How do delivery captains work?

Reading Boatkied's thread about his new Seahorse 52 and moving it from Ft Meyers to Annapolis, I wonder;

On a multi day delivery;
How do captains charge, by day, hours, miles, flat rate?
Are they regulated to maximum hours in a day?
Do they stay on the boat or are you expected to hotel them every night?
On a long run would two captains be cheaper than one?
Do they bring a crew on larger boats?
What else?

I hired a delivery skipper (plus my son as crew) to move our boat from Savannah, GA to the upper Chesapeake after a hurricane ruined my original schedule, stranding me at work. He charged by the day, slept on the boat and ran overnight a couple of times. We did provide a meal allowance. IIRC, he took less than 5 days and averaged about 150 miles/day. He's used regularly by Kadey Krogen so I figured I could trust him with Stella. Overall, it was much less expensive than I feared, but in the future I hope to do all my own deliveries.

Angus99 has the basics right. If it is a pure delivery where the owner will not be on board, then the captain brings his own crew and charges by the day plus provisions, fuel and maintenance. The captain and crew sleeps on board, usually at a marina but sometimes straight through offshore, but that usually takes at least three persons.


You can also just hire a captain and be your own crew.


David

Hawgwash said:

Reading Boatkied's thread about his new Seahorse 52 and moving it from Ft Meyers to Annapolis, I wonder;

On a multi day delivery;
How do captains charge, by day, hours, miles, flat rate?
Are they regulated to maximum hours in a day?
Do they stay on the boat or are you expected to hotel them every night?
On a long run would two captains be cheaper than one?
Do they bring a crew on larger boats?
What else?

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Well, kinda all the above depending on the captain or company you hire.

Mostly by the day, some will do flat rate, which is basically the same because the by the day guys will often be contingent on a weather day here and there, maintenance day paid. Hours a day is flexible...but most will do at least a 12 hr day, daylight permitting.

Overnights will shorten the number of days and can be billed in several ways but certainly a second captain or crew will be factored in. It also depends on boat, time of year, schedules, etc .

Cheaper can be a fluid thing depending on how things get billed and what the captain will, won't do....but is it a roll of YOUR dice.

Most will either bill for a daily allowance or it will be factored in.

Boat allowing, most stay aboard. Most will use marinas, some will anchor, sometimes.

For longer runs and or bigger boats, often there is a day required to learn and inspect the boat.

Some captains will do maintenance and give the boat a hosing down at the end of the day, some wont. Some owners demand that the boat be scrubbed to prevent water spots...that can be an issue depending on size and crew....but can be negotiated...after all, it's just money for boats/owners like that.

Some guys or women will run the boat solo, others refuse.

The real trick is with the sheer volume of delivery captains out there, is finding one that you really trust ...not only to take care of your boat, but be reasonable and astute during the trip.

A lot of guys talk a good line and have a "great" resume'......but I know more than a few that barely should have their captains license (which isn't required in the US...unless there are passengers for hire).

New owners not familiar with any captains will often use a company that provides captains as hopefully they have been vetted well and have good reviews.

djmarchand said:

Angus99 has the basics right.

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150 miles on a day rate sounds pretty good to me.

Hawgwash said:

150 miles on a day rate sounds pretty good to me.

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Yes, at 8-10 knots, I was pleased. Just a rough average that included a couple of overnighters and stops for fueling and one repair. I, of course, left it to his discretion as to when and how long to run but it ended up taking about as long as he had predicted.

Hawgwash said:

150 miles on a day rate sounds pretty good to me.

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Depends on so many things...

Remember the captain deserves fair pay for a days work.

Bridges get stuck, locks break, dredge block channels, etc..etc....some runs have to be extended or shortened for all kinds of reasons.

That's why I said it was important to trust the guy as equal as his credentials.

angus99 said:

Yes, at 8-10 knots, I was pleased. Just a rough average that included a couple of overnighters and stops for fueling and one repair. I, of course, left it to his discretion as to when and how long to run but it ended up taking about as long as he had predicted.

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Was he charging for 2 captains?

Overnighter and more than 12 hr days pretty well demand it for fatigue reasons.

Having known captains for both big Sea Ray operations, Silverton and Viking Yacths...they span the gamut of competence....the good last and the not so good may or may not depending on their luck. Just hope you get a good one using that logic.

Another tip is using a captain familiar with your type vessel. Nothing worse than listening to a captain with tons of experience discuss how they made a delivery of a vessel type they had never run before....like the first time they run a 70 plus sportfish.

psneeld; said:

New owners not familiar with any captains will often use a company that provides captains as hopefully they have been vetted well and have good reviews.

