Marina Reservations

The most recent Active Captain newsletter addressed a new attempt to set up a marina reservation service.

I was wondering what other cruisers think of this idea.

I have mixed feelings. I always say "the most dangerous thing you can have on a boat... is a schedule." I do this for relaxation. I hate the thought of having to book months in advance to get a good spot. I hate the thought of rushing to reach a destination I'd planned out days or weeks ahead of time. I'd rather see what the weather brings each day, and decide where (and if) I can go that day.

On the other hand, I've called places the day of, or the day before, and been very glad I did, because other boats were turned away. And a reservation makes sense if you're staying at a place for more than just a night or two.

Add this to the Florida anchoring debate, and the discussion about good anchorages filling up with "destination" moorings, and I wonder what the future of cruising will look like. Will we have to plan each day of each trip months in advance? Will there be no spontaneity left?

In Southern California there are very limited amounts of marinas, especially those that have guest stocks. If you don't call in advance, often months in advance around here, you are not getting in.

We do have a schedule at the start of trips and do make reservations. However, the schedule is always in pencil (actually it's in keyboard and easily erased). Now, I have no interest in a reservations system. I prefer speaking directly with the marina, confirming exactly what is available and what we're reserving and also explaining that our schedule is subject to change and we'll notify them as soon as we're aware of any change. When it's well in advance we just talk about a time period and what's available.

As a result, I've never encountered any issues. We have always been able to adjust schedules with no problems. The key we find is that we establish communication early so they are aware of our boat and our needs and we've spoken.

Now, understand we use marinas 99% of the time so different than most here.

As to why I'm not interested in a system, I did a lot of business traveling and have done very little hotel traveling personally by comparison. I never used the chains website or 800 number as I found much better information in speaking directly to the hotel and better pricing. I'll give an example and how I think it would work on marinas. Making reservations in NY at the Marriott Marquis, I averaged a savings of $50 a night by making them directly. They would look at bookings and decide. I've had times I got huge discounts for certain nights and then paid full for the last night. Similarly, I use to travel regularly to the Atlanta area and stayed in one specific Holiday Inn. I'd negotiated a corporate rate. But you could call the 800 number and they'd have no rooms. Meanwhile I could call the hotel and speak to an older lady, Mary, and always get a room. Why? They knew they'd have some no shows and rooms available after 6. She would advance use one of those for a regular customer she knew. One other thing. I never got a room on the side of the train tracks.

We also confirm our reservations several days in advance and on the day we expect to arrive. If you read AC you'll often see notes as to which dock is preferable and we'll discuss that.

There are some booking sites out there, but we don't use them.

Here is a rather typical situation for us. This Friday we're heading to a location two days earlier than planned. We just made the change of schedule a couple of days ago. We'll be there two nights. It was no problem changing and we confirmed our needs. It gave them time to plan who goes where as well.

We wait to book until we have a pretty good idea, at least within a day or two. Even then though we speak to them in advance so when we call to book they remember us.

In answer to your concerns, we never let the schedule rule. We do like to allocate time to various places though and have some sort of plan. Plans are made to be changed, but we also know the impact of changes. I can tell you where we plan to be docked on October 25, but I can almost guarantee there will be changes. Regardless we've spoken to the marina to know they will be open. There will be no problem getting dockage, not in Kentucky in late October. We haven't made a reservation. Right now we have actual reservations for the next 17 days. I can guarantee some of those will change, but none by more than two or three days.

Marina reservations aren't non-refundable like discount hotel rooms or flights. They are more of the nature if I arrive on those dates, you confirm you will have dockage for my boat.

I know all the opinions about no schedule. I don't agree with that completely. I like to schedule. I agree that you don't let the schedule control you.

Fletcher500 said:

In Southern California there are very limited amounts of marinas, especially those that have guest stocks. If you don't call in advance, often months in advance around here, you are not getting in.

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I found that in all of California from Sausalito to Marina Del Rey to San Diego. We had reservations well in advance and they all changed slightly as we got closer to the dates. If you're already on their bookings then a lot easier to change than it is to make last minute.

If Active Captain wants to setup a reservation system to guarantee me a space in my favorite anchorages, I'm all for it!

