AP Recommendations

10 years ago the PO installed a Raymarine package including an S2 autopilot. The AP works but has never worked very well. I've talked with Raymarine about it, adjusted the heck out of it, and even installed an external rate gyro. See the pics for examples of how it works following a straight track in fairly benign conditions.

Forget about it handling the boat in a following sea.

Anyone have a specific AP that works better than this? Which manufacturer/model? If it can hold a course well and follow NMEA 0183 track command I'd be happy. Of course I want to spend as little as possible.

A cheap and easy solution would be the current Raymarine Evolution offering. But given my experience with the S2 I'm leery. (Though in fairness the ST6000 I had on the sailboat worked well.) Anyone have good or bad experiences with the Evolution?

Thanks.

Simrad

I have a Simrad that I have been happy with.

Recb said:

I have a Simrad that I have been happy with.

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Ditto

Based on experience in a chartered boat and first hand discussions with owners, when I considered replacing my old Robertson (which I never got around to) I settled on Comnav. They have simple units, such as the one in the Grand Banks 49 we rented.

FWIW, I installed a new Raymarine Evolution last summer and have been very happy with it.

David Rive said:

FWIW, I installed a new Raymarine Evolution last summer and have been very happy with it.

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Did you happen to replace an existing AP where you could compare the performance of the Evolution to its predecessor?

danderer said:

Anyone have good or bad experiences with the Evolution?.

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I have a brand new EV200 that I'm happy with but don't have a lot of hours on it. Years ago I had a ComNav (1001?) that was on my 30' Pilot. I don't think that I'll ever have an AP that's as easy to operate & is as fool proof as that!

In a following sea only a sail boat with an Aries in the water vane steering can work.

On any power boat the boat must change heading as the AP can not (yet) anticipate the motion a wave will cause.

IF you can hand steer , while only looking Fwd , an AP should be able to do a similar job.

If you have a hard time , perhaps the rudder should be refined or enlarged first.

In theory a steering sensor , a pivoting oar on the stern might be able to steer in a heavy following sea , but so far .........
\
Perhaps the auto world will yield a radar AP that can see the wave coming astern and have a correcting program.

Last fall I helped a friend take his boat down the ICW. His Kadey Krogan 48 a Simrad autopilot. I could not use it as the boat wandered from side to side and I was worried we would crash.

My current OA has a 13 year old Raymarine which works flawlessly.

Are you sure it is an autopilot issue and not a course computer or flux gate compass issue? Generally, in my experience, adjusting the sensitivity up or down solves almost all problems. This is my second Ray Marine autopilot, the first being on our sailboat, and all tracked straight and true.

Gordon

my older ST5000+ has taken to wandering a bit.


I know the internal battery must be dead as it no longer remembers settings.


But I think the real cause is a tiny bit of air in the system....if the upper helm sits for a week or two the wandering is there...if I go up and turn the wheel a bit from side to side...the wandering stops.


On my project list.....any chance air could be an issue?

psneeld said:

On my project list.....any chance air could be an issue?

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Interesting thought. The system was refilled and bled a couple years ago without impacting the AP performance so seems unlikely.

Gordon J said:

Are you sure it is an autopilot issue and not a course computer or flux gate compass issue? Generally, in my experience, adjusting the sensitivity up or down solves almost all problems. This is my second Ray Marine autopilot, the first being on our sailboat, and all tracked straight and true.

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Well, pretty sure. When I say AP in this case I mean the S2 computer. The ST8002 controller has it's own independent problems (the knob for dialing in a course is getting very flaky).

The sailboat unit we had could be adjusted to work well. The owners group had a full set of parameters to set to get that AP to play well with the sailboat and when set it worked well.

The S2 has been adjusted many times per RM tech support with no real improvement.

Raymarine S2 vs. S2G with rate gyro

My old boat came with an S2 computer and I was not happy with the wandering that it exhibited. I searched the net and found articles relating the same issues. Came across a good buy on Ebay for an add on rate gyro .. bought it and the difference was night and day. Tracked true and had very little over steer. My new system ... EV-100 with the 3 gyros has been great and with the dial controller to change course .. very easy power steer.

