Other: offer - but no answer

Art; said:

Is he broke and simply does not have capital available?? I hope not for your sake!

Click to expand...

The cheque went into a legitimate Trust Account. He would not risk the consequences of messing with that. If he was unreachable and his office locked up, I would worry.

I still say he is just playing games with the full 48 hours thing so in his mind tomorrow is payday.

If I had to take a day off, I would and just go park my arse in his office tomorrow.

UTOAZ89, As Of Noon Today AMG has Gypsy Star listed as sale pending...... It appears that they still have you on the hook for this boat.

I would be suspect of all brokers. It's a flawed system. The more your spend on your boat the more they make that's the one representing you and one that represents the seller. There are going to be a few people on here that pop up saying there is one or two that that is not going to be the case and that is bullshit. I didn't say dishonest or shady. The system is geared in both party's for buyer to assume monies and risk. Which means buyer beware. There is not one used car salesman out there....oops I meant boat broker that will put your financial gain above his own. They are all going to be your best friend and your children are the cutest. That's how our country works Capitalist. Not perfect but it is the best out there. That means you are responsible for you a your decisions and your money. Resources like this forum are a tool for study you can't put a value own. Everyone will tell you "That's just he or hers opinion", true. However as the same opinion keeps surfacing trend or truths start to be apparent. that's a consensus and that will guide you there. There are lots of people out there and on this site who have paid a great deal of money for there education use it. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm preaching but the short of story is never depend on the kindness or honesty of others especially the ones that claim most of my customers have become my best friends......You want a competent Partner not another social victory. Sorry for the long windedness and or preaching......"been there done that......I feel ya pain!

mramoo said:

UTOAZ89, As Of Noon Today AMG has Gypsy Star listed as sale pending...... It appears that they still have you on the hook for this boat.

Click to expand...

No big deal. Just another delay and another potential strike against the friendly broker.

Possible scenarios:
Could be another buyer and that's why the previous run around.
If there is a cooked up "counter" 89 walks.
If they have accepted his off he has some interesting choices.

"...Poets pen fancy words about why men love boats, but Marvin keeps it simple. When he gets up in the morning, he’s still excited about going to work. Please stop by Advance Marine Group and rekindle your friendship…"

Words fail me.

BandB; said:

Unfortunately, there are, to my knowledge, still only two states requiring yacht brokers to be licensed.

Click to expand...

I just did some digging and WA has Vessel Dealers Licenses which is basically a business license. No governing body other than a yachting association discipline committee. The wild, wild west.

dhmeissner said:

"...Poets pen fancy words about why men love boats, but Marvin keeps it simple. When he gets up in the morning, he’s still excited about going to work. Please stop by Advance Marine Group and rekindle your friendship…"Words fail me.

Click to expand...

Good catch Dave.
The guy just might be digging a deeper hole here.

Hawgwash said:

The cheque went into a legitimate Trust Account. He would not risk the consequences of messing with that. If he was unreachable and his office locked up, I would worry.

I still say he is just playing games with the full 48 hours thing so in his mind tomorrow is payday.

If I had to take a day off, I would and just go park my arse in his office tomorrow.

Click to expand...

He might have to deal with a trustee if it's in a trust account and he isn't the trustee.

Hawgwash said:

I just did some digging and WA has Vessel Dealers Licenses which is basically a business license. No governing body other than a yachting association discipline committee. The wild, wild west.

Click to expand...

Only Florida and California

"Process" = messing you around as long as possible. Sad.
AMG = OMG!

When we finished our ' back and forth ' at his office this morning, the broker told me, I would get my money back possibly by Friday. Although, I asked him to write me a check, since I was asking for it and I was there; he said he could not. It had to be done by the administrator, and she was not working everyday. I am not sure what do believe anymore.

BandB said:

He might have to deal with a trustee if it's in a trust account and he isn't the trustee.

Click to expand...

It is deposited to "Advanced Marine Group Trust Account #----". As owner of AGM and the licensee, if he doesn't have signing authority then that's another reason to question his cred.

I love this stuff and while I know it's poor Mr. 89's money and he is sweating bullets, I still think it will resolve.

I just find the "Sale Pending" really curious.
If there indeed was a pending sale at noonish, that was about the time our man met the broker who acknowledged the withdrawn offer. Effing weird man, just effing weird.

utazo89 said:

When we finished our ' back and forth ' at his office this morning, the broker told me, I would get my money back possibly by Friday. Although, I asked him to write me a check, since I was asking for it and I was there; he said he could not. It had to be done by the administrator, and she was not working everyday. I am not sure what do believe anymore.

Click to expand...

Add that to your notes.
Was the lovely Katie McGinnity in the office? I imagine she holds the magic pen.

At the time, when I received the signed printout from him, a client walked in, so I was ready to leave, not to interfere with the business. This is when the broker told me again that he will get my money back.

No, there was nobody else, only him. Since we started, I talked only to him.

I believe you've been far to patient. 9K is a lot of money. I'm not experienced in dealing with brokers and perhaps 89 experience is acceptable in the industry, but not to me. I would have contacted a lawyer by now to show the broker my interest in getting my money back. This is not usual behavior in the USA. Yes contacting a lawyer will make things more complicated but I would be concerned this guy is trying to steal your money.

In my experience the broker did not cash my deposit until my offer was accepted. 10% is a lot of money for a deposit. Perhaps that is required but my offered would be accompanied by a $1000 check. The seller can reject it but not likely.

