Using household plumbing on a boat

PVC is fine, but stay away from cell core pipe. Use pressure fittings vs DWV.

PEX is good for distributing your potable water. They make some nice manifolds to distribute from.

Household toilets won't work well for all the reasons others have stated.

Take some time to think how you can quickly and painlessly winterize all your lines.

Conall

hollywood8118 said:

It was a raritan unit, same as the vacuflush in my current boat. No way I would consider a home unit.. Even a power flush.. They need some pretty decent water psi to work.
Hollywood

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Flushmates and Sloan valves both only require 25psi. The Sloan valve may need a high flow capacity, however.

20yr liveaboard/cruiser all waste plumbing is ABS (the black plastic from Home depot).
Much cheaper than sanitary hose, much easier to install, very easy to control the fall, totally impervious to permeation and leak free for 20 years. I have 6" of hose at the tank and at the toilet.... otherwise pipe.

Cottontop said:

Flushmates and Sloan valves both only require 25psi. The Sloan valve may need a high flow capacity, however.

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No "however" about it, the flushometer (Sloan is a brand name) requires a 1 1/4" supply line feeding the 1" inlet on a water closet compatible model. Dirt toilets need to stay there. If you cannot use an rv gravity style toilet then and only then would I go marine. Here's a source for gravity rv style.

http://m.campingworld.com/category/toilets/1356

boatpoker said:

20yr liveaboard/cruiser all waste plumbing is ABS (the black plastic from Home depot).

Much cheaper than sanitary hose, much easier to install, very easy to control the fall, totally impervious to permeation and leak free for 20 years. I have 6" of hose at the tank and at the toiler.... otherwise pipe.

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And those two 6" pieces of hose will need to be replaced at least 40 years before that ABS pipe.

hollywood8118 said:

On my last boat it had a hybrid system, rv direct dump toilet with 1' of pipe to the holding tank and a standard marine electric macerator head in the forward cabin that pushed effluent back to the tank. The direct rv dump unit was bulletproof, the fwd. unit needed typical macerator maintenance. The holding tank had a 1" vent that kept smell at bay. The rv unit was a fresh water flush. In a perfect world I would have the same unit again in a heartbeat.
Hollywood

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Very similar to my setup.

And after redesigning some of Raritans sanitation products...I am very happy with my hybrid system too.

Cottontop said:

I am glad to hear that marine toilets are not always a disaster. I am sure good design is key.

So why not household toilets?

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Not clear to me what advantages you (and OP?) perceive with the household units.

Somebody mentioned a joker valve; indeed I had to replace one once, took me about 3 minutes. Had to eventually replace the solenoid unit that feeds freshwater into our toilet; took me about 15 minutes. Replaced the discharge pump/motor, took about 15 minutes. All that after the first 10-11 years of service life (except maybe 8-9? years for the joker), brought everything back to as good as new.

Slightly less maintenance time than with the three toilets in our house...

With fewer worries about freshwater consumption, increased holding tank pump-outs...

What good would a household unit bring to the table? (So to speak...)

For OP: I'll chime in on favor of PEX. Our whole freshwater system came that way... Clear with red/blue tracers. Would have preferred opaque red/blue, I think, but that's more for ease of line tracing than anything else. Our fittings are Flair-It; probably would have preferred something like SharkBite, but none of our Flair-It fittings has ever failed over 14-year-so-far lifespan. (He says, lquickly ooking around for some wood to knock on...)

-Chris

Ok, well toilet aside I am going to run with the pex and pvc for now, plumbing starts today. My shrimper buddies drain the toilet into the bilge. Very disgusting and stinks. I would say that would be the other end of the spectrum from a legal marinized unit.

"Wax rings are only good for about 10 years before the toilet starts to leak...a lot less if they dry out from non-use of the toilet for even a few months"

Wax rings are a buck or so, for the past few decades other materials are OTS.

, over $3.50 tho.

Wax rings are a great cheap source of bees wax t , for other marine use.

ranger42c said:

Not clear to me what advantages you (and OP?) perceive with the household units

What good would a household unit bring to the table? (So to speak...)

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Well, for me, I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

More seriously, we all agree with KISS. Which is simpler, a household toilet or a marine toilet? I fully appreciate that on most boats, a household toilet is not the right answer. I am just trying to learn if a household toilet is never the right answer. (OP, you are in a perfect position to answer this!)

