under $25

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How does a multimeter tell you amp draw? Is it measuring a shunt?

MYTraveler said:

How does a multimeter tell you amp draw? Is it measuring a shunt?

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By doing basic math calcs in my head from knowing batt bank level just before starting a draw (from something) and then watching bank batt level change once the something are drawing power off batts. These mental calcs are not 100% accurate... but, they give me an approximation.


IMO, that is all that is necessary to know about amp draw; unless one wants to get anal about something's particular amp draw... in that case, for detailed accuracy, other equipment is needed. Important thing with wet cell LA house bank batts (such as we have) is to always be able to know where their charge level is. At 50% I charge em back up to 100%. Multi meter is an inexpensive, easy to use and considerably accurate way to keep our LA house bank in good condition via instant access readings.

Unfortunately LA batteries never give an accurate voltage unless the surface charge has been worn off and the batteries are perfectly at rest which is hard to get on a cruising boat.

Then again...I too check the amperage of items on at anchor and can guesstimate battery state of charge within 20 percent or soafter 8 to 12 hours. My Balmar smart guage is having a hard time zeoing in because of how my batteries are wired....so my guess ranks right up there too....

After awhile...tech just fine tunes experience in many cases.

First thing I do when coming to boat is lift engine hatch for deep, deep down nose whiff. Then I check multi meter to see house bank level, Then turn on bilge blower for 10 to 15 mins (which runs off house bank). Then plug boat into dock power and start charger, fridge, hot water, and AC outlets. We often arrive late in eve so boat stays plugged in overnight into next morning when we leave for long weekend. Batts are then near or full 100% charge and once stbd engine's started the charge to house bank comes from there. By time we anchor house bank charge is fully over topped off.


We spend weekend with gen set generally running approx. 1 to 1.5 hrs. in morn and eve for cooking, water heating, house bank batt charging, and AC on to charge phones etc.


When we motor back to our slip we then plug back in with charger on till we leave. So... house bank is at 100% when we depart. With batts completely isolated via Perko switches till we return. However, there is a direct wire to a float actuated bilge pump.

Art said:

When we motor back to our slip we then plug back in with charger on till we leave. So... house bank is at 100% when we depart. With batts completely isolated via Perko switches till we return. However, there is a direct wire to a float actuated bilge pump.

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I stay plugged in all the time while at the dock. The Sterling 40amp charger has a modest 13V. "Idle" mode with an occasional conditioning cycle. My Batteries seem very happy...
Much more precise, intuitive and versatile than my old Charles Unit..

Heron said:

I stay plugged in all the time while at the dock. The Sterling 40amp charger has a modest 13V. "Idle" mode with an occasional conditioning cycle. My Batteries seem very happy...
Much more precise, intuitive and versatile than my old Charles Unit..

Click to expand...

Reason I keep unplugged and carefully away from any portion of boat touching any portion of dock with batteries also isolated is for reduced chance of galvanization on metal parts. Isolated boat's metal parts are happy parts when kept all alone with no to little chance of electric current accosting them! Batt bank stays fine till our next visit. Even after months away they are still reading over 60% charge when we return to bring them back to 100% charge

Lucky for my boat (and me) it berths in fresh water. Stray electric currents that may emanate from dock or other boats has little so no chance of reaching my boat's parts.

Every RV I've had or rented charged the house batteries off the main motor. Don't boats do the same thing, charge the house batteries off an alternator or generator on the main diesel(s)?

HeadedToTexas said:

Every RV I've had or rented charged the house batteries off the main motor. Don't boats do the same thing, charge the house batteries off an alternator or generator on the main diesel(s)?

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There are many different battery bank setups. Many boats charge their start battery(s) with the engine alternator and the house bank with battery charger or solar panels.

On my boat all charging (alternator, battery charger & solar is done directly to the house bank and any "overflow" power goes to the start battery via an automatic charging relay.