Well, I don't think any of the 2964 view this has gotten is going to help business for these people! In this day and age of social media, you better be careful how you treat customers if you expect to be successful.

pearlwindham said:

I would be suspect of all brokers. It's a flawed system. The more your spend on your boat the more they make that's the one representing you and one that represents the seller.

Click to expand...

I am not so sure the system is flawed so much as folks understanding of it. A buyers broker doesn't really represent the buyer. Even the buyers broker is working for the seller and is paid by the seller.

I am not as cynical as you, but maybe I am younger and less experienced? I have dealt with plenty of very honest and ethical people and generally will assume that anyone I interact will be as well until they prove otherwise.

dhays said:

I am not so sure the system is flawed so much as folks understanding of it. A buyers broker doesn't really represent the buyer. Even the buyers broker is working for the seller and is paid by the seller.

I am not as cynical as you, but maybe I am younger and less experienced? I have dealt with plenty of very honest and ethical people and generally will assume that anyone I interact will be as well until they prove otherwise.

Click to expand...

Many recall the ageless song... "You take the high road n' I'll take the low road... and, I'll get to Scotland before you!"

I think any road 89 travels at this point is OK. The main target is for him to get his DP BACK - In Full!

This broker is being wholly improper. Period!

I agree Al. I didn't mean to imply anything regarding 89s situation. I think the broker has demonstrated to 89 pretty clearly that at the very least he is difficult to do business with.

The part that bothers me most is the lack of honest communication. He didn't return calls. He never offered an explanation of what was going on. You speak to the buyer and update him every day.

Then on returning the deposit. Had he simply said, Ms. Xxxxx is the trustee and she has to write and sign the check. She's in the office on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday so it will be two days. In today's world there is nothing preventing it immediate. She could send it Fedex. Anything. You get no information, then get a little more and perhaps a little more.

For the record, Advance Marine Group is the fictitious name of Double Red Dragon Yacht Management LLC. Here is it's corporate page with the agent and manager listed and an address for them. Marvin is that person.

Neilson Yacht Brokerage at the same address.
1 employee, guess who.


AMG and Little Red Wagon are separate addresses though.

Hawgwash said:

Neilson Yacht Brokerage at the same address.
1 employee, guess who.


AMG and Little Red Wagon are separate addresses though.

Click to expand...

Nielson Yacht Brokerage was a fictitious name under Nielson but their account was closed in 2007, from what I can find.

BandB said:

The part that bothers me most is the lack of honest communication. He didn't return calls. He never offered an explanation of what was going on. You speak to the buyer and update him every day.

Click to expand...

Game. Set. Match.

This simple statement embodies the entire ethical dilemma in this entire thread- lack of communication on the part of the broker.

Trawlerforum members,



I have put him on my 'never, ever do business with him' list.

Pau Hana said:

Game. Set. Match.

This simple statement embodies the entire ethical dilemma in this entire thread- lack of communication on the part of the broker.

Click to expand...

Sadly, Mr. Brokerman can play this out as long as he likes and there is nothing short of litigation to resolve it.

Oh sure, there is a "professional" body that has a disciplinary committee but really, what can they do? A fine, suspension, removal? Not without a lot of wasted investigation. Broker boy has a completely different take on this thing, insists he is the good guy and the carousel starts it's run.

Brokers association after months kicks the guy to the curb, he can still sell boats, still deal in trusts, still play an un-provable ponzi if that's what he does. Meanwhile the utazos get played and can't move on.

You also have to wonder what kind of horse nuggets this rube is feeding his seller as well.

Hopefully the money will be there by Friday.

Larry H said:

Trawlerforum members,


Send him an email letting him know what you think of him and his operation. He may not be aware of the power of social media, or may not care, but a pile of email might open his eyes.

I have put him on my 'never, ever do business with him' list.

Click to expand...

Please wait until 89 gets his deposit bank.

Larry H said:

Trawlerforum members,

Send him an email letting him know what you think of him and his operation. He may not be aware of the power of social media, or may not care, but a pile of email might open his eyes.

I have put him on my 'never, ever do business with him' list.

Click to expand...

Naw, I wouldn't start that. We have a victim here who is currently out 9 grand. Start poking a stick in the hornets nest and broker boy says "screw it, sue me." Let it play out a bit. Things are going on in the background.

Pau Hana said:

Game. Set. Match.

This simple statement embodies the entire ethical dilemma in this entire thread- lack of communication on the part of the broker.

Click to expand...

Sorry Peter... but, respectfully to you, I just gotta say:

Lack of communication my assss. 89 communicated profusely and repeatedly to the broker by email, phone, and personal visits in attempt to be given back his deposit. This broker is not suffering from lack of communication... he is suffering from some sort of financial (maybe contract) skullduggery; being continuously perpetrated and manipulated for some currently unknown reason. If he is an associate of yours, maybe you can speak with him to help figure out his incorrect actions.

The broker is lucky that 89 still holds a calm attitude. If it were me being taken advantage of in this way... well let's just say... this broker would not be a happy person - at all. And, I'd enjoy making him very unhappy; which makes me a somewhat dangerous adversary when taken advantage of, in a manner such as this.

I wish the best for 89 and hope to soon hear good news regarding full refund.

Hawgwash said:

Naw, I wouldn't start that. We have a victim here who is currently out 9 grand. Start poking a stick in the hornets nest and broker boy says "screw it, sue me." Let it play out a bit. Things are going on in the background.

Click to expand...

Very Much Agreed!

Fine to chat here, helping 89 get through this by placing suggestions... not correct (yet) for vigilante social contact into an arena to which we have no place or rights to join.