Anyone use a ProIsoCharge?

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Well, this is the 5th time since Oct 2105 I have pulled my ProIsoCharge. I have used the remove power trick and it didn't work this time. The yellow low voltage lites just flash and the unit wont let the alternators charge the batts. I have had a spare that lets me swap one out and send the bad
one to ProMariner. This the last time for me. The indications have been different on each failure, different light combinations. I am going to something simple from here. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

The Blue Sea ML-ACR really can't be beat. These are very, very robust latching relays that can drive up to 500A continuous, which makes them great for bow banks.. I have never seen one fail...
 
Here's a link to a Sailing Today comparison of many isolator - combiner technologies.

I rewired my charging system and considered a Blue Sea unit but finally decided on a Sterling CVSR that I purchased from CMS.
My situation was a somewhat unique one and was the reason for deciding against the Blue Sea.
See this link for detail of my system if interested.

Sadly the information in that article appears to be written by someone reading glossy marketing material rather than having a solid grasp of charging systems? Of course most magazines won't devote the space necessary to write an article like that for how it really needs to be written so we get incomplete articles that lack a lot of detail.

A few thoughts, and I do remember selling a CVSR to Ken whom I am assuming is your brother..?

One of your biggest limiting factors aboard Bacchus is your LR-180-03 alternator. Those Deka's really, really, really don't like PSOC cycling and need to see proper absorption voltages, 14.6V ideally for upwards of 5+ hours from 50% DOD. Unfortunately our LR-180-03 is simply not capable of this due to the thermistor protection and voltage fold back gradient built into it (automotive alt).. A conversion to external regulation then dialing it back to about 45-50A would be the best case scenario and actually yield a healthier charge profile.

In situations like yours I will almost always feed the alt directly to the house bank. This allows for proper voltage sensing and optimal charge performance in the shortest time frame, though the house bank would ideally be contiguously wired..

You can't adequately & accurately voltage sense the battery with a 1/2/BOTH switch in the path and there is always performance robbing voltage drop in that path. The closest you can get is the "C" post but if this is closer to the banks then it is better than nothing (sensing at the alt)..

By leading the charge to house you can then use a smaller ACR or even an Echo charger for a start battery, which I did not see on your diagram.

The point in the article about VSR's chattering and combining & un-combining (called relay cycling) is simply the result of an improperly installed VSR. By feeding all charge current to house you prevent relay cycling all together by passing only the current necessary to charge the lightly discharge start battery. It takes very, very little Ah capacity to start an engine.

This is the number one issue I see with VSR relays an improper installation by feeding charge first to a small lightly discharged start bank and then combining with a large deeply discharged house bank. This not only leads to relay cycling, especially with solar and wind, but also forces all alternator current to pass through the relay. By wiring to house first only the low current needed to charge the start battery runs through the VSR.

I will quite often place an ML-ACR with dash switch between house and thruster banks. Some of the thrusters I work on are 400A at 12V.:banghead: Not my idea BTW......

By having the ability to lock the relay into combine/parallel mode you now pick up extra oomph from the house bank plus you have the alternator output to feed the thruster and it is not current limited with the ML-ACR. In your situation you're not gaining much from the alt but any little bit helps.

We have some marinas up this way with serious river or tidal current and even an 8D at 400A does not hold voltage for very long, and yield peak performance, if the owner is heavy on the thruster. The ML-ACR is capable of passing 500A continuously thus does not need the current limiting Charlie built into the CVSR. I have owners with massive high performance alternators and when the ML switch is activated, paralleling the house bank and bow bank, plus picking up the alt boost, the thruster performance is alarmingly improved.

Some of the big engines have pre-heaters that draw significant current (some over 200A) and so in some cases I will leave the alt feeding start and use an ML-ACR that can be manually locked at the dash to prevent relay drop out due to the pre-heater sucking start bank voltage down. In your case it appears you use house for start and hotel loads so feeding the alt direct to house with external regulation would certainly be a charge performance improvement. All this depends on how much time away from the dock you spend. If you weekend jaunt only then the Hitachi as is can suffice. If you cruiser for more than a few days at a time converting it to external regulation would be a good choice. If you cruise heavily then a larger alt would be an even better choice. Some of the 6LP's already have dual v-belts..

The Hitachi LR-180-03 is a bit tedious to convert to external regulation but it can be done. I usually keep a few of them on-hand (already converted) because they are such poor performing factory alts, and many owners don't want to pony up for a beefier alt, but they want the ability to attain a healthy absorption voltage for their expensive batteries.

The CVSR is a neat piece of gear that allows Charlie to use smaller capacity relays, if you have the ability to push more than 2X the current across it. If you are not grossly exceeding the capability of the CVSR then the thermal fuses don't ever really come into play.

Any VSR will drop out when voltage drops below combine threshold (provided time limits are met), as happens with thruster banks, so unless you have an alt capable of more than the relay can pass you won't damage it by pulling lots of current from a thruster bank it will just un-combine on low voltage.

