Military connections

Since Canada's military might is only a skiff and a balloon better than Iceland, I have zero military exposure and don't know the difference between a frigate and an f bomb. That doesn't however, stop me from being fascinated with the hardware and entertained by the personnel.

Periodic reference is made here to past service, like Northern Spy being an "A-Ganger." Whatever that is, it sounds interesting, maybe even illegal.

So, I wonder a couple of things; how many of you transitioned from navy to recreational boating? With seemingly lots of pilots on board, how many moved from AF to private or commercial and one step further, from pilot to skipper?

I also imagine many of you, because of your military lives, have come within a few hours, days or miles of each other in the past without knowing it.

I grew up on boats in the PNW, then went into the Navy to see the World, and ended up spending the last 16 years of my service on Whidbey Is., so once on a boat always on a boat. Now that I'm retired we are looking for a boat to live-aboard.

Hawgwash said:

Since Canada's military might is only a skiff and a balloon better than Iceland, I have zero military exposure and don't know the difference between a frigate and an f bomb. That doesn't however, stop me from being fascinated with the hardware and entertained by the personnel.

Periodic reference is made here to past service, like Northern Spy being an "A-Ganger." Whatever that is, it sounds interesting, maybe even illegal.

So, I wonder a couple of things; how many of you transitioned from navy to recreational boating? With seemingly lots of pilots on board, how many moved from AF to private or commercial and one step further, from pilot to skipper?

I also imagine many of you, because of your military lives, have come within a few hours, days or miles of each other in the past without knowing it.

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A gang would be Auxiliary's Division, they would be tasked with maintenance and repair of equipment in spaces that were not main propulsion. Kind of a thankless task in that they tend to "own" gear all over the place which is often related to others gear, sea water cooling for instance that might used in a chill water system for electronics. That breaks the "twidgets", electronics types, would blame them for their equipment being down. They would also own things like the refrigeration units, steering, possibly arresting gear that sort of stuff. Combined with electrical who owned the entire power distribution and generation gear made for some very over-tasked folks.

To compensate for the said over tasking, liberty ports tended to be, uhmmm....colorful? A gang often taking a lead in whatever the entertainment Du-joure happened to entail. Some of which may not have met local, or really any requirements for sanitation, decency, or even self-respect depending on the time and the port involved. Submariners holding the absolute pinnacle of that lofty task.

It is a hard earned reputation that would likely amaze many with some of the shenanigans.

Wifey B: Great Question. Hope you don't mind but I decided to also incorporate it into a poll. Once again, I stole someone else's brilliant idea.

I'm not a military anything. I really don't think they'd want me because I'm not good at taking orders......

Following orders is important, but the US military has been noted superior in many instances because of the emphasis is really independent thinking through the ranks.

Historically that was a punishable offense in many militaries.

At least that was my experiences with the superior leadership I encountered and the reference materials I used in my career.

psneeld said:

Following orders is important, but the US military has been noted superior in many instances because of the emphasis is really independent thinking through the ranks.

Historically that was a punishable offense in many militaries.

At least that was my experiences with the superior leadership I encountered and the reference materials I used in my career.

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Wifey B: And having to wear those uniforms? And get all muddy and dirty? I'm great with allowing girls in the military, just this girl wasn't cut out for it.

I am sure I could have done it. Just never did. As a 16 year old trying to make it on my own, it might have been a good route to go. Just not one I ever considered.

Muddy and dirty?

The least of a serviceperson's worries.....

It usually no TP when you need it....

For the survey I was in the US Army for 27 years. I was an artillery officer and also a fixed wing and helicopter pilot. (The how and why the Army utilized it's commissioned officer pilots back in my day is a long story that I'll skip.)

I was taught to sail in Pensacola Florida by my dad, who as a young man had sailed on commercial gaff rigged schooners. The love never left me and if I happened to be stationed near water I had a sail boat. After retiring from the Army and into my second career I began long distance sailing making several trips to and from Bermuda and down to the Caribbean and back. Now, due to a combination of age and some health issues I am a trawler guy with a Monk 36. I hope I can stay on the water until the bitter end.

By the way for the sake of trivia, the US Army has only about 100 fewer aircraft than the US Air Force, thus being the second largest "air force" in the world. It has the largest flight school in the world as it not only trains all US Army pilots, but also the US Air Force helicopter pilots and the pilots of many foreign nations where it is cheaper to pay the Army to train their pilots rather than operate their own flight school. And up until the mid 1970's it had more boats and ships than the US Navy. It still has a lot of boats and small ships but not near as many as a few decades ago.

psneeld said:

Muddy and dirty?

The least of a serviceperson's worries.....

It usually no TP when you need it....

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Wifey B: That's....um....crappy....euphemism r me. The fact I've never camped out even makes me an unlikely candidate. Well we did spend the night on the beach one time.

psneeld said:

Following orders is important, but the US military has been noted superior in many instances because of the emphasis is really independent thinking through the ranks.

