Hendo's Randall 35 Cray Boat complete rebuild, Perth, Western Australia

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Art said:
Good find! BUT - 1124 lbs. lead must have cost a fortune in shipping! :eek: Just kidding... it must have been close enough for pick up - right?

Sooo... when SOLSTICE splashes are you planning to already have the lead fastened to the keel? Or are you just going to have the lead available for interior placement until you get a "feel of the deal" where ballast may be actually needed?

Without being on site at your boat build, I'm not able to really ascertain what my mind's eye would tell me as far as where/what the chances for ballast placements are. Do you have inkling as to where SOLSTICE may need ballast? Ya, Know... she might require less ballast than you think... that I hope for your sake!
Click to expand...


Lol no postage mate. There is a guy that makes doors and panels for hospital X-ray, CT Scan rooms and MRI rooms and these are off cuts. The lead is laminated to a timber product so was going to plane the timber off and save the lead but if I keep it inside the engine room as Tida has suggested then I could epoxy fibreglass them into an encapsulated tablet.

I'm picking them up on Friday so will look then I guess.

Re: ballast. I have no idea mate. She-Kon and I were talking tonight and apparently there is a way to work out where ballast is needed. I have no clue to be honest. Have to suck it and see until she is in the water. I guess the sensible thing to do would be to wait and see if/where they are needed huh.


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Hendo78 said:
Re: ballast. I have no idea mate. She-Kon and I were talking tonight and apparently there is a way to work out where ballast is needed. I have no clue to be honest. Have to suck it and see until she is in the water. I guess the sensible thing to do would be to wait and see if/where they are needed huh.

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Click to expand...

IMHO - Yup! :D
 
I use house paint in quite a few areas or spots on Willy.

Inside cockpit coaming, small amount of cockpit deck, Radar electronics platform and last but most important the salon floors. Exterior water based house paint (top qual Benjamin Moore) for all but the Salon floors. There I use top quality BM floor/patio water based paint. All has been good to satisfactory except the small area in the aft cockpit where it gets walked on a lot. It just gets too dirty looking assumably from the texture of the paint. Actually I'm going to work on that today. Going to replace it w Brightside like the other outside deck surfaces.

In the pic below is the first coat of the BM house paint on the inside of the cockpit. The green. It's now a light buff (tan) and it's a perfect place for house paint.
House paint is heavily engineered to last as long as possible on houses in all weather. You expect 10 years on a house and the only difference on a boat is salt. I don't see the salt environment to be a problem w house paint. Many fishermen in Alaska paint their wood boats w house paint. They leave excessive sanding and scraping to us "yachts".
 

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Nomad Willy said:
I use house paint in quite a few areas or spots on Willy.

Inside cockpit coaming, small amount of cockpit deck, Radar electronics platform and last but most important the salon floors. Exterior water based house paint (top qual Benjamin Moore) for all but the Salon floors. There I use top quality BM floor/patio water based paint. All has been good to satisfactory except the small area in the aft cockpit where it gets walked on a lot. It just gets too dirty looking assumably from the texture of the paint. Actually I'm going to work on that today. Going to replace it w Brightside like the other outside deck surfaces.

In the pic below is the first coat of the BM house paint on the inside of the cockpit. The green. It's now a light buff (tan) and it's a perfect place for house paint.
House paint is heavily engineered to last as long as possible on houses in all weather. You expect 10 years on a house and the only difference on a boat is salt. I don't see the salt environment to be a problem w house paint. Many fishermen in Alaska paint their wood boats w house paint. They leave excessive sanding and scraping to us "yachts".
Click to expand...

Eric - What is cost comparison per gallon regarding top quality BM house paint for decks and marine deck paints... let's say... to Kiwigrip? Do you think the house paint is as long term durable as Kiwigrip? How do you get non skid with house paint... add beads or sprinkle sand, or melt crushed ice or maybe salt?
 
Art,

From my experience KiwiGrip is absolutely worth the added cost. It is foolproof and hard as nails when fully cured and it hides minor imperfections.

