Rookie rode splice, braid unravel

3rd season on the boat. Age of anchor rode unknown, 100' chain, 200' nylon. The first 50' feet of nylon has mild chafe, so I swapped the nylon end for end, which now looks and feels like new line. Went over to youtube and watched a few videos on making an eye splice with thimble. First attempt was ugly, had a few out of sync points, but wrapped many more than the recommended 5-7.

Tested at anchor in 50' of mud overnight, wind 5 to 0kt thought the night. Full 360 swing several times. Next norming the splice looks the same, but the original braid above the splice came apart.

Cut the line back 3' and spliced a second time, tested overnight night at anchor again. Same issue. A 3rd night with the same splice did not untwist any more braid. What is the cause?

Photos are of second attempt. We did not swing a full 360 on the second night.

Forgot to include... added the swivel in photo on the 3rd night, thinking that would stop the unraveling. But, the previous build did not have a swivel and no issues.

Hard to tell from the photo but three-strand unravels like that when its been over-stressed. I suspect its too old or it has been pulled too hard and should be replaced.

I wouldn't bother with a swivel as the line will allow twist and should untwist when you retrieve it. I dont like swivels so take that with a grain of salt.

Looks like you whipped the line at the end of the splice and at the thimble?

If so, resplice the line and fore go the whipping at the end of the splice.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Looks like you whipped the line at the end of the splice and at the thimble?

If so, resplice the line and fore go the whipping at the end of the splice.

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Good call, I think. Looks like the whipping would have eliminated much of the shock absorbing qualities of the splice, and focused most of the energy on the small section of rope just above it.

I would install a new splice , then tension the end by securing it to say a dock piling and using the windlass to set the splice.

Then I would whip or parcel it.

While making all those tucks in the splice are you rolling the line continuously in one direction or rolling it only for the three tucks and then back to the original position ? You should roll for three tucks and then unroll the line back to its original lay and start your next three tucks. "Setting" the splice as mentioned is also necessary. I would not use over 5 complete three part tucks.

I think Ulysses is on to something. The only time I've seen line twist out that way is if it reverse twisted and then pulled hard. All rope has a certain "lay" formed into it and you need to maintain that.

On another note, there is no reason to use all that hardware in your splice and plenty of reason not to. I suggest going to the Samson or NE Ropes sites and following their instructions for a direct 3 strand to chain splice.

Ken

As always, on anything boat or Yacht, I stand with FF. Put a strain on it do your deed then let it go back to original....at least for nylon.

THe issue with your lines are called 'Hockles'.

I would suspect the line (prior to being end for ended) had a BUNCH of (looking for the PC word here,) but tightly knotted, twists which bunch up in the rode) The 'sailors word' is an anatomical description of the sphincter!

A line that is twisted (or handled improperly during use) develops either these aforementioned bunches or the opposite (hockles) which are shown in your photo.

The trick is when using line it to get the 'other wound up things' worked out of a line.

When you use a line which is full of the anatomical twists, you have to 'unwind it' to release the twists. But if you unwind it too much you cause hockles.

When you turn a line around which is full of the first, and give it a good strain it wants to 'untwist' thus the issue of the hockles in your line.


Take the entire rode out on a grass lawn, stretch it out pull. I can almost guarantee you will find the line trying to unwind. It will take a half hour or so, but if you flip all the kink out of the line you should be able to save the rode. I have done this by dragging a line in the water. You can actually see the line twisting its way as it is pulled along.

You will find that flipping it one way will make it unwind. and flipping it the other way will make it tighter.

I would suspect the end you just spliced will need to be wound tighter.

Most people just wind up using this as a 'lunch rode' instead of trying to work the kinks out.

Out of curiosity, when you were using the rode, did you notice a lot of kinks in the rode as you used it?

When splicing, did you finish the splice by standing on the splice and rolling it under your foot? That should force the strands to get friendly with their neighbours and limit the tendency to open up.

You have 200' to keep practicing with. Splicing is therapeutic, learn to enjoy it. Get rid of the swivel, it causes the hockles as the line stretches and relaxes.