Historically that was a punishable offense in many militaries.

At least that was my experiences with the superior leadership I encountered and the reference materials I used in my career.

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Thank you.

Northern Spy said:

Thank you.

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probably why so many vets come out and do well for themselves.

One problem today though is independent thinking needs to be nurtured.

Mistakes have to be taken in stride and improved upon.

This is no longer tolerable in today's overly scrutinized and politically driven military.

Mistakes are career enders so better to be a woodworker than a standout.

Sailor at 13 ,offshore voyager at 18, US Navy pilot at 22, Airline later, then over to the DARK SIDE.

psneeld said:

probably why so many vets come out and do well for themselves.

One problem today though is independent thinking needs to be nurtured.

Mistakes have to be taken in stride and improved upon.

This is no longer tolerable in today's overly scrutinized and politically driven military.

Mistakes are career enders so better to be a woodworker than a standout.

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True in the business world too. I've heard of people telling one who works for them, "one more mistake and I'll have to fire you." Well, fire them now, because they'll make another mistake sometime. Zero tolerance is impossible to maintain. We sometimes discourage people from taking charge and making decisions. We stifle creativity, free thinking, enginuity. We make mediocre more acceptable. We end up if we do so with all followers and no leaders and with all learning stopped. People try to fly under the radar to avoid being made the target.

I don't know how it is or was in the military. I do know that I was fortunate enough to work in an environment where I was given tremendous latitude, given responsibility, but the freedom and authority to do things. Similarly, I learned to give that to others and allow them to excel. My success as in any endeavor is attributable to those who worked for me. My primary job was to put them in position to succeed. They were all given voices and listened to. Many brains in use are always better than one.

I spent 8 years in the USNR in order to pay back Uncle Sam for my college. Quite a few of my classmates went active duty. In retrospect, I wish I would have as well. The experience instilled values, and a lot of good life lessons were learned. Visiting 3rd world, impoverished countries as a young man on ships made me realize how fortunate we are to live in a country where opportunity is there if you work for it.

But my love of boats started much earlier than that when I was scrubbing fishing boats at the age of 12 in order to go fishing for free.

psneeld said:

Following orders is important, but the US military has been noted superior in many instances because of the emphasis is really independent thinking through the ranks.

Historically that was a punishable offense in many militaries.

At least that was my experiences with the superior leadership I encountered and the reference materials I used in my career.

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Yep, my experience too...

-Chris

Hawg-Why don't you guys elect Trump? He'll make your military great again!

Paul-my Dad was a USMC artillery officer, even though a USNA grad. I spent my first grade year at the USA artillery school at Fort Sill, OK. Even at age 6, it was a hellhole.

As noted in Wifey B's thread, I was USMC, back seat in F4Js (not a pilot, RIO, radar intercept officer.)

Learned to sail while Dad was an instructor as the USNA in the mid-50's.

BandB said:

True in the business world too. I've heard of people telling one who works for them, "one more mistake and I'll have to fire you." Well, fire them now, because they'll make another mistake sometime. Zero tolerance is impossible to maintain. We sometimes discourage people from taking charge and making decisions. We stifle creativity, free thinking, enginuity. We make mediocre more acceptable. We end up if we do so with all followers and no leaders and with all learning stopped. People try to fly under the radar to avoid being made the target.



I don't know how it is or was in the military. I do know that I was fortunate enough to work in an environment where I was given tremendous latitude, given responsibility, but the freedom and authority to do things. Similarly, I learned to give that to others and allow them to excel. My success as in any endeavor is attributable to those who worked for me. My primary job was to put them in position to succeed. They were all given voices and listened to. Many brains in use are always better than one.

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I like your style.

Good leadership is good leadership no matter where.

And it smells and feels like the air after a spring shower. You don't feel like you NEED a shower.

THD - I went to the Field Artillery Advanced Course in 1970. We had a number of Marine artillery officers in the course. All were good guys. Occasionally there were "dust-ups" between the Army and Marines in "Fidler's Green" the wild bar of the officer's club. They always ended up with each buying beer for the other. You are right about Fort Sill being a "Hell Hole".

Paul

psneeld said:

Good leadership is good leadership no matter where.

And it smells and feels like the air after a spring shower. You don't feel like you NEED a shower.

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I'm sure all of us have at some time in our lives encountered people who made us immediately feel like we didn't just need a shower, but needed hosing off and decontamination. I was lucky to always have the option to not deal with those people.

What sickened me was being at the bar at Kirtland Air Force Base officers club ( Albequerque, NM) back in the late 1990s, after work, and my buddy and I were the only 2 military officers in there.

The military had become so politically correct, happy hours were no nos for military officers.

Iit was particularly distressing as it was a beautiful club with a spectacular 2 story view of the desert and distant mountsins.