And I am glad to hear that some have not had problems with their marine toilets, no doubt those who have read Peggy's book, but there are a lot of toilet problem threads. And nothing will spoil your day like working on the working end of a toilet.

"I am just trying to learn if a household toilet is never the right answer.'

A house toilet is perfect for house boats that have a constant sewer connection as I believe some have on the left coast.

Endless city water , endless dump ,endless electric, whats not to love, for a cottage that never leaves the dock?

Cottontop said:

Well, for me, I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

More seriously, we all agree with KISS. Which is simpler, a household toilet or a marine toilet? I

...but there are a lot of toilet problem threads. And nothing will spoil your day like working on the working end of a toilet.

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With that as starting point.... got it.

My view is that neither is simpler, assuming you include the whole household SYSTEM that Peggie mentions; they're just different.

IOW, if you include freshwater source, freshwater path/routing, waste water destination, wastewater path/routing... as well as the way each toilet design works... the two approaches just get there differently. And one of 'em has a whole municipal treatment plant involved (or maybe an in-ground septic tank).

As to toilet-problem threads... yeah... but if you sort those into piles... and ages... you often find that Bubba is working with a 20-year old manual pump saltwater toilet... and of course old things sometimes need more maintenance than the newest product on the block.

Complicated maybe by installation design issues: Is gravity helping anywhere in Bubba's waste line? Did the installer use good, modern sanitation hose?

Complicated further by the way Bubba (and Bubbette, and guests) use the thing: Did they actually flush enough water to clear waste lines? If the thread is about clogging, did a guest try to flush a whole roll of paper towels? Or if the thread is about odor, has Bubba used any of the appropriate methods and treatments (see Peggie's book).

And even further by Bubba's wallet -- or proclivity to open said wallet from time to time, at least long enough to let a moth escape. Did Bubba maintain the system? Did he use maker's replacement parts? Or chewing gum?

And so forth.

-Chris

Use CPVC, not PVC for fresh water lines. CPVC is stronger and can take hot water.
PVC by code is not allowed within 5 feet of a house, was told this by our city inspector, for pressurized water, so why use it on a boat?
I also like PEX, but CPVC is easier to glue up, and I think it is less costly.

One great advantage is PEX can take being frozen without cracking.

My own boat is plumbed with soft 1/2" copper lines and screw together compression fittings. Copper is naturally anti-bacterial. My boat's fresh water has never gone foul, water is always been good, since 1998 when I bought the boat. So the safest cleanest water system is to use copper lines.

Copper kills almost 100% of all nasty bugs in water within 2 hours..
http://investmentwatchblog.com/copper-kills-99-9-of-bacteria-within-two-hours/

The PVC would only be for drainage from showers, sinks and shitters.

PEX is just cut and press together. It is dead simple which it is why it is now the standard of boat building. No glue joints at all. It can take bends too so there are fewer joints. It is very easy to insert a T or a valve making it very easy to modify the water system. It is available in several colors. Mot boat builders seem to use blue for cold water and red for hot water and white for salt water. But i so not know if there is an official color code standard.

I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

Give her a Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine Elegance ...I'll be glad provide all the help you need to plumb the system without all the mistakes that so many DIY owners make...and she'll love it. The toilet anyway...can't speak for the rest.

Sloan used to be preferred for flush valves, but Zurn now seems to compete. There used be a source named Delaney (or similar) who competed with Sloan, but were not as common. They require a non-varying pressurized supply.

I would not want a water trap only without a valve in a boat.

Moby Nick said:

I would not want a water trap only without a valve in a boat.

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I don't understand this, and it sounds important. Can you help?

I've been sailing a long time, decades longer than cruising in a diesel motor cruiser. If a sailboat is knocked down (horizontal, or nearly so), a distinct possibility in the light-displacement yawl we cruised 18 years, a toilet trap will drain out, one way or the other, and the results may not be pretty. If the water trap-sealed toilet has a hundred gallons of effluent in the tank under it, it will make one heck'uv'a mess in your accomodations.

I bet Peggie isn't familiar with Sloan and Zurn but every guy on this forum is.

The reason is urinals. Guys standing in front of a urinal have nothing better to do than read the top of the flush valve.

Anybody memorized the patent number of the Sloan Royal yet?

Moby Nick said:

I've been sailing a long time, decades longer than cruising in a diesel motor cruiser. If a sailboat is knocked down (horizontal, or nearly so), a distinct possibility in the light-displacement yawl we cruised 18 years, a toilet trap will drain out, one way or the other, and the results may not be pretty. If the water trap-sealed toilet has a hundred gallons of effluent in the tank under it, it will make one heck'uv'a mess in your accomodations.