I have tried top quality house /deck paints in the past with both ground walnut shells/garnet and good old sand. Problem is wear on the high spots. With the KiwiGrip type products the color is through and wear spots don't show as much.

Just my 2 cents,
Bob
 
Art,
I have no idea what the house paint costs. I got sticker shock the last time I bought Interlux Brightside at over $100 for two quarts. I don't know what Kiwi or any other special deck coats cost either. But I do know I won't need to ever sand off the house paint.

I have a favorite paint store and got the "non-skid" from them. I said I was going to use two coats and was told to put the anti-skid in the first coat and none in the second. Don't know what it's made of. Some of my house paint has been on for several years but I have no long term experience on the boat. Twenty years ago my then neighbor (worked for Parker Paint) gave me some "floor" paint for my back porch. Put one coat on and five years later it looked almost new. And we seldom used the front door. Very soon I'm going to put some "ultra white" floor paint on my cabin roof. Ive had dark green floor paint on the cabin floor for several years and it's holding up nicely. Mostly on the boat I use Brightside. Good user friendly coating. Don't use high tech unless I really think it's better for me and cost effective. But I rarely use oil base enamel. Guess I'm a middle of the roa .. fairway guy. That .... mostly ... applies to anchors as well.
 
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Hendo78 said:
Well that was interesting. Another user added to the Ignore list :)
Click to expand...
Head stuck firmly in sand eh?

Not sure why all the bitterness has arisen in the last few days.
Click to expand...
No bitterness on my part at all.
I'm not the one who has been calling people a dick.

I offered a suggestion, an alternative to what you are doing it
You shitcanned it as a stupid suggestion based on them not being marine paints even though one of them most definitely was.
You then went on to claim you wont use anything non marine on your boat, only the best quality for your boat you said.
Then you went on to say its caravan and house gear for you.
You freely admit to using lesser grades of ply and household framing timber contradicting what you yourself said.

When this contradiction was pointed out in a calm and coherent manner, you and several of your ilk started making unkind remarks, calling me a dick etc all the while claiming it is me who is the bitter one, that I am the one being nasty?

Logic fail right there. :rolleyes:

Anyway, do what you like, I couldn't care in the slightest.
 
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Hendo78 said:
Just to clarify; the only difference between the plywood I used and the "A" grade marine plywood on the market are the face veneers.
Click to expand...
Not entirely correct.
A grade marine has zero flaws in face and interior layers.
The timber used must be to a certain grade and quality

Your ply uses the same glue, but the timber is of lesser grade,the interior layers do have voids and the exterior face has knots and polyester fillers.

I acknowledge that for your project and intended purpose it is suitable for the job but it is a looong way from marine.

What the original poster has failed to realise
Click to expand...

I have not failed to realise anything, I have been in the boatbuilding game for 30 odd years so have seen what you are doing done countless times.
This is a composite construction boat
Click to expand...
Call it what you like but fiberglassing one side of a panel while leaving the other side and ancillary framing exposed is not composite.

Composite is using a material as a core and glassing both sides to get a lightweight structure.
Foam, Balsa, Wester Red Cedar are the most common cores and have little inherent strength in themselves and rely on the outer skin separated by the core to gain strength.
It has effectively created an I beam.

Read more
here. Not the best article but it is generic and doesnt push certain brands. Boatbuilding Basics—Fiberglass, Composites, and Wood - PropTalk

Happy to clear up any concerns.
Click to expand...
No concerns from me.
Like I said 30 odd years in the game so I have seen just about everything in timber and actual composite builds.
I never had any issues with the materials you used

I did have issue with being called a dick and being told my suggestions were sub standard when you yourself are using ............lets just say, "appropriate" but not the best available yourself.

Again, no animosity or bitterness on my part
Have a nice day :flowers:
 
Wow...glad I know the difference between a "long way" between products.

It only comes with lots of experience and knowing what will suffice for the particular use.