Ted

On our current trip, I made one reservation. Turns out that weather forced me to cancel the day of. I called them to tell them. Because it was weather related, and because they are just nice folks, they gave me a voucher for another stay at some point in the future. We will definitely use it as we like this location. We might even use it on the way back home from this trip.

I like to be able to make reservations, but usually only a day or two in advance. Most of the time I am calling them from a cell phone while on the boat so a computer based system wouldn't get much use from me. Like BandB, I like to be able to talk with them directly if I can.

If Active Captain wants to setup a reservation system to guarantee me a space in my favorite anchorages, I'm all for it!

With a Bahama style pair of anchors , most anchorages will hold 4 -5 x as many boats.

It will happen naturally if anchoring pressure is high.

I just returned from a two month cruise. I got turned down twice because the marina was full. I usually call that morning or sometimes the day before. As many have posted, I don't usually know when I will get to a certain place, weather being the most important factor.


I found just a very few places demanded a credit card number to hold a reservation. Most were much more casual about it.


This was on the AICW and Chesapeake Bay.

Obviously certain stretches of water deserve respect.

But huge segments of the Atlantic ICW are passible all of the time.

I have only lost a couple weather days in dozens of trips in boats over 35 feet.

If I want to be at a particular marina at a certain time plus or minus a day or so...I will make reservations up to 2 weeks out. Only 1 marina has ever asked for the credit card up front with a strict cancellation policy. Several marinas during the holidays let you come and go on the honor system, calling them with a credit card when they open back up.

I have already made reservations for Ft Pierce City Marina for a month stay this winter. It's where I want to be at a given price and a certain stretch of time. They recommended that I call as soon as they start accepting reservations. Every year they have slips available on a daily basis most of the time, but if staying longer than a few days, you may have to move slips....and that's not always fun depending on your schedule and weather.

FF said:

With a Bahama style pair of anchors , most anchorages will hold 4 -5 x as many boats.

It will happen naturally if anchoring pressure is high.

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I was ignorant about various types of anchoring growing up and knew nothing about the Bahamas even existing. However, on the lake when I did anchor, it was always two anchors. Just seemed logical to avoid swinging and stay in place.

Fast forward to coming to the coast and finding out how people anchor, one anchor and swing. Seemed to the math side of me to be a horribly inefficient use of space. Now, I do understand the reasons. However, no question anchorages would hold more boats with Bahama anchoring. I would not say 4-5 times as many but at least twice as many.

One caveat and that is do I want more boats in an anchorage? I don't, even if I did Bahama anchor. Crowded anchorages already have too many boats for the escape many look for in anchoring. Doubling or tripling that number doesn't seem like an attractive prospect. I still like the idea of Bahama anchoring as it would maintain a greater separation.

How common is it really to encounter nowhere to anchor? Even if not your first choice, isn't there generally another nearby option?

Last night there were 24 boats anchored in Laura Cove and room for a few more. I never would have believed it if I hadn't have seen it. Yes it is way too crowded for the sense of getting away, but in many ways this location is like staying in a resort location. Lots of people but you put up with it to be at the location. I still enjoyed going to Hawaii even though there were other folks there.

Here is where we are.

http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0XFEED9u0VL4TPFHuPeHfeoxH9qFZrY4I

O C Diver said:

If Active Captain wants to setup a reservation system to guarantee me a space in my favorite anchorages, I'm all for it!

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Just so it doesn't get confused, ActiveCaptain isn't setting up any reservations. We're currently saying that Dockwa is the only online reservation app with a model that doesn't charge the boater or the marina (other than taking the credit card charge). They also mimic the cancellation policy of the marina unlike most of the other online reservation apps who don't allow cancellations at some point.

There's nothing exclusive about our relationship with Dockwa. Nearly every one of those app companies have come to us asking for collaboration. Most of them charge a big percentage to the marina for taking the reservation. We wouldn't endorse that because there's no margin in marina financing for commissions. It would only drive the costs of slips up. Since Dockwa doesn't do that, they got our vote of approval.

As of yesterday, ActiveCaptain reviews show up on the reservation page in the Dockwa app. They used our developer API to integrate ActiveCaptain data into their product. We'll likely be adding some new capabilities from this because we can now detect "verified" stays through their app.

I am not familiar with dockwa. Do you have a link?

