Teak handrails?

A couple of the boats we are looking at have teak handrails that has been varnished. One is in good shape and another the varnish is almost completely gone.
My question is about Cetol or similar products. Are there any advantages to using this instead of varnish each year?

Cetol is easier to maintain than straight varnish.

That said, it certainly doesn't look as good.

As I understand Cetol it won't have the shiny finish of varnish, correct?
How difficult would it be to go back to varnish if it has cetol?

I've never used Cetol. We maintain our handrails with Epifanes high gloss.

Look into Bristol, we used it and are happy

folivier said:

As I understand Cetol it won't have the shiny finish of varnish, correct?
How difficult would it be to go back to varnish if it has cetol?

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Being both old and lazy I have used Cetol for several years. It is as shiny as varnish but has more pigment so has sort of a muddy look rather that the deep shine of varnish. In southern California it can last a year or two with no maintenance. A yearly light sanding and one coat of clear keeps it looking new. From a few feet away it is hard to tell from varnish so I feel it is a good tradeoff.

Paul

Greetings,
Mr. fo. "Regular" Cetol (Marine, I think) does not have a very high lustre BUT Cetol does make a clear high gloss product which we've used and are satisfied both with it's shine and longevity. We applied two coats of Marine and 3 coats of clear gloss. Nope, not "bristol" 10 layers deep but given the ease of application, just as good.

Looks to be some good research Exterior Wood Finish Test Two-year Update - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

folivier said:

As I understand Cetol it won't have the shiny finish of varnish, correct?
How difficult would it be to go back to varnish if it has cetol?

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If the varnish is that far gone strip & sand it bare then use 3 coats of Cetol natural teak to get your color and then 2-3 coats of Pittit captains or Epifanes clear gloss varnish to get a much higher gloss.

Epifanes is great because you do not sand between coats. One very good product that few people have tried is Letonkinois. It has stood up bery well in the southern Chesapeake. American Rope & Tar LLC :: Le Tonkinois - Original

I hate sanding and varnishing teak. I think the gray, weathered look of teak looks fantastic on any boat that I have to maintain.

You might just consider teak oil. Strip and sand off the varnish that is there, then use a teak oil. It is easy to apply, and usually can be done once or twice a year depending on your climate.

I would much rather be out on my boat enjoying it, than stuck at the dock sanding and varnishing. Maybe if I was retired, didn't have a bad back and a bum knee.... nah, still wouldn't do it.

If you leave teak without any finish the softer material erodes and you get ugly ridging. It pays to use something.
I use Cetol Gloss for some teak, and Deks Olje 1 & 2 for other teak. The latter is easily maintained after initial saturation, lacks the deep gloss of alternatives,but you almost never have to go back to bare wood.

seriously why do you want put anything on you teak ?

previously on OA we had varnish on cap rail on now on the Terranova we have bare teak...
I love outside varnish but on boat's friends ...

on you teak deck to you put any product ?

Hugues

Teak when left natural will look great for years. If the grain is raised, it is due to teak "cleaners" and or power washing or scrubbing the teak. If it is just left unfinished and not "cleaned" it will last for years and will not raise the grain.

Epifanes is a hard low oil varnish and not ideal IMO for cap rails. I prefer McCloskey's Spar Varnish because it' a high oil product that has a maximum amount of flexability. This helps the varnish film remain intact while the wood expands and contracts. The joints and screw heads are vulnerable to water ingression when the coating film fails.

But the high oil varnish scuffs easily from shoe contact while boarding. I'm using Epifanes on my kitchen table but keep using McClosley's on my cap rail.

Now Eric, he was asking about hand rails not cap rails or more properly rail caps! Teee heeee!!

Bristol and Cetol are my favorites in different applications.

Most failed clear coat systems fail to heat and UV, and improper applications to the substrates.

Here is a digital deck temp of 169 F a couple of days ago. Air temp was 90.

Don't combine "apply in sun is ok" with "apply in 100 F heat is ok".

All coatings fail if improperly applied. Most do well if maintained. You know my two favorites.

I have a great respect for teak, feel it's extremely important to maintain this noble wood, and strive to keep it out of direct sun light and salt spray at all cost. Here is a long term low maintenance solution for teak hand rails.













Ted

Ted,
You've raised more questions than answers.

Details details details or it's just a few pictures.

How do they get from the redish brown stuff that looks goopy to the smooth white. And if by sanding how does one avoid ending up w ridiculously thin overcoat or sanding right through??....

78puget,
I know the difference but hand rails get scuffed up too. Probably not so much from feet but dragging stuff over them ... perhaps tool or boxes of stuff. Same issue .. when the hard scuff resistant coatings crack water gets to the teak and under the coating. That results in black stains and the water slowly spreads out and lifts off the coating. My experience has been that flexability is more important than hardness. Add touch up friendliness to that preference as well.