I have no horse in the race but for those that think one product is better or more suitable for "some" but not all things should refer to politics.....where nothing ever seems to fall into place clearly.

Though I know that I am perfect....:D.....one thing that has always stuck and modified my behavior was the statement that it doesn't matter what I really am, it is what I am being perceived as.....because the way I was acting or saying something...no matter how factual or true it might be....what matters more is how it is peceived.

Then there is always...there obviously is two sides to the truth.....:eek:
 
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Simi 60 said:
Again, no animosity or bitterness on my part
Have a nice day :flowers:
Click to expand...

Damn glad that's over with! Don't think Matt listening to you any longer. But, maybe I'm wrong??? :ermm:
 
psneeld said:
it doesn't matter what I really am, it is what I am being perceived as.....because the way I was acting or saying something...no matter how factual or true it might be....what matters more is how it is peceived.
:eek:
Click to expand...


'Nobody cares how much I know until they know how much I care' is a similar mantra I've tried (at times unsuccessfully) to live my life by.
 
Simi 60 said:
Not entirely correct.
A grade marine has zero flaws in face and interior layers.
The timber used must be to a certain grade and quality

Your ply uses the same glue, but the timber is of lesser grade,the interior layers do have voids and the exterior face has knots and polyester fillers.

I acknowledge that for your project and intended purpose it is suitable for the job but it is a looong way from marine.



I have not failed to realise anything, I have been in the boatbuilding game for 30 odd years so have seen what you are doing done countless times.

Call it what you like but fiberglassing one side of a panel while leaving the other side and ancillary framing exposed is not composite.

Composite is using a material as a core and glassing both sides to get a lightweight structure.
Foam, Balsa, Wester Red Cedar are the most common cores and have little inherent strength in themselves and rely on the outer skin separated by the core to gain strength.
It has effectively created an I beam.

Read more
here. Not the best article but it is generic and doesnt push certain brands. Boatbuilding Basics—Fiberglass, Composites, and Wood - PropTalk


No concerns from me.
Like I said 30 odd years in the game so I have seen just about everything in timber and actual composite builds.
I never had any issues with the materials you used

I did have issue with being called a dick and being told my suggestions were sub standard when you yourself are using ............lets just say, "appropriate" but not the best available yourself.

Again, no animosity or bitterness on my part
Have a nice day :flowers:
Click to expand...


Perhaps it's time for you to start your own thread and opine on your years of wisdom....the rest of us can continue to enjoy this one.
 
Nomad Willy said:
I use house paint in quite a few areas or spots on Willy.



Inside cockpit coaming, small amount of cockpit deck, Radar electronics platform and last but most important the salon floors. Exterior water based house paint (top qual Benjamin Moore) for all but the Salon floors. There I use top quality BM floor/patio water based paint. All has been good to satisfactory except the small area in the aft cockpit where it gets walked on a lot. It just gets too dirty looking assumably from the texture of the paint. Actually I'm going to work on that today. Going to replace it w Brightside like the other outside deck surfaces.



In the pic below is the first coat of the BM house paint on the inside of the cockpit. The green. It's now a light buff (tan) and it's a perfect place for house paint.

House paint is heavily engineered to last as long as possible on houses in all weather. You expect 10 years on a house and the only difference on a boat is salt. I don't see the salt environment to be a problem w house paint. Many fishermen in Alaska paint their wood boats w house paint. They leave excessive sanding and scraping to us "yachts".
Click to expand...


Hi Eric.
Looking good mate. Glad it's working out for you buddy. Love to see some completed pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
 
Bob Cofer said:
Art,

From my experience KiwiGrip is absolutely worth the added cost. It is foolproof and hard as nails when fully cured and it hides minor imperfections.

I have tried top quality house /deck paints in the past with both ground walnut shells/garnet and good old sand. Problem is wear on the high spots. With the KiwiGrip type products the color is through and wear spots don't show as much.

Just my 2 cents,
Bob
Click to expand...


Another Kiwigrip fan. Looks like I know which one I'm going with. What about you Art..?