Here on the West Coast of BC Canada Most Marina's are for transient people staying for a day or two on their way North and it's not uncommon that you have to book 1>2 months ahead and always with a credit card.
Farther up North destinations like Dent Island | BC Salmon Fishing Lodge you should book 3 months ahead There are lots of places up the coast like Dent Island https://activecaptain.com/quickList...Bay_Lodge_and_Marina_Echo_Bay_BC&i=4127765892
Pretty fancy
Been there and all I can say is that got to do it at least once in your life

dhays said:

I am not familiar with dockwa. Do you have a link?

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Let this play out:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dockwa

Jeffrey S said:

Just so it doesn't get confused, ActiveCaptain isn't setting up any reservations. We're currently saying that Dockwa is the only online reservation app with a model that doesn't charge the boater or the marina (other than taking the credit card charge). They also mimic the cancellation policy of the marina unlike most of the other online reservation apps who don't allow cancellations at some point.

There's nothing exclusive about our relationship with Dockwa. Nearly every one of those app companies have come to us asking for collaboration. Most of them charge a big percentage to the marina for taking the reservation. We wouldn't endorse that because there's no margin in marina financing for commissions. It would only drive the costs of slips up. Since Dockwa doesn't do that, they got our vote of approval.

.

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So, Dockwa doesn't charge a commission. How then do they make their money? Answer, which I just found. For the basic booking only feature they charge 2.5% for the credit card processing and 1% service fee. For the premium service they're trying to promote, they charge $299 per month additional.

And nothing you've just said really impact the opinions we and others have expressed here. The opinions weren't aimed at AC but at the concept of online reservations for dock space. I just walked through the entire process on Dockwa and it felt so cold and impersonal as opposed to me just picking up the phone and calling.

In the hotel industry you'd die without the various online travel sites. They do too things. One is they will buy and block spaces at special prices. The other is they get the same standard travel agent percentage as anyone else. They need that to meet their occupancy goals. All their business is transient.

Marinas may or may not need that. Right now it's a very small part of ther business and the concept isn't big enough to force their hand. At this point there is no online booking site that can say they will increase a marina's business. Now, the day may come that will have changed.

My posting was due to this being posted by someone else:
"If Active Captain wants to setup a reservation system..."

My point was that ActiveCaptain is not setting up a reservation system. We license our data to Furuno too but that doesn't mean we're making radars.

If you don't like what Dockwa has created, don't use it. They have the best financial model and their system is quite good technically (my opinion). Most every other company doing this type of thing charges marinas 20-30%. Dockwa charges 3.5% but handles the secure credit card transaction part removing those fees from the marina. They make their money from marinas by providing optional services. If the marina doesn't want those services, they pay nothing. This is very similar to ActiveCaptain's model which has worked exceptionally well and hasn't caused dockage fees to increase.

There's no devil here - you don't have to use Dockwa - you can always call the marina.

Thanks for the link Jeffrey and for the clarification.

I am brand new here today so I should probably intro myself in the proper forum, but this thread just caught my eye so I'm posting here first. Lol, I have to say it's quite a coincidence.

Btw, the 2015 thread on Stand up engine rooms was fantastic!

I saw the Active Captain newsletter about Dockwa and checked it out. Why should I care what their business model is or how they make money? What I care about is how does the service benefit me? It's not nearly as good as MarinaLife.

I'm presuming if it's okay to mention Dockwa it's okay to mention MarinaLife. You will not find a better service for online or mobile marina reservations. I don't work for them, and I gain nothing by saying this other than passing on to fellow boaters my opinion about the excellent service I have used for years. Marina slip discounts, fuel discounts, reviews, etc etc., you can speak to them personally and they are always great. Again, MarinaLife is a fantastic service.

Here's why the business model matters...

If a business charges the marina 20-30% for the reservation you make, the marina obviously receives less money. From working with thousands of marinas, I can tell you, their current pricing does not include the ability to shave 30% off the top. They'll do it here or there as a test to see what happens.

So let's say one of them (some having tried this for 15 years), become successful and marinas start receiving a larger percentage of reservations through these online systems. What will happen?

Marina owners tell me directly that they'll be forced to raise dockage fees just to get the money they're already getting pre-online reservations.

For me, if dockage rates go up, I want the marina to get the income so they can put the money toward their facility. Better yet, I don't want the dockage rates to go up. If the website deserves the money, then they should charge the boater directly for the service they're providing to the specific boaters using the service.