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Yes, hopefully. Unlike heavy equipment "providers" sending someone they have never seen to bash around next to your house. Dispatchers is all they are.

I've delivered a couple of boats on the rivers and Great Lakes. My only charge was provisions, fuel and maintenance cost. Slept onboard and usually anchored out, I cooked 2 meals a day breakfast and dinner, the owners made sandwiches for lunch. I did all the navigating and planning fuel and provision stops. Last one was 19 days and 1054 miles, lost 3 days to weather on Lake Huron. I enjoy the traveling and running different boats to get a idea of how they handle and how they are for liveaboard comfort.

Hawgwash said:

Reading Boatkied's thread about his new Seahorse 52 and moving it from Ft Meyers to Annapolis, I wonder;

On a multi day delivery;
How do captains charge, by day, hours, miles, flat rate?
Are they regulated to maximum hours in a day?
Do they stay on the boat or are you expected to hotel them every night?
On a long run would two captains be cheaper than one?
Do they bring a crew on larger boats?
What else?

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1) By the day. Or sometimes a flat rate.
I charge for my travel days and expenses to and from if need be. Plus any down days due to weather, mechanical failure, etc.

2) No real regulations till you get up to the much larger vessels.

3) Normally I stay on the boat. Unless there is an issue with it that would prevent it.

4) I don't see how.

5) I do. Even on relatively small ones depending on the circumstances.

6) You normally pay for food, travel expenses, etc.

I have done many deliveries between the Northeast and Florida, but also local to Bahamas and other shorter trips. I always charged a daily rate that was the same for weather delays unless it was more than three days. Same rate for mechanical delays. I never had a delay for a bent prop while I was running the boat. Same rate for me if the owner bent a prop. I would run from dawn until it was just late enough to buy fuel at the end of the day still in daylight. If I ran offshore at night a second captain and second mate had to be on board.
The owners insurance covers the boat, if an owner hired a captain run by themselves without a mate there could be a problem with insurance if there was a claim. I was always approved by the insurance agent prior to doing the trip.
I always slept on board, if it was too small to sleep on it was too small to need a delivery captain.
The owner paid for expenses including going out to dinner at a reasonably price restaurant.

yachtbrokerguy said:

I have done many deliveries between the Northeast and Florida, but also local to Bahamas and other shorter trips. I always charged a daily rate that was the same for weather delays unless it was more than three days. Same rate for mechanical delays. I never had a delay for a bent prop while I was running the boat. Same rate for me if the owner bent a prop. I would run from dawn until it was just late enough to buy fuel at the end of the day still in daylight. If I ran offshore at night a second captain and second mate had to be on board.
The owners insurance covers the boat, if an owner hired a captain run by themselves without a mate there could be a problem with insurance if there was a claim. I was always approved by the insurance agent prior to doing the trip.
I always slept on board, if it was too small to sleep on it was too small to need a delivery captain.
The owner paid for expenses including going out to dinner at a reasonably price restaurant.

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Pretty standard ....and fair.

There are those that run for fun or experience...and set the bar all over the place.

psneeld said:

Was he charging for 2 captains?

Overnighter and more than 12 hr days pretty well demand it for fatigue reasons.

Having known captains for both big Sea Ray operations, Silverton and Viking Yacths...they span the gamut of competence....the good last and the not so good may or may not depending on their luck. Just hope you get a good one using that logic.

Another tip is using a captain familiar with your type vessel. Nothing worse than listening to a captain with tons of experience discuss how they made a delivery of a vessel type they had never run before....like the first time they run a 70 plus sportfish.

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Agree this is not a casual decision. In my case, my son served as crew and alternated watch duties--X hours on, X hours off. Overnighters were, of course, offshore--no night-time travel on the ICW. I never rely on a single recommendation, but the endorsement of Kadey Krogen Yachts, Inc and my broker carried some weight. Plus, he had delivered Defevers before--as well as 100+ foot Burgers.

Man I need to get into this.

SaltyDawg86 said:

Man I need to get into this.

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Hard to make a living at it...

Tends to be seasonal and you are gone non-stop if you get the work. Not bad if your significant other loves it and they can be crew.

Plus...too many hacks into it now....anyone will move a boat for the jollies. Takes away from the serious side of the business.