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Art said:
Damn glad that's over with! Don't think Matt listening to you any longer. But, maybe I'm wrong??? :ermm:
Click to expand...


Yeah no I'm not. Unfortunately the comments still show when quoted tho :-/


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Hendo78 said:
Roger roger will do mate. Thanks for the heads up.


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Click to expand...

Additionally... as I recall being brought up by you and/or others pages ago, referring to possible ballast needs, launch her in slings if possible so you can gently splash her into water with plenty time to adjust ballast (if needed) before she floats free of the slings.

With my very limited knowledge of SOLSTICE's actual weight parameters/locations and bottom depth/width design it appears to me she should float fairly well on her own. I believe the stern extension you made will add a bunch to her "floatability"! :thumb:
 
Hendo78 said:
Another Kiwigrip fan. Looks like I know which one I'm going with. What about you Art..?


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
Click to expand...

Sounds like Kiwigrip to me too... so far, that is. Jury's out with final verdict due on day of purchase/installation. Way things are going here in my time schedules it looks like this coming winter may be when I get opportunity to really spend spruce-up time (three + weeks in a row) on our Tolly, "The Office". But, then again maybe not till winter after. She's plenty capable of waiting for my planned/desired spruce-up projects, but, yearning to make love to her soon to be 40 yr. old bones, ... Am I Capable of Waiting??? LOL :dance:
 
Art said:
Sounds like Kiwigrip to me too... so far, that is. Jury's out with final verdict due on day of purchase/installation. Way things are going here in my time schedules it looks like this coming winter may be when I get opportunity to really spend spruce-up time (three + weeks in a row) on our Tolly, "The Office". But, then again maybe not till winter after. She's plenty capable of waiting for my planned/desired spruce-up projects, but, yearning to make love to her soon to be 40 yr. old bones, ... Am I Capable of Waiting??? LOL :dance:
Click to expand...


Lol mate I have a 4ltr tin of White Kiwigrip that you can have. I want grey now not white. Mind you its probably cheaper to buy it locally than to pay for postage on a 4ltr tin but the offer is there is you want it.


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What about some help from a paint shop to tint the Kiwigrip you have to the grey you desire, Matt..? I don't think the tinting colour pigment from them would matter not being 'marine grade', whatever that means..? :D
 
Yeah I looked in to it and it can be tinted but I don't want to risk the wrong shade because I am going to need more than 4ltrs


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Hendo78 said:
Lol mate I have a 4ltr tin of White Kiwigrip that you can have. I want grey now not white. Mind you its probably cheaper to buy it locally than to pay for postage on a 4ltr tin but the offer is there is you want it.


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
Click to expand...

TY Brother! But, Like I said - jury is still out on what exact deck covering I will decide to use upon date of actually doing it!
 
Hendo78 said:
Yeah I looked in to it and it can be tinted but I don't want to risk the wrong shade because I am going to need more than 4ltrs


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
Click to expand...

My cut on gray for a deck is that light gra.y always appears darker once down and hotter on your feet.

The Interdeck gray is about 1/2 to 1/3 darker than I wish it was so take a look at their paint chips and see if someone can post good shots of kiwi grip gray as applied.

For me, next time at least the first coat might be a 50/50 mix white and gray. I use the white elsewhere so any further decisions won't make it a wasted purchase.
 
psneeld said:
My cut on gray for a deck is that light gra.y always appears darker once down and hotter on your feet.

The Interdeck gray is about 1/2 to 1/3 darker than I wish it was so take a look at their paint chips and see if someone can post good shots of kiwi grip gray as applied.

For me, next time at least the first coat might be a 50/50 mix white and gray. I use the white elsewhere so any further decisions won't make it a wasted purchase.
Click to expand...

I just bought "ultra white" for my roof top. Now if I can get a white dinghy. Still think'in about using my 15' Aluma Craft canoe as a dink. Think I would switch back to the rubber ducky for winter duty as a 100% lifeboat.
I've had some experience mixing colors and I think white is dominant.
 
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