Good God! Did they put that filler on with a hair comb or a wire brush?

And why not just seal the rails with clear epoxy and then prime and paint?

Our boat had freshly redone varnish (pratt and lambert) on the hand rails when we bought it almost six years ago. We had sunbrella covers made. Since purchase we have had more varnish applied two or three times-a couple of coats each time. The varnish looks great. Though we rarely take the covers off to enjoy it.

good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Bill maybe "just seal" is'nt that good of a seal.
If you did that water may sneak in under the CR and you'd be right back to water intrusion. Boat builders thought they'd sealed the stringers in the bottom of the hull too but almost all have rotted out. And they worshiped FG even more than most here worship epoxy.

Water goes everywhere in a boat.

PG,
Did you learn that from Marin?

Nomad Willy said:

Ted,
You've raised more questions than answers.

Details details details or it's just a few pictures.

How do they get from the redish brown stuff that looks goopy to the smooth white. And if by sanding how does one avoid ending up w ridiculously thin overcoat or sanding right through??....

78puget,
I know the difference but hand rails get scuffed up too. Probably not so much from feet but dragging stuff over them ... perhaps tool or boxes of stuff. Same issue .. when the hard scuff resistant coatings crack water gets to the teak and under the coating. That results in black stains and the water slowly spreads out and lifts off the coating. My experience has been that flexability is more important than hardness. Add touch up friendliness to that preference as well.

Click to expand...

Capt.Bill11 said:

Good God! Did they put that filler on with a hair comb or a wire brush?

And why not just seal the rails with clear epoxy and then prime and paint?

Click to expand...

The Process: The teak was sanded down so that the West System would soak into clean wood and the finished product would be approximately the same size as the original cap rail. The caulk was removed between the teak and the fiberglass it was attached to. A slot was formed where the caulk was so the bi-axial cloth with WS could be tucked under the teak cap rail. After the cloth was applied and tucked, a WS with bonding filler additive was applied as a filet to bond the cloth to the fiberglass below the cap rail and fill the remaining slot space. Finally, WS with fairing additive (West System frosting) was applied with a paint brush. From wetting out the teak with WS, through applying the cloth, tucking, and filleting, to applying the frosting, all the steps were done in one day so that all the WS would bond and cure together.

Sanding, shaping was done by a pro, Sean, so that there would be no sanding through the bi-axial cloth. The object was to have very little of the frosting left as it's only to fill the cloth print voids. The process encapsulated the teak and gave it a barrier (the cloth) much stronger and more puncture resistant than simply applying multiple coats of WS and painting over it. After the sanding was completed, the cap rail (and the rest of the boat) recieved 2 coats of Awlgrip primer, was sanded, and then 2 to 4 coats of Awlgrip Ultra Build. The white you see in the picture is the Ultra Build which is the final fairing stage for that perfect smoothness. After the Ultra Build is sanded, 2 more coats of Awlgrip primer sealer, sand lightly again, and then 2 coats of Awlgrip top coat.

What I ended up with is a surface as durable as the hull with a 15+ year projected life for the paint. There will likely be hard wear areas that may need to be repainted. Most likely it will be sanding, repriming, and top coating. Same as repairing scratched paint over fiberglass.

If you look carefully, you can see the teak rub rail below the cap rail. That was also encapsulated, but with 2 layers of bi-axial cloth with WS to be even more durable.



This is the transom door after everything through the fairing of the Ultra Build. It's ready for final priming and top coating.









After the top coat, but before the Stainless steel rub stake that covers the exterior paint line.









Ted

The end result looks amazing. I am not sure what is more daunting however, the amount of work involved or the expense of paying for the work to be done.

Nomad Willy said:

Did you learn that from Marin?

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Someone I actually know recommended it.

Pineapple Girl said:

Our boat had freshly redone varnish (pratt and lambert) on the hand rails when we bought it almost six years ago. We had sunbrella covers made. Since purchase we have had more varnish applied two or three times-a couple of coats each time. The varnish looks great. Though we rarely take the covers off to enjoy it.

good luck with whatever you decide to do!

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Matt and Jennifer's handrails are perhaps the best I've ever seen.

We've been using Awlgrip's Awlwood MA system.
Great so far, time will tell I guess.

I'm in the process of redoing wood on my boat. If you want easy and pretty good, go Cetol. I've also been very happy with Man O War Spar Varnish. It looks amazing on Mahogany, but a bit more particular to apply.

Remove the old varnish with a heat gun and scrapper (decent once bought on Amazon). I started with small pieces that I could take home and practice with. Once you get the hang of it, you can make an old boat look really good again for very little $$$...well, the wood parts at least.

pratt and lambert, kept under sunbrella cover

stornoway7 said:

We've been using Awlgrip's Awlwood MA system.
Great so far, time will tell I guess.

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I've used that in the past, good stuff.