Sad thing is...boating really isn't all that hard and hacks move many boats without incident so it keeps the economics to the point where it is hard to justify your worth. Now if you can break into the 65 foot and up crowdit is more professional in my experience...

psneeld said:

Now if you can break into the 65 foot and up crowdit is more professional in my experience...

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Especially if you get them added to your insurance. They'll check them out. And to all, make sure to get approval for them from your insurer.

All I need is some seasonal work. I think I'm pretty qualified to do it.

SaltyDawg86 said:

All I need is some seasonal work. I think I'm pretty qualified to do it.

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Be careful...a lot of small boat operators have dealt with pro Mariners that couldn't operate a small vessel to save their butts....

No need to overpower the process...just state the obvious and get references in the smal, vessel world.

Unless of course you are breaking into the mega yacht world which you have p,entry of experience in....

I was more than capable of running a 25ft single screw boat at 15, at 19 I was running a 36ft twin screw fishing boat, at 22 I was running a 5400 hp zdrive tug that was 82ft and at 27 I was running a 6000 hp, 320 OSV. No tugs or pilots on that boat, did the boat handling on my own (when I was on watch). Like I said, pretty qualified.

psneeld said:

Sad thing is...boating really isn't all that hard...

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I just got back from helping an inexperienced gent move his new-to-him old boat some four hundred miles. Volunteered..no charge. Twin diesel boat had been having fuel starvation problems, so that was a known, although the tanks were supposedly cleaned by a professional. Unanticipated failures encountered during the three day trip included instantaneous disconnect of a propeller shaft coupling while at high power on plane, dual alternator failure, fresh water system failure, transmission shifting problems, depth finder failure, and 20+ power failures from fuel starvation. Some "uncomfortable" moments including the shaft disconnect and the subsequent entry into a crowded marina with very tight turns while on one engine (the wrong one for what had to be done). Tiny rudders, balky shifter, tight spaces. There are instances where boating can be "hard".

While the boat made it to destination with minimal expense to the owner, the trip was anything but easy. In this situation the roles and responsibilities of the owner and the "assist" skipper can become very blurred. I found myself being forced to take on far more responsibility for decision making and safety of the boat and crew than I had imagined or wanted. Same could happen with a hired captain riding with an owner. Who's in charge...

SaltyDawg86 said:

I was more than capable of running a 25ft single screw boat at 15, at 19 I was running a 36ft twin screw fishing boat, at 22 I was running a 5400 hp zdrive tug that was 82ft and at 27 I was running a 6000 hp, 320 OSV. No tugs or pilots on that boat, did the boat handling on my own (when I was on watch). Like I said, pretty qualified.

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Handling the boat is the easy part.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Handling the boat is the easy part.

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It's all easy compared to working in the oil field.

semi-planing said:

Who's in charge...

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I try to make that clear from the start.

Only had an issue with it once.

At the dock it is the owner until you decided to leave the dock then it is up to the captain is my rule of thumb.

SD you already know who is in charge, look at you El Faro comments....

Know your limitations.

semi-planing said:

I just got back from helping an inexperienced gent move his new-to-him old boat some four hundred miles. Volunteered..no charge. Twin diesel boat had been having fuel starvation problems, so that was a known, although the tanks were supposedly cleaned by a professional. Unanticipated failures encountered during the three day trip included instantaneous disconnect of a propeller shaft coupling while at high power on plane, dual alternator failure, fresh water system failure, transmission shifting problems, depth finder failure, and 20+ power failures from fuel starvation. Some "uncomfortable" moments including the shaft disconnect and the subsequent entry into a crowded marina with very tight turns while on one engine (the wrong one for what had to be done). Tiny rudders, balky shifter, tight spaces. There are instances where boating can be "hard".

While the boat made it to destination with minimal expense to the owner, the trip was anything but easy. In this situation the roles and responsibilities of the owner and the "assist" skipper can become very blurred. I found myself being forced to take on far more responsibility for decision making and safety of the boat and crew than I had imagined or wanted. Same could happen with a hired captain riding with an owner. Who's in charge...

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Some people make everything in life hard...

In your one trip you had more failures than I have had in 45 years of personal boats, hundreds of deliveries, and 15 years of running commercial boats..maybe that should tell you something..

Every weekend completely clueless boaters take their boats out and have a great time....yes a few have issues...but most dont.

Boating is relatively easy if not in over your head.

If you had properly blessed your boat, any serious problems wouldn't occur until you had entered your home berth. That's been my experience.



As when a portion of my propeller shaft fell apart:

markpierce said:

Know your limitations.

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As a captain your "limitations" are pretty well spelled out.