All of this is much different from the hotel marketplace. There, hotels have been paying travel agents for decades. Their pricing already reflected the 30% fee paid to the organization bringing the reservation. Travelocity slid into that model to collect the fees without changing the basic costs to anyone. It worked there quite well - Travelocity, Expedia, airbnb...all hundred million dollar companies and bigger. This same success (relative to the boating market) has avoided anyone who has tried to create an online reservation system for slips. The reason? Their business model.

Now we're seeing startups realizing that it was their business model that wasn't working. So they're figuring out ways to try something new. And I fully admit, some of the ideas for these new models came from me after discussions with nearly all of them. We receive no income, fees, commissions, or any money whatsoever. I just think these models are better for boaters. Me.

Coincident with our newsletter release yesterday morning, SlipFinder removed their fee to boaters by the afternoon (how about fees to the marina?). Others are looking at reducing their fees because they see that this new model Dockwa is using knocks them out.

There's nothing exclusive we're doing with Dockwa. But it takes guts to change everything and try again. It takes some technology talent too which seems to be lacking in some of these companies. There again, Dockwa's software developers, who I worked with directly, are some of the best I've ever shared code with.

The business model matters. Of course it does. Always follow the money.

While you don't have a Dockwa exclusive, Jeffrey, you do now have a vested interest in their success. They're the only one using Active Captain on their web site. You are also quick to jump on their competition and you clearly have a close relationship with Dockwa, so while it's not Active Captain's system and that was a misrepresentation, it is the system Active Captain is promoting.

Now, I, as a boater, have the same issues with their competitors that I have with Dockwa. I will continue to book directly. I do think Dockwa's business model is unique and different but I'm not sure it's sustainable. It only works for them if marinas go for Dockwa Connect. I'm not sure how many marinas will go for $299 per month, even if the system is worth it. The larger marinas have systems. The smaller ones can't afford it. Only time will tell. Regardless of their rates, I don't think any of the other systems have been great success stories either from a profit standpoint.

I'll stick to booking directly until a system proves to provide me benefits beyond those of direct booking. I once used an online reservations provider for hotels but that was when they bought up enough space in prime hotels that they could actually offer lower prices than the hotel itself. They did that only in major cities. That framework doesn't exist today.

And as one does express concern over the profits going to the marina, there is one and only one way I, as a consumer, can insure that. That is by booking directly with them.

I've expressed my views and look forward to those of other boaters.

I am not a consumer of online booking systems for marinas. Since AC have a relationship with dockwa, of course Jeffrey has a peripheral interest. No one should be surprised by that nor should it bother anyone. Jeffrey explained why he made the business decision he did. I certainly don't see that as slamming dockwa's competition, just explaining his rational.

I would happily work with any other online reservation app developer as long as I didn't think their model was hurtful to boaters. Today there is only one like that. Perhaps there will be more. This is no different than the 200 apps that currently support the basic ActiveCaptain data. In fact, the API's being used by Dockwa are he same ones as Garmin.

If you have occasion to make a reservation for a slip this summer/fall, I'd suggest trying Dockwa and see directly what the experience is like. I remember watching Steve Jobs give a demo of selecting and purchasing a flight through an internet connection in 1994. I could hear people around me wondering who would ever do that online. Things change - there are some benefits and some things coming that have yet to roll out. It's worth trying...

Jeffrey S said:

I would happily work with any other online reservation app developer as long as I didn't think their model was hurtful to boaters. Today there is only one like that. Perhaps there will be more. This is no different than the 200 apps that currently support the basic ActiveCaptain data. In fact, the API's being used by Dockwa are he same ones as Garmin.

If you have occasion to make a reservation for a slip this summer/fall, I'd suggest trying Dockwa and see directly what the experience is like. I remember watching Steve Jobs give a demo of selecting and purchasing a flight through an internet connection in 1994. I could hear people around me wondering who would ever do that online. Things change - there are some benefits and some things coming that have yet to roll out. It's worth trying...

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I actually tried it a couple of hours ago just to see what the results would be.

Traveling down the ICW and back this year for the first time I had the chance to use both Marina Life and Dockwa...they both worked very well. Marina Life had very good customer service, some decent discounts at marina's as well as cruising itinearies based on various miles/day to help plan. Dockwa was a simple reservation function but worked great..


