Hendo's Randall 35 Cray Boat complete rebuild, Perth, Western Australia

Art said:

IMO - due to this link, and from TF member posts... Kiwigrip currently leads the pack!
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Of the ones they tested.

If they had tested emerclad, I am sure the results would have been the same, they are after all, both durable, water-based acrylic polymer.
But one has pictures of boats on the tin so is double the price.

Simi 60 said:

Of the ones they tested.

If they had tested emerclad, I am sure the results would have been the same, they are after all, both durable, water-based acrylic polymer.
But one has pictures of boats on the tin so is double the price.

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Simi - This the Emer-Clad you refer to by using one word such as emerclad?

Emer-Clad Waterproofing Membrane Product | Parchem

Yep

Simi 60 said:

Yep

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You know of link to video for Emer-Clad installation? I can't locate one.

Art said:

You know of link to video for Emer-Clad installation? I can't locate one.

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Have you seen one for kiwigrip?
Same same I would imagine.

Open container and pour in roller tray, load up textured roller and roll it on to deck working it to get the desired texture and pattern

Here you go, whenever you see or hear kiwigrip think emerclad

Simi 60 said:

Have you seen one for kiwigrip?
Same same I would imagine.

Open container and pour in roller tray, load up textured roller and roll it on to deck working it to get the desired texture and pattern

Here you go, whenever you see or hear kiwigrip think emerclad

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I've seen Kiwigrip installation videos. Wonder why no Emer-Clad installation video available??

Simi 60 said:

If I can buy 1 brand of urethane paint with beads for $61/litre and another brand of urethane paint with beads that does the same job for around $15/litre there are no prizes for guessing which one I would buy.

Of course if someone can show me evidence that it is actually 5X better my thoughts may change.

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Doesn't need to be 5 x as good Simi. Not sure where you get your paint from, but at Whitworth's here in Brisbane, a litre of squall blue Interdeck is exactly $3 dearer than the plain squall blue Toplac it is based on. Ie $61.95, compared to $58.95, and although not cheap, (no marine paint is), it goes a long way, and is as others have said, easy peasy to use.

Art said:

I've seen Kiwigrip installation videos. Wonder why no Emer-Clad installation video available??

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There are plenty of things I do in my life that dont have instructional videos on you tube.

Perhaps they figured that if you were qualified to use a paint roller you were qualified to use masking tape, a roller tray and know how to open the container as well.
Its not rocket science.

Peter B said:

Not sure where you get your paint from, but at Whitworth's here in Brisbane, a litre of squall blue Interdeck is exactly $3 dearer than the plain squall blue Toplac it is based on.

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Not Whitworths.
For previous boats I bought paint in 20 litre drums from the wholesaler with names like Jotun and Ameron/PPG on them.

and although not cheap, (no marine paint is),

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Because it has the marine tax added. Small tins and high price and pictures of pretty boats.
Marine paint is pretty much the same as any other paint of the same grade.
My last boat had two pack urethane on it that has been used for painting aircraft, mining equipment, supertankers and oil-rigs all of which lived a harsher life than my boat did.
When I sold it 10 years after its last paint job it looked just fine.
They also sold a paint whith pictures of superyachts on the tin at a far higher price, the rep assured me it was pretty much the same stuff

For timber trawlers a mate of mine who has been in the game for 40 years swears by good quality house paints.

Paints can probably be compared to motorcycle oils.
Some people think you have to buy motorcycle oil with a picture of a motorcycle on the bottle to use in a bike, more expensive the better.
Truth is the majority of far cheaper car and even diesel oils meet and exceed manufacturer spec and cost a hell of a lot less.

Marketing.
Not trying to convince anyone, use what you like and whatever makes you feel better .

Simi 60 said:

For timber trawlers a mate of mine who has been in the game for 40 years swears by good quality house paints.

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I've read that before from experienced mariners on other thread.

Simi 60 said:

........ and cost a hell of a lot less......

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Are you also from Holland??

Got the flu and am crook but managed to Fibreglass two portholes and installed the starboard window.








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Simi 60 said:

Not Whitworths.
For previous boats I bought paint in 20 litre drums from the wholesaler with names like Jotun and Ameron/PPG on them.
My last boat had two pack urethane on it that has been used for painting aircraft, mining equipment, supertankers and oil-rigs all of which lived a harsher life than my boat did.
When I sold it 10 years after its last paint job it looked just fine.
They also sold a paint whith pictures of superyachts on the tin at a far higher price, the rep assured me it was pretty much the same stuff

For timber trawlers a mate of mine who has been in the game for 40 years swears by good quality house paints.

Marketing.
Not trying to convince anyone, use what you like and whatever makes you feel better .