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Ahhh, thanks. Worth thinking about. Could pumping out, for instance, ever run amuck and force sewage back up through the toilet.

HopCar said:

I bet Peggie isn't familiar with Sloan and Zurn but every guy on this forum is. The reason is urinals. Guys standing in front of a urinal have nothing better to do than read the top of the flush valve. Anybody memorized the patent number of the Sloan Royal yet?

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110, 111 or 125???

Oh Peggie, I should have known better!

HeadMistress said:

I promised the wife a beach house. I may not have mentioned "floating." So my plan is to get her really drunk and smuggle her on the boat. I figure on a stable cat, and with a household toilet, it might be a couple of days before she figures out she's on a boat, and by then she'll be sold.

Give her a Raritan Marine Elegance Raritan Marine Elegance ...I'll be glad provide all the help you need to plumb the system without all the mistakes that so many DIY owners make...and she'll love it. The toilet anyway...can't speak for the rest.

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A Raritan Marine Elegance it will probably be, if I give up on household units.

Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.

Cottontop, the Headhunter toilets I've seen were an older design called a jet head. Jet heads have a very powerful flush using a high pressure jet of water to breakup the stuff. I think the Headhunter also uses a 2" discharge hose as opposed to the common 1-1/2.

It's a design that goes back to a time when boats flushed directly overboard and the amount of water used to flush didn't matter. They can fill a holding tank pretty quick and they are not particularly quiet. They also use a lot of power.

I'm not familiar with the Bravo model so all of the above may not apply.

HopCar said:

Cottontop, the Headhunter toilets I've seen were an older design called a jet head. Jet heads have a very powerful flush using a high pressure jet of water to breakup the stuff. I think the Headhunter also uses a 2" discharge hose as opposed to the common 1-1/2.

It's a design that goes back to a time when boats flushed directly overboard and the amount of water used to flush didn't matter. They can fill a holding tank pretty quick and they are not particularly quiet. They also use a lot of power.

I'm not familiar with the Bravo model so all of the above may not apply.

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I think that's it, thanks.

Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.

Headhunters are great toilets, more suited to megayachts than recreational vessels. The technology is interesting...it uses a centrifugal pump that's remote from the discharge plumbing...bowl contents don't pass through it. Which is how it can flush pocket change, Bic lighters, keys and yes, panty hose too. Which may be just fine in open ocean 100 miles from shore (although environmentalists might argue that it could harm a whale), but hardly what you'd want to deposit in an anchorage...or a holding tank, 'cuz what goes into the tank has to be removed from the tank. I leave it up to you to figure out how.

Parks, the Jet Head was a Raritan toilet...they discontinued it some time in the '90s.

I remember Mel Melenger, Headhunter founder and CEO, bringing the earliest model to the Atlanta boat show and demo'ing how it could flush everything including pantyhose in the late '80s. Lake Lanier had one of the largest--if not THE largest--per capita houseboat populations in the country and he had the idea it would be a great toilet for houseboats...until I told him that Lanier had just become an NDZ.

Hi Peggie, there were actually several small companies that made jet heads back in the sixties. Cooper's Poopers were very popular in South Florida. I think old man Cooper was actually the first to make one. There was another fellow who made them in Ft. Lauderdale and I can't remember his name. He was the store manager of the Hopkins-Carter Ft. Lauderdale store. He bought the store in the fifties and started selling his toilets as well.

HeadMistress said:

Are you familiar with the Headhunter Bravo toilet? Uses some different technology that they don't quite explain, but they have a video of it flushing/macerating panty hose and keys.

Headhunters are great toilets, more suited to megayachts than recreational vessels. The technology is interesting...it uses a centrifugal pump that's remote from the discharge plumbing...bowl contents don't pass through it. Which is how it can flush pocket change, Bic lighters, keys and yes, panty hose too. Which may be just fine in open ocean 100 miles from shore (although environmentalists might argue that it could harm a whale), but hardly what you'd want to deposit in an anchorage...or a holding tank, 'cuz what goes into the tank has to be removed from the tank. I leave it up to you to figure out how.

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FWIW, We have 3 Headhunters onboard a 53' Hatteras and have had 0 problems in over 15 years of use. However, they require a pressurized water system.