I've dealt with 4 Raymarine autopilots over the last 5 years. First was an old ST7000 that wandered all over the place. On that one the Fluxgate compass just wasn't up to it and the software couldn't be updated. It ended up the course computer was failing. Replaced it with an EVO200 when it was relatively new. I never could correct the "No pilot" errors caused by communications problems between the EVO autopilot and two Lowrance MFDs on the same NMEA2000 network. Swore I would never do that again. Last boat came with an really old Raymarine Autohelm autopilot that seemed to work pretty well until the remote failed and took a Seatalk communications port with it. The fluxgate compass on that one was also flaky especially when you sent it a route. I really needed the remote but had no way to connect it with the bad Seatalk Port. Labored on what to replace it with and simplest route was the EVO.

I researched the recent history of the EVO and asked Raymarine on the forum about the problems I had as recently as 18 months ago. They assured me they had been corrected. Well, I took that at their word and put one in. This one was a much different experience until I matched it up with an S100 remote. It took a couple of weeks to work out the remote problem (The remote comes defaulted into the "Fishing Boat" type which apparently when matched to an EVO autopilot works like a random number generator to the course computer.)

The only outstanding issue with the EVO is trying to send it a track. Both Raymarine and Garmin MFDs send some autopilot NMEA2000 PGNs with no data in them when there is no route specified. Because of this you have to turn one or the other MFD off and reboot the EVO before you activate a track. I have brought this up to both Raymarine and Garmin and both said it shouldn't be a problem. That's true in their own isolated worlds.

Tom

I have run AP's of (I think) all manufacturers on deliveries over the years and have had several on my own boats. I have no doubt that ComNav is the best on the market.

ComNav.
I now have 3000 hours on it and it takes everything I get myself into.

Following seas no problem.
And I disagree with FF's assessment that they won't work with a power boat in a following sea. Works great if you adjust correctly.

Raymarine Autopilot

We recently put on an EV-100, and now have about 55 hours on it. I am pleased with it - it's easy to use - though I am still fiddling with settings. I have never had an AP on a boat this small or fast, so I can offer no comparisons other than it seems to work like the big boats' autopilots.

It has been problem free. We got a smokin' deal from the retailer, and money back from the manufacturer. I had it professionally installed and I set it up myself.

I ran a couple of older charter boats in the last few years that had Raymarine APs, and they both worked well.

I would purchase one again without hesitation.

Good Luck

Have a Simrad AP20 with an AP21 remote and a docking station remote all hardwired. Once adjusted, I'm very happy with it! As with all good things, if you like it, buy a second because their going to change it.....not for the better. From what I saw in 2015 at the Miami boat show, Comnav will likely be the replacement if / when the Simrad fails.

Ted

"And I disagree with FF's assessment that they won't work with a power boat in a following sea. Works great if you adjust correctly. __________________"

I have to admit I have not been shipmate with a unit with a gyro that could react to the stern slewing off Instantly.

The units I am used to sense the wave knock the stern off course and then steer it back on course.

No problem, although the track viewed would not be straight.

A gyro and computer might be able to learn a situation .

Wxx3 said:

ComNav.
I now have 3000 hours on it and it takes everything I get myself into.

Following seas no problem.
And I disagree with FF's assessment that they won't work with a power boat in a following sea. Works great if you adjust correctly.

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What model ComNav for a 35ft boat & mechanical steering?

dhmeissner said:

What model ComNav for a 35ft boat & mechanical steering?

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Give the ComNav folks a call, they are typically very helpful and straightforward.

Wandering by APs is often due to something upsetting the fluxgate compass, like some new appliance or metal object being placed nearby. Or, incomplete adjustment and set up. I was frustrated with my Robertson until a helpful phone tech (back when Simrad still supported it) walked me through set up appropriate to my boat. That's why I never got around to replacing it.

comnav 1001 on my boat, uses the fluxgate and the rate sensor. I understand you can't buy the rate sensor any more, so fluxgate only which is a notably slower response than with the rate sensor. Alternatively, you can put in a tri-axis compass or even a gps type, but will need an additional sine/cosine converter to read the data.