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I'm sure you're absolutely right. Stick the name marine on anything, and Bob'syeruncle, the price trebles. And no doubt this pertains for paints as well, up to a point. The trouble is knowing which is ok to use, and which not, and that's where the certainty which comes from buying a certified marine type of anything, but paint in particular, gives a certain peace of mind, knowing one has used a reputable product, and with an implied warranty. That peace of mind is rather hard to put a value on...

Glad to see the Windows installed. I'm enjoying your voyage

Capecodder said:

Glad to see the Windows installed. I'm enjoying your voyage

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Thanks mate. I'm glad too

Thanks for following and joining in


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Peter B said:

I'm sure you're absolutely right. Stick the name marine on anything, and Bob'syeruncle, the price trebles. And no doubt this pertains for paints as well, up to a point. The trouble is knowing which is ok to use, and which not, and that's where the certainty which comes from buying a certified marine type of anything, but paint in particular, gives a certain peace of mind, knowing one has used a reputable product, and with an implied warranty. That peace of mind is rather hard to put a value on...

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I disagree. Surely you can't say that of all of the marine specific branded paints that they aren't needed and that a house paint would do? So essentially these companies have been around for many many years based on a lie? I don't think so. There are decorative paint coatings and protective paint coatings. There is no place for decorative paint coatings on the external surfaces of a boat. The cost of a product isn't going to determine if I buy a product or not. The product has to be fit for purpose. My windows and doors for example. I could have saved myself $7,000 and fitted a screen door off a house and some house Windows. Essentially they are the same thing being Windows but I guarantee you they'll be rooted in less than a year. Fillers are the same. Sure you can buy a cheap two part filler but stick it in water alongside epoxy filler and see what happens. Granted I have expensive taste and am of the view that if I can buy the best then I will if I can't then I will wait until I can but I'm not the kind to throw money hand over fist either. If I can save money I will but substituting a product with another because it's "essentially the same" is a critical error imho. There is a time and a place for everything. SOLSTICE is having items fitted from caravans(RV's) and housing construction materials and items but where they are fit for purpose. Pull the SDS and TDS of the items you want to compare and study them. I think you'll find the items are far from "identical with different labelling" ....


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Ah, Hendo, I think either you meant to click on 'quote' to Simi, or totally misunderstood my post, because essentially that is exactly what I said as well - what you said. Which is why I said...

"The trouble is knowing which is ok to use, and which not, and that's where the certainty which comes from buying a certified marine type of anything, but paint in particular, gives a certain peace of mind, knowing one has used a reputable product, and with an implied warranty. That peace of mind (in using a marine specified product, in other words - my edit to make clearer), is rather hard to put a value on..."

I guess I was justifying why I am happy to pay $61.95 for Interdeck, instead of buying some similar, and much cheaper house paint, and throwing in some sort of non-skid, as Simi 60 was recommending. Each to his own, I guess.

Ah yeah I was reading the quote that you quoted and replied to the wrong post


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Regarding deck coating item I'd sent PM to Matt about:


1. Expensive - $924.48 per 50 lbs. = approx. 70 sq. ft. 1/8" coverage = $13 + per sq. ft.
2. Pre coat-cleaner needed and top coat sealer recommended... did not find out cost of those two. However, I did speak with company owner John regarding product installation, quality, durability and its great surface-adherence value... always remaining non skid and easy to clean - Comes in white only; i.e. the color I want.
3. Glows amber/yellowish in the dark for added boat showing as well as night time sure-footed travel on decks. Evidently it glows pretty darn bright for about 12 hrs after fairly short charge from sun or even just incandescent lights... therefore might not be good idea to have on front deck for night travel, as the light might interfere with our eyes adjusting to night vision for seeing up ahead. I was told that there is no glow if any light is available; that it only glows in the dead-dark of night. Demarcation line could be established about mid ships wherein same color/texture coating could be continued forward but with no glow feature inherent.
4. So damn tough it's used on airport runways stripes and does not wear out.
5. Fore to now never used as deck coating on pleasure boats.
6. Glow feature is non radioactive.


Super-Krete: http://www.super-krete.com/products/


Glo-Kote: http://www.super-krete.com/s-9350-glo-kote/ See the video.


I plan to purchase small bag and try it out... within the next year, maybe??


Happy Deck-Cote Daze! - Art

Peter B said:

I guess I was justifying why I am happy to pay $61.95 for Interdeck, instead of buying some similar, and much cheaper house paint, and throwing in some sort of non-skid, as Simi 60 was recommending. Each to his own, I guess.

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I never recommended using much cheaper house paint and throwing in non skid beads.