There were dozens of defense contractors and civilian employees in there, but no military guys anymore.

The fact that 2 Coasties were in there was a novelty in itself, let alone in uniform.

Now believe me...the good Ole days were long gone and the APs/MPs no longer had to be on a short leash....and I think that is just fine...

Showing good order and discipline were no longer allowed, the zero tolerance crowd had won and going there, being dignified, reserved, and sociable was not even tolerated.

Comaradirie, the essence of the brotherhood that keeps warriors looking out for each others backs, had all but evaporated in the old sense.

I don't know how the new kids do it as the comaradirie is essential. But as long as they do keep it....Semper Fi.

On my ship the "A" gang had it pretty sweet, mostly always working in air con spaces. I was in the "hole" ,main propulsion, engine room....no air con! We were the "snipes" or "bilge rats", only one group on the ship had worse conditions and they were the " boiler rats".
An experience that I would not trade for anything.Doing hard work and learning respect for it.
Spent 4 WestPac cruises in very hot and humid environment, Gulf of Tonkin / S.China Sea.

Bill
P.S. Liberty Call............Olongopo City, Phillipines

Charter member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
Haze grey and underway for 16 years on DD,DDR, FF, DLG. CG's.

MMCM USN, Retired

I love reading these accounts of everyone's ship time. Here is 1986 picture from our training ship, TS Golden Bear, a 1940 break bulk, converted to a troop carrier for WWII, and then given to CMA. 120F near the boilers when we were near the equator. The pic was on the turbine deck. Good times.

1977......standing after steering watch on USCG Reliance (210'cutter)...lonely job, as you were by yourself in a closet sized space with 2 sets of blocks and tackle in case of steering failure.

IIRC, the only fresh air was up through that scuttle to the after deck.

Not as hot as a boiler area thankfully!

Enlisted in the AF for about 7 years and got to see a lot of the world and some other very cool stuff working with munitions for fighters and later with a helo rescue unit. While stationed in Guam we did a lot of work with the crew from the Kitty Hawk in the late 90s. Between that and the fact that my wifes family has a lot of Naval academy grads I sometimes felt like I joined the wrong branch, there's so much cool history and tradition in the Navy. But I always loved jets from the first time I saw one and growing up in desert, the Navy just seemed way too unnatural!

USN 1982-1992, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Blue Nose, Golden Dragon, Golden Shellback.

USS Pidgeon, ASR-21
Fleet Combat Training Center Pacific
USS Sacramento, AOE-1

Interior Communications Electrician. Fresh air snipes, if we couldn't fix it it wasn't broke.

I learned everything important in those ten years and it has served me well since.

B & PS-after being raised as the son of a career Marine officer, being one myself, then getting more college degrees than I needed and spending more years than I cared to in the business world-I would offer a comment or two on leadership. Since my background is USMC, I can really only speak to the Corps, but I think the concepts are pretty similar across the services. At least for the USMC officer corps, they teach you leadership first, everything else is secondry to that and comes after or they figure you will learn it. Leadership is what counts. In business, they teach you everything else and leadership not at all. Companies either assume you will learn it or they just don't put any stock in it. I would also add that, for the enlisted Marine, a young man is likely to have substantial leadership positions at quite an early age, up to and including responsibility for the lives of his fellow Marines. Has to be extremely frustrating for those young men returning after 6-10 years in, leaving as E-5 to E-7s and having to put those leadership skills in the closet. Many more employers would benefit by recognizing and using those skills.

I was born into an extended maritime family and did most jobs on boats and ships before the USN. The navy needed ten men to do what I had done with two people as a civilian. Not having real combat since WWII, the navy had many in leadership positions not worth a crap. After an unnecessary shipwreck I went to Vietnam to get away from the fleet. Afterwards I did boats and ships like before, either running, repairing or building big boats-small ships.

First 8 years in submarines, then 16 more in Navy SpecWar (not a SEAL). 35-50' brown water patrol boats. Learned to sail on a Morgan 41 owned by a pilot buddy at age 40 or so. Been hooked on rec boats ever since.

In the submarine service, A-gangers handled everything from HVAC to O2 generators to sanitaries. If it was dirty, greasy, and rotated, it probably belonged to them. Uniformly "get-er-done" guys. Never was on a boat (submarine) where the "ship's animal" (a prestige and continually defended position, not fit for definition in this cultured crowd) wasn't an A-ganger. Smart, hard working, and tough bunch.

Submarines are somewhat unique in that nearly anyone can screw up their job and kill the boat in a heartbeat. Makes for a "tight" crew. Everyone is a volunteer and you can quite anytime (well, after the end of patrol), no questions asked. Still miss that.

Went from draftee to mid-grade officer. In today's zero-defect and PC Navy, doubt if I could stay out of the brig. It was starting to get pretty hard to swallow when I retired after GW I.