Reluctance to purchase steel

You veteran TFers have the uncanny ability to see things that others don't. I'm intrigued by this steel boat, I don't know why she reminds me of s gypsy wagon, but does. Your thoughts?

http://www.curtisstokes.net/pdf/north-shore34vinette-trawler-periploi.pdf

Gmarr said:

You veteran TFers have the uncanny ability to see things that others don't. I'm intrigued by this steel boat, I don't know why she reminds me of s gypsy wagon, but does. Your thoughts?

http://www.curtisstokes.net/pdf/north-shore34vinette-trawler-periploi.pdf

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My first question would be is how old are the photos in the ad? If they are more than a few years old I would request a new set of photos from the listing broker before I would invest any more time investigating this vessel. If you do decide to move forward I recommend that you have the hull x-rayed to determine if there are any thin spots.

Gmarr said:

You veteran TFers have the uncanny ability to see things that others don't. I'm intrigued by this steel boat, I don't know why she reminds me of s gypsy wagon, but does. Your thoughts?

http://www.curtisstokes.net/pdf/north-shore34vinette-trawler-periploi.pdf

Click to expand...

What is represented in the ad seems like really a lot of boat for that money and well worth being intrigued about. I really like it. If I was as close as you are I would be in the truck in the morning for sure to check it out. Very thorough visual and audio gauge on the hull would be in order and the shape of the hull aft, while hard to see for sure in the shadows in the pictures, seems a bit flatter than I would expect. I would want a good long sea trial with a fresh breeze to see how it acts as several angles. Definitely worth a look in my mind.

I'd love to find an aluminum or steel hull trawler! Tough as nails and can last much longer than fiberglass hulls.

A rusting steel hull has easier detection and correction than a plastic hull containing rotting wood cores. Steel requires continual maintenance, but can result in fewer serious "uh ohs."

Steel, steel, steel. This guy must has been happy with steel.

Considering it's floating on its lines I'd say he is too

Fresh water steel boat hulls can last a long time in the Great Lakes. We have two work boats that are close to 80 years old and they don't get much love.

$1,750,000 here
Used 2004 Don Brooke 20m Expedition Motor Yacht Power Boat QLD 4178 - Yacht & Boat

Now $500,000
Don Brooke Pilothouse 20m Expedition Motor Yacht: Power Boats | Boats Online for Sale | Steel 13mm | Queensland (Qld) | Boats Online

I dont go for steel myself but that is some impressive chunk of it.
13mm plate and look at the size of that main cabin

"I'd love to find an aluminum or steel hull trawler! Tough as nails and can last much longer than fiberglass hulls."

Early sail hulls like the Bounty are 60-70 years young and will still pass a survey.

The QUALITY of construction is key to any boat longevity.

Be sure to look under Windows or hatches. My brothers steel sailboat has two holes the size of cars cut into the sides replacing rot. It was all because there were water traps. Water never made it to the bilge.

Of the steel hulled vessels I've seen advertised in that size range, that is surely one of the most finished and pleasing designs yet. Of course, you can't see everything in photos, but I'd sure think it's worth a visit.

FF said:

"
The QUALITY of construction is key to any boat longevity.

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And the quality of maintenance and upkeep.

Steel is easy to cut out and rebuild if you are talking on a small scale. I replaced this area because it cracked when it froze. This area is nearly impossible to get to I cleaned it out and I epoxy the far side and rewelded a new piece back in. That is about 35 years of crap!

"The QUALITY of construction is key to any boat longevity."

" And the quality of maintenance and upkeep."

Not really for a 100% GRP hull and deck.

Leaks wont dissolve the hull and deck as it could in steel, wood or Chinese Composite (a thin layer of glass on house plywood).

Crap maint , not putting the engine to bed for a few winters , or not draining thev plumbing will be a big hurt , but are easy to spot and cure.

Hull damage usually takes skilled labor , to find and to repair big time or $$$$..

FF said:

"The QUALITY of construction is key to any boat longevity."

" And the quality of maintenance and upkeep."

Not really for a 100% GRP hull and deck.

.

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I just want to be sure I'm not misinterpreting your response. Are you arguing that maintenance and upkeep are not important to a GRP hull and deck?

BandB said:

I just want to be sure I'm not misinterpreting your response. Are you arguing that maintenance and upkeep are not important to a GRP hull and deck?

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I think what FF was saying, and he has made this point before so I have thought it out more than once.....is that well made boats up front suffer less from lack of maintenance than lesser ones for awhile.

I agree.

But eventually maintenance is the great equalizer.

psneeld said:

I think what FF was saying, and he has made this point before so I have thought it out more than once.....is that well made boats up front suffer less from lack of maintenance than lesser ones for awhile.

I agree.

But eventually maintenance is the great equalizer.

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I don't think anyone would argue that being well made is important. There are two elements. 1. Construction quality and 2. maintenance and upkeep.

I think all he is saying is better build up front means the boat can tolerate less maintenance for longer....not "no maintenance" forever....

psneeld said:

I think all he is saying is better build up front means the boat can tolerate less maintenance for longer....not "no maintenance" forever....

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No argument there. Poor maintenance has destroyed some incredibly well built boats though. There are some Feadship's that have needed major rebuilds of hulls. Not many, but a few.

"Are you arguing that maintenance and upkeep are not important to a GRP hull and deck?"

Pretty much.Mostly cosmetics is affected.

A solid GRP hull left open to the elements does not suffer harm from rain or snow over the years.

Physically GRP does will last a long long time with out structural damage.

There are Boston Whalers from the 60's that have been outside, uncovered for 50+ years.The wood may be dust , but the hull is still sound.

A larger boat will have huge , mostly cosmetic problems , inside the interior may be shot , and the machinery and systems may be ruined , but the hull will still be sound .

The hulls of wooden , steel or glass over ply will probably be long gone with no maint abuse, but the solid GRP does survive , as do the more expensive cored hulls .

This makes the selection of a fixer upper far easier , paint is lots simpler than re laminating a deck.

Using a Boston Whaler as an example is convenient but not representative. A "solid hull GRP" has bulkheads, has decks, has equipment attachments, has fittings, and every one of those is an opportunity of potential ingress of water. It's not just a hull. It is also exposed to conditions and may have damage from being in or being filled with ice. If you were talking just a solid piece of fiberglass or just an empty hull with no boat, then and only then do I buy your statement. I believe maintenance and upkeep play a role as well as initial build quality since in the real world we can't speak of a hull in a vacuum.

I think it's fair just to say I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me and leave it at that.

Could not agree more that hull and structure maintenance is important. But FF's point is well taken that good bones enter into the equation. A well constructed FRP vessel that is well maintained has a demonstrated shelf life of 50 years and counting and still looks very good - without a ground up redo.

Carl's Delfin is a good example of a steel hulled vessel that is near perfect. But then I have been aboard some early 70's FRP 60 footers that are equally pristine. So lots to ponder here.

another possibly good example from what I have read and seen....


wooden window construction techniques on Grand Banks versus the Taiwan gang.


maybe it was better maintenance buy higher priced boat owners...but I think the GB window design and construction was superior and led to a lot less interior damage.

Interesting you bring this up PS, because one of the several reasons I have not looked seriously at say year 2000 or so GBs are the poor window designs on my favorite models. You are right, they are pretty good, but not always good enough IMHO. I serve up DeFevers, Selenes, Flemings (yes, Tony knew of the issues) or Nordhavns as examples of very good leak proof windows.