I found them to be very helpful as I was able to make the reservations when it was convenient for me...many times at night as I was planing the next couple of legs. I also liked having an e-mail confirmation in hand.

However...in my opinion none of the on-line services have reached a point where they have a high enough percentage of the marina's in a location for any of them to be a resource you can really count on. Recently we were looking at Newport and one of the services had 1 partner marina and the other 3 (don't remember which) but none had the one I wanted (based on reading Active Captain reviews).

It will be interesting to see how they shake out and who ends up with the marina's ...for now its something I'll check when planning and any of the services that have Active Captain included will save me a step.

J105 said:

However...in my opinion none of the on-line services have reached a point where they have a high enough percentage of the marina's in a location for any of them to be a resource you can really count on.

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Bingo. You're right.

First, recognize that Dockwa has changed their entire business model and app within the last couple of months - so an experience months ago, isn't today's experience. It is completely free for a marina to get involved with them - if a stay completes, there is a credit card fee which the marina would have to pay themselves so it's basically free to use Dockwa. That will help other marinas to try it out. Our endorsement and Marina Minute article (our weekly newsletter to marinas) will help too:
The Marina Minute™: Slip Reservation Apps

Jeffrey S said:

Bingo. You're right.

First, recognize that Dockwa has changed their entire business model and app within the last couple of months - so an experience months ago, isn't today's experience. It is completely free for a marina to get involved with them - if a stay completes, there is a credit card fee which the marina would have to pay themselves so it's basically free to use Dockwa. That will help other marinas to try it out. Our endorsement and Marina Minute earticle (our weekly newsletter to marinas) will help too:
The Marina Minute™: Slip Reservation Apps

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In this less then perfect world NOBODY works for FREE

Not even Jeffrey........

Reiziger said:

In this less then perfect world NOBODY works for FREE

Not even Jeffrey........

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+1

Many of us volunteer our time for some of our pursuits, be they personal or professional. Sometimes we forget that some folks actually make a living doing things that others may only dabble in.

I have been a decent photographer in the past, but I am not a professional photographer and the pro's should be compensated for their work and their work protected from piracy.
I have towed stranded boaters in the past but I am not a professional rescue tower, those that are should be paid for their work.
I have been a decent musician in the past, but only occasionally have been paid for it. Those that do it for a living should be paid for their work and have their work protected.
I have developed websites and done some limited amount of coding way back in the day. It was all volunteer. Those that do this for a living shouldn't have to apologize for doing so.

Many folks get confused when our avocation overlaps with other's vocations. A professional photographer may love photography as I do. They may help other photographers and freely share information with them. However for the pro, that is their business. I don't have to buy their work, but shouldn't denigrate them for figuring out how to turn my hobby into a livelihood.

Reiziger said:

In this less then perfect world NOBODY works for FREE

Not even Jeffrey........

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That's just argumentative. 13,000 marinas are using ActiveCaptain for free. 1.5 million boaters are using ActiveCaptain for free. Our model, like Dockwa's, is that if the marina wants additional tools and help, they pay. The problems come when someone along the line is lifting part of the money without providing an equivalent service/benefit. For what it's worth, we get marinas asking to pay us more - first business I've ever created where that happens. Just got an email asking us this morning. THAT's the way business should work, isn't it?

So if I write a slip reservation system (would take about 1 week to get working and 1 month to get pretty nice), should I be able to lift 30% off every reservation that comes in? Do you think marinas would be writing to see if they could pay a higher percentage?

Of course not. That's a very short term view that will end in total failure as demonstrated by the 6 or so companies doing exactly that by trying to lift commissions.

It will be interesting to see how and where this goes. For now, I'll stick with dealing directly with the marinas. Had a bad experience with one of the biggest online hotel booking companies. My credit card information was stolen / sold. Not a good way to start a business trip. Also, many of the marinas on the AICW that I use, now recognize me as a repeat customer and are willing to give me a preferred spot or an easy T head for an early departure the next day. Some how I don't see the personal touch conveying through online booking. Finally, I prefer to control the level of public information about where I am while boating. Can easily see how this information of where I've stayed and where I'm heading along with contact information, being sold.

Ted