I also located my compass and rate sensor further aft on the boat, so in following seas when the stern begins to move the a/p responds a bit quicker.

My steering is hydraulic and I use a slightly larger hyd. pump which also gives a bit faster response.

Agree that all you would have to do is call Comnav and they will be happy to size a system to your boat.

AP

I would also recommend Comnav.

I had a Cetrec hydraulic ap on a 28' troller, the pump was direct reversing.
Wore out a couple of motors. Put about a thousand hours a year on the
boat.
Moved the ap to new boat, 38' with mechanical steering. Had a couple
of heavy duty solenoids built into a switching control for a Wood-Freeman
drive motor. Worked so - so.
Installed new Comnav 2001 ap. Pilot worked well.
Changed to hydraulic steering with engine driven pump and solenoid valves.
Fantastic system.
The compass has a major effect on the pilot control according to Comnav.
I had (still have in storage) a 9 or 9 1/2 inch card compass, the same
model Comnav used in their design and testing.
I now have a Wagner Mark IV pilot wired to a Wood-Freeman 110 volt DC
pump system. Seems to hold compass course OK. Can not use input fom
GPS, plotters etc.

What I know about Comnav;

Good service
2001 worked very well - would like another one but expensive
1001 supposed to be much the same, a couple less buttons
about 1/2 the price
1420 designed for the yacht market

Ted

Raymarine EV 200 for 2 years. Love it.
Replace a RM ST5000+
Money well spent

hjorgan said:

Raymarine EV 200 for 2 years. Love it.

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(WHEW!) Just bought one.

An autopilot reacts but does not anticipate. A human helmsman can anticipate; easiest in an open cockpit with a tiller, but possible with a wheel in an enclosed pilothouse.

I had to toss this into the autopilot discussion.

Tesla's 'Autopilot' feature probed after fatal crash

Seems after many hundreds of thousands of miles, Tesla had their first autopilot crash. Same thing the critics of autopilot here point out that he wasn't paying attention and the color of the truck fooled the autopilot. However, also in the tests to date they've shown the autopilot is overall far safer than the average motorist.

Now, my understanding of what is supposed to happen is even with the autopilot the driver is supposed to keep their hands on the wheel and the car stop if they don't.

New slogan:

Autopliot: Not just for planes and boats anymore.

Codger2 said:

(WHEW!) Just bought one.

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Another vote for Raymarine! We have the EV-400 and it's been a dream. It replaced an old Robertson that was on its last legs.

Easy to install and interface with the other RM gadgets, a quick dockside commissioning and away we went. 2 years zero headaches...

Just a note from my experience with the Raymarine EVO. It plays well in its own yard, but it gets finicky when other manufacturers and software are in the same yard. Two key issues are how to send routes to it and how to update the software. I still haven't quite figured out reliably sending routes to it in a mixed environment (Garmin, Raymarine, and Coastal Explorer) without turning things off. Also if you need to update the software on the EVO you can only do that from a Raymarine MFD (Check the Raymarine web site to see if your model can be used).

I suspect similar issues will come up with Garmin and Simrad and probably Furuno. I downloaded and read all their installation and operation manuals before I chose the Raymarine EVO. It came down to which one appeared to be the easiest to integrate into my electronics. Garmin was the hardest one to install due to cabling requirements.

Tom

I think all the vendors have made improvements in the area's in which they were weakest and lagged behind. With that accomplished, although it's not practical most of the time once you start with a mix, I feel like probably having the complete suite of products from any of the manufacturers is better in the long run than any combination of products you can come up with.

Having Brand A's navigation software and B's Radar and C's Autopilot may give you the best of all, but when one needs upgrading or replacing, it brings about a more complicated world. There was a time when some of them were just really bad with certain of their products. They've done a better job of keeping up with their competition. I think they've all also realized that if they want to get the contracts with the new boat builders of production boats, it requires a single package. If Builder X likes A's Navigation and Radar and overall systems but doesn't trust their Autopilot they're likely to move on to B's equipment.