What I said was using
: brand A urethane paint and adding non skid beads
Vs buying
: brand B urethane pain with non skid beads all ready mixed in

Brand A Urethane has pictures of commercial ships, oilrigs etc on tin and is a fraction of the cost of brand B Urethane with pictures of superyachts on the tin.
They are both urethane paints.

The other recommendation was to use
: Brand A durable, water-based acrylic polymer
Vs
: Brand B durable, water-based acrylic polymer
Same as above, one with pictures of yachts on the can is much more expemsive than the other
Both are durable, water-based acrylic polymer used for providing a waterproof textured membrane.

Hendo78 said:

I disagree. Surely you can't say that of all of the marine specific branded paints that they aren't needed and that a house paint would do?

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I never said that at all
But whats the bet the original paint on the topsides of your ex work boat was house paint?

So essentially these companies have been around for many many years based on a lie? I don't think so.

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Many of them are based on clever marketing, peoples emotions and their lack of knowledge of product.

There are decorative paint coatings and protective paint coatings. There is no place for decorative paint coatings on the external surfaces of a boat.

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I never suggested painting a boat in a decorative paint finish either.
I couldn't imagine anything worse than having my topside painted in Liquid Bronze & Bronze Verdigris or similar

The cost of a product isn't going to determine if I buy a product or not. The product has to be fit for purpose My windows and doors for example. I could have saved myself $7,000 and fitted a screen door off a house and some house Windows. Essentially they are the same thing being Windows but I guarantee you they'll be rooted in less than a year.

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While I take your point I have to wonder how house boats get away with using caravan windows and doors for all those decades.
For an ocean going boat you are right though, marine windows have rounded corners to eliminate stresses and use 6061 alloys in the frames and are anodised for durability.
But no one mentioned windows

Fillers are the same. Sure you can buy a cheap two part filler but stick it in water alongside epoxy filler and see what happens.

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And no one mentioned using polyester putty, though I can assure you, production boats made from polyester resins use it all the time.

If I can save money I will but substituting a product with another because it's "essentially the same" is a critical error imho. There is a time and a place for everything. SOLSTICE is having items fitted from caravans(RV's) and housing construction materials and items but where they are fit for purpose.

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Oh so you now admit that there are NON marine products that are suited for a boat.
Interesting

I personally would never use C and D grade ply or cheap pine framing on a boat if it was my choice but each to his own

Pull the SDS and TDS of the items you want to compare and study them. I think you'll find the items are far from "identical with different labelling"

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And what did they say about the house grade C and D grade ply and pine framing you used

Did it specifically mention in the SDS and TDS that it was suitable for use in the marine industry?

wasted energy....

Reiziger said:

wasted energy....

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To cold outside for a swim this morning so might as well set some facts straight over a hot coffee.

Simi

There is no other such as Matt on TF or just about any other forum. He's probably forgotten more about customization on nearly anything than most of us will ever learn - you and me included. Matt is a natch for customizing as well as being a super hard worker.

I say the above because (and although it's not necessary - he takes care of himself very well!) there are those here, me included, who do not feel it correct for anyone, you included, to cast undue dispersions toward or upon Matt... or his works.

Take that as you like, constructive criticism is fine and suggestions are good too... I standby what I said regarding dispersions!

Art said:

Take that as you like, constructive criticism is fine and suggestions are good too... I standby what I said regarding dispersions!

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Dispersion's?
All I am pointing out is that Matt says one thing yet has done something else entirely.

He shitcans my comment about using NON marine product on a boat and claims they are not up to the job yet his boat is full of NON marine product.
Hypocrisy in its most pure form.

He's probably forgotten more about customization on nearly anything than most of us will ever learn - you and me included.

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Quite possibly, but with over 30 years in the marine industry I have my fair share of knowledge as well.

Simi 60 said:

Dispersion's?
All I am pointing out is that Matt says one thing yet has done something else entirely.

He shitcans my comment about using NON marine product on a boat and claims they are not up to the job yet his boat is full of NON marine product.
Hypocrisy in its most pure form.

Quite possibly, but with over 30 years in the marine industry I have my fair share of knowledge as well.

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I am sure you do... but I really like Craig's post 2816. That's the point I tried to get across. Craig is much more eloquent about making the same point - than I am!

Art said:

I am sure you do... but I really like Craig's post 2816. That's the point I tried to get across. Craig is much more eloquent about making the same point - than I am!

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OK, got it, carry on then
A fresh box of happy clapping gloves are behind you

How did giving advice and discussing it get so bitter?
It`s Matt`s boat. If he wants to use a particular product it`s his call. If you think he contradicts himself, let him, he will have his reasons. If he errs he`ll be redoing his error, and from the experience of watching his build, he`ll accept it. None of us are perfect, all the time, or at all. Few things are all white or black, shades of grey are everywhere.