Our Tolly's four LA, group 31, East Penn mfg, deep cycle, house bank batts also start both engines. House bank is charged by stbd engine running, or by genset running with batt charger turned on, or with AC dock cord plugged in and batt charger turned on. Gen set's group 29 LA starter batt is charged by solar panel and by gen set alternator when it's running. As added safety I keep a group 29 LA starter batt in it's own batt box completely isolated from everything and charged by 1 amp charger when AC is turned on from dockside or gen set power. It, if needed, could also be hooked into the gen set's solar charge system.


And, our 15' tow behind Crestliner runabout with group 29 starter batt for its 50 hp Johnson o/b is always with us too. Its charged batt is therefore an option as well; if ever needed.

All our LA batts are East Penn manufactured and purchased at very affordable prices in our local Batteries Plus outlet. Our house bank is 7 yrs. old and going strong

Battery Redundancy... on many levels... Yahooooo!
Happy Batt-Charge Daze!! - Art

HeadedToTexas said:

Every RV I've had or rented charged the house batteries off the main motor. Don't boats do the same thing, charge the house batteries off an alternator or generator on the main diesel(s)?

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Yes, but... Many of us who live at anchor spend days without using the main engine. Thus the diesel generator, solar panels and wind generator are much more a factor than the main engine. Last year I spent 30 consecutive days anchored in the same place.

Bay Pelican said:

Yes, but... Many of us who live at anchor spend days without using the main engine. Thus the diesel generator, solar panels and wind generator are much more a factor than the main engine. Last year I spent 30 consecutive days anchored in the same place.

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YUMMMMYYYY!!

Heron said:

(4) 6v. Golf Cart batteries = 440 amp hours.
Daily consumption with fridge, electronics, lights etc when anchoring out is 120 ah so we're good for a couple of days. We don't use any AC when on the hook.

Plus 2 #31 start batteries for back-up.

Click to expand...

Essentially that is what we have and we are power pigs. I do use the genny in mornings to make coffee along with recharging my 24v bank. Usually takes about two hours to keep the coffee hot and completely recharge the 24v.

The 12v system is a different matter. I have a Xantrex 50 amp charger which is just about worthless. However, my 4each 150 watt solar panels start pumping current at daybreak and by around 9AM they output between 20-24 amperes and continue at that rate until the 12v banks are charge restored. Solar proved to answer all my recharge problems. Our 8.3 cuft fridge even has self defrost.

I am waiting for Atlantic Towers to ship and install a new hard top over the helm; the rear deck already has a hard top along with canvas enclosure. The new hard top will provide space for me to install another 4 panels. If so I will have to decide if I want to spit them such that 2 panels charge my 24v and add the other two to my existing 12v system. Additional panels for the 12 would be there to help in poor weather but for the most part the 12v charging is just fine as it now is.

Will continue to run Mr. Genny anyway for coffee. Oh I use a 2KW true sinewave inverter for AC for most of the boat plus an old Heart 24v inverter/charger for the 24v bank.

Bay Pelican said:

Yes, but... Many of us who live at anchor spend days without using the main engine. Thus the diesel generator, solar panels and wind generator are much more a factor than the main engine. Last year I spent 30 consecutive days anchored in the same place.

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Ahh, yes. That makes sense. And long spells at anchor do sound nice.

foggysail said:

Will continue to run Mr. Genny anyway for coffee. Oh I use a 2KW true sinewave inverter for AC for most of the boat plus an old Heart 24v inverter/charger for the 24v bank.

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With all that power, why do you run the generator just to make coffee? Pretty sure I've seen 12VDC coffee makers. I do use an electric drip brewer at home, but propane at our off-grid cabin and in every RV morning I can recall.

HeadedToTexas said:

...With all that power, why do you run the generator just to make coffee? Pretty sure I've seen 12VDC coffee makers. I do use an electric drip brewer at home, but propane at our off-grid cabin and in every RV morning I can recall.

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Some of us have espresso machines onboard.

HeadedToTexas said:

Ahh, yes. That makes sense. And long spells at anchor do sound nice.



With all that power, why do you run the generator just to make coffee? Pretty sure I've seen 12VDC coffee makers. I do use an electric drip brewer at home, but propane at our off-grid cabin and in every RV morning I can recall.

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Weeell--- I also enjoy taking showers using hot water which gets heated via the generator.