The other point that is critical for bow banks, if you have alternative energy, is the ability to recharge via solar. When charge management is connected to an ignition feed this ability is lost and you will only get back to 100% dock side or when under power for many, many hours. I have this exact issue on my own boat, with my emergency/reserve bank which is charged via a Balmar Duo Charger excited by ignition. In this application it works fine because the self discharge rate is such that this is a non issue in the application..

The good news is there is no right or wrong way just lots to consider. Some products have proven less reliable than others and the Blue Sea relays (Yandina too) for me have proven the most robust and bullet proof. Sterling's are good too but not all models are s reliable as others.
 
CMS, thank for the help and all the information.
 
Of course most magazines won't devote the space necessary to write an article like that for how it really needs to be written so we get incomplete articles that lack a lot of detail.

A few thoughts, and I do remember selling a CVSR to Ken whom I am assuming is your brother..?

One of your biggest limiting factors aboard Bacchus is your LR-180-03 alternator.
A conversion to external regulation then dialing it back to about 45-50A would be the best case scenario and actually yield a healthier charge profile.

In situations like yours I will almost always feed the alt directly to the house bank.

You can't adequately & accurately voltage sense the battery with a 1/2/BOTH switch in the path and there is always performance robbing voltage drop in that path. The closest you can get is the "C" post but if this is closer to the banks then it is better than nothing (sensing at the alt)..

By wiring to house first only the low current needed to charge the start battery runs through the VSR.

All this depends on how much time away from the dock you spend. If you weekend jaunt only then the Hitachi as is can suffice. If you cruiser for more than a few days at a time converting it to external regulation would be a good choice. If you cruise heavily then a larger alt would be an even better choice. Some of the 6LP's already have dual v-belts..

The Hitachi LR-180-03 is a bit tedious to convert to external regulation but it can be done. I usually keep a few of them on-hand (already converted) because they are such poor performing factory alts, and many owners don't want to pony up for a beefier alt, but they want the ability to attain a healthy absorption voltage for their expensive batteries.
.

CMS - Thanks for a very complete & thoughtful response...

Agree w comments re: the Sailing Today Article - it provided a starting point for me when I was learning & looking for alternatives to the diode isolators that Mainship installed

Ken is my brother and if I recall correctly he initially posed some questions to you on a sailing forum - he's the blow boater - I'm the stink potter. He then put me onto your website and when I realized you handled Sterling we started communicating directly and I purchased the Sterling CVSR from you.

I'm less than thrilled w/ how Mainship wired my 34HT but wasn't prepared to tackle a major rewire or alternator upgrade - figured I'd start by eliminating the diode isolators and see how things went... I'm a single Yanmar 6LYA-STP and don't have dedicated start batt'y... MS provided 2- 8D's for a combined start / house bank.

So far that has worked OK for me for the type of cruising we have done.
We tend to return to the dock & have shore charger available most days. When extended cruising normally for a month about once / season we have power available maybe 60% -75% of the time w/ the occasional night or two on the hook or tied up to wall w/o power. I do have a Gen and run it 2x/day to cook & recharge batt'ys.

I normally run w/ the 2 - 8D's combined (Sel SW on ALL) - my thought was to keep the 8D's at the highest SOC by combining vs isolating and running one down lower (don't know if that's smart or not - that was my rationale?)

I thought about upgrading alternator but again decided to remove the diode isolators and see how things went. The Alt is wired via starter +wire to the Sw Common - and charges what ever batt'y(s) are selected as well as the thruster 8-D via the CVSR.

I haven't had a need for a larger alt but would consider a change if the cost was reasonable and the charge profile had the potential to improved my AGM batt'y life significantly.
What is involved w/ swapping the Hitachi alt for an externally regulated one w/ a good regulator? What's a good budget cost Est for parts? (I'm in NY and would do the rewire / install myself)

The Deka Sheet recommends 13.8V - 14.6V Absorption and 13.5V +/- .01 Float
I have selected the Pronautic C3 Profile (2) (AGM1) which lists 14.3 Abs & 13.3 Float -
There is also available a C3 Profile (5) (AGM2) w 14.6 V Abs & 13.7 Float.
I usually run AGM1 so as not to exceed the Deka recommended Float V -My understanding is AGM's don't like higher Float V for extended times.
would the AGM2 setting be better w/ 14.6 Abs? and any downside to the higher Float V of 13.7V vs Deka rec of 13.5V?

Note per you recommendation - I do switch to the higher Abs rate prior to putting the boat up for winter to make sure I get max charge on the batt'ys - I'm there and monitor when it switches to float and may run 2-3 cycles to make sure they are really fully charged before disconnecting but I don't run extended time at the higher float V.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge & experience
 
+1 for Blue Seas ACR. I have 2 x 200 A Leece-Neville alternators, a Balmar 612 then 3 Blue Sea RBS and 2 ACR. Both port and stbd start batteries are Odyssey PC1800's, and the House bank is 6 PC 1800's. One ACR can Auto or manual parallel the start bats. The second ACR then parallel's the House bank to the start bats. System works a treat. I really like the automatic aspect of it.