Another suggestion is to pay a pro to splice it and be done with it. $15 or so well spent. You will sleep in peace.

"Another suggestion is to pay a pro to splice it and be done with it. $15 or so well spent. You will sleep in peace."

Or at least purchase a good fid so you can splice quickly and with out harm to the tucked ends.

Masking tape is a big help too.

The advantage of using a knot is that its dead easy to cut off the damaged end of the anchor rope, and it only takes a couple of seconds to re-tie it without the hassle of re-doing a splice.



http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8JbBZljjbMQOdVQp_d1lvBEc4e_PQSwWFL4mvZwZA-J8vhfd6

Rustybarge said:

The advantage of using a knot is that its dead easy to cut off the damaged end of the anchor rope, and it only takes a couple of seconds to re-tie it without the hassle of re-doing a splice.



http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8JbBZljjbMQOdVQp_d1lvBEc4e_PQSwWFL4mvZwZA-J8vhfd6

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The disadvantages of a knot are, no chaff protection and:

http://www.neropes.com/Resources/sail_reprint.pdf

Capt.Bill11 said:

The disadvantages of a knot are, no chaff protection and:

http://www.neropes.com/Resources/sail_reprint.pdf

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Wow! A knot reduces the strength of a rope by 50%...

I was suprised to see how useless the 'round and two half hitches 'was; I often use it to Tie up with. Shocked by the loss of strength with the bowline, I always thought it was a bullet proof knot .

Thanks for all the replies... currently playing on relative's boats in Maine. When I get back on the Pacific side I will attempt again. I want to learn this and make it right.

When the line was end for end the "new" side was very soft, like new from the factory. I did not put load on it before the splice. The splice was the same three and twist back, did not continue the rotation for each new set of tucks.

Added whipping on second splice attempt to troubleshoot, I will remove it. Same for swivel.

I did not stand on the splice or put pressure on it before anchoring. I just threw the anchor over the side with a retrieval line and float attached, just in case.

Borrowed a fid from a friend, but I'm going to buy one as I need to make new lines for my flopper stoppers.

Rustybarge said:

Wow! A knot reduces the strength of a rope by 50%...

I was suprised to see how useless the 'round and two half hitches 'was; I often use it to Tie up with. Shocked by the loss of strength with the bowline, I always thought it was a bullet proof knot .

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The bowline is pretty much a bullet proof knot when tied correctly. However, that just means it will not tend to come loose. I haven't looked at the reference linked above (slow download for some reason) but iirc it will reduce line strength by about 60%?

I agree with all of the above suggestions (other than pay someone else to do it). Don't whip the end of the splice (although you can stitch it if you are really salty), roll it when done, make sure that the line is laying nicely before you start (ie no twists), and then tension it when you are finished.

"Wow! A knot reduces the strength of a rope by 50%.."

SO WHAT?

the usual anchor or dock line 5/8 or 3/4 takes 12,000+ to 18,000lbs to break.

Not many dock OR boat cleats will take 6,000lbs of load..

Chafe can easily reduce the strength of a line so a new knot with a metal thimbol wire tied in may be stronger in use than a fancy splice.

FF said:

Chafe can easily reduce the strength of a line so a new knot with a metal thimbol wire tied in may be stronger in use than a fancy splice.

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I'm not sure how a 50% reduction in strength becomes stronger than a 0% reduction by the simple addition of thimble.

I guess it must be a case of YMMV (Your Math Must Vary).

"'m not sure how a 50% reduction in strength becomes stronger than a 0% reduction by the simple addition of thimble."

The point is many lines even at 50% have a higher breaking strength than either the boat or the dock.

FF said:

The point is many lines even at 50% have a higher breaking strength than either the boat or the dock.

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Which is why many are surprised by how much a knot reduces the breaking strength, they have never experienced a failure. Even so, I think it is always good for people who hang around ropes and lines to understand the effect a knot has on the breaking strength.

looks to me like the line was unlayed far past the splice then re layed improperly. It is not recommended to unlay line beyond the splice point.