I have seen 350A charge rate to the batteries, but with temp sensing etc 250-300 A seems more typical. A few hours of running gets a lot of charge into the batteries. If possible I will plan to run in the morning, then when anchored the solar (1820W of panels) tops off the house bank.

Pic 1 shows helm switches, pic 2 shows Blue Seas units themselves. They have the yellow switches on them, for manual control if desired.
 

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OK, most of this has gone over my newbie head, though I do feel I've learned a couple things by reading this thread.
My biggest takeaway is this is motivating me to continue reading till I finally understand all that's going on with the electrical system/s. (I hate not knowing things.)
However, that's not the point right now:
Judging by Insequent's pics, I'm having more faith in the previous owner of our boat and their most recent modifications.
We've got the same helm switches (3 - Start/Engine, Crossover, House) and the same 3 Blue Sea relays in the ER.
 
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+1 for Blue Seas ACR. I have 2 x 200 A Leece-Neville alternators, a Balmar 612 then 3 Blue Sea RBS and 2 ACR. Both port and stbd start batteries are Odyssey PC1800's, and the House bank is 6 PC 1800's. One ACR can Auto or manual parallel the start bats. The second ACR then parallel's the House bank to the start bats. System works a treat. I really like the automatic aspect of it.

I have seen 350A charge rate to the batteries, but with temp sensing etc 250-300 A seems more typical. A few hours of running gets a lot of charge into the batteries. If possible I will plan to run in the morning, then when anchored the solar (1820W of panels) tops off the house bank.

Pic 1 shows helm switches, pic 2 shows Blue Seas units themselves. They have the yellow switches on them, for manual control if desired.

That looks like a nice setup. I have been trying to figure out how I could implement something with the ML-ACR. It appears to me that all I need is two ML-ACRs with manual control to ties three banks to two alternators. I already have isolation switches for the battery banks.
 
Well my Pro Isocharge saga is over. For some reason it continues to fail in my system. It may be some interference from the magnetic pick ups for my tachs that cause the unit to loose it brains. The folks at Promariner have been great supporting their product, but it was time to move on. Anyway both my alternators eventually failed due to bad diodes. Probably cause by some spiking from the combiner relays chatter and various failure modes.I have installed the Bluesea ACRs and I am hoping to get years of good performance out of them. Before and after pictures.
 

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Good move, Dave. Seems like an expensive lesson, but I've only heard good about the BlueSea ACRs.

My boat is set up similarly with a single 160A Yandina combiner for my 2 banks- not as stout as the BS ACR, but reliable, same functions and more affordable for budget boater like me. I have a helm SPST switch that allows me to combine or separate the banks during charging since my start batt doesn't require special long-term charging like my house bank requires.
 
Well so far I have had to "reset" my system twice. No issues after that. Lucas at ProMariner has pictures etc and states they are working on the issue. May be upgrading to ACRs.
 
Interesting read. I have had the ProIsoCharge 130 2-4 unit installed for about 4 years and never had an issue with it. From reading this thread I guess I was a lucky one..:D I just (this past weekend actually) replaced it with a Sterling Alternator-to-Battery charger to gain the multi-stage charging capability I was missing with the ProMariner unit. My alternators are the original 52-Amp Motorola alternators that came as original equipment on my Ford-Lehman 120 engines. I am charging two group 31 starting batteries (start bank) and six 6-volt golf-cart batteries (house bank).

Marty..........................
 
Well so far I have had to "reset" my system twice. No issues after that. Lucas at ProMariner has pictures etc and states they are working on the issue. May be upgrading to ACRs.

I received two brand new in the box units today. No explanation for the previous units failures. The new units have a filter circuit added to connections for the ignition circuit. Promariner has demonstrated consistent support for their product and prompt action when I have returned the product. Now I have to sell them to recover the cost of the ACRs.
 

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I shoulda looked here. Dagnabbit. Just installed a proisocharge 180-3. Hope it doesn't crap out.



The old WM combiner stopped working a ways back. Got tired of having low house batteries.



Initially the Promariner is working great! Hope they have solved the issues mentioned. Or I will update as we move along.
 
I shoulda looked here. Dagnabbit. Just installed a proisocharge 180-3. Hope it doesn't crap out.



The old WM combiner stopped working a ways back. Got tired of having low house batteries.



Initially the Promariner is working great! Hope they have solved the issues mentioned. Or I will update as we move along.
You will be ok, they fixed the issue I had.
 
Mine are working fine after the fix. I do have a "reset" about twice a year. This means disconnecting all the positive leads, wait 20 seconds then installing the positive leads.
 
Nope, have to remove from the battery on my boat. The install instructions did not call for a fuse. I have 4 outputs on my system. Start batteries (2 each) and two house batteries.
 

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