Boaters Missing off Englewood Florida

There is no easy fix for some things. Most people choose the situation they are in or do not have the drive to do more. Everyone here was apparently able bodied and old enough to make decisions. Who led them and set an example? Too bad for the aimless children.

Yes, the father knew the conditions were bad and still didn't have the kids put on life jackets.

Apparently, they've been living on the boat that hadn't been maintained for about a year. He decided to sail it in rough seas (I've heard 6' but haven't found any confirmation of that and places I looked showed less) from Sarasota to Fort Myers to do repairs at his brothers, which explains why he called his brother and then why subsequently the brother called the CG. I don't understand how a parent can be so irresponsible.

So they've identified the first body as that of the 17 yr old daughter and now they've found a second body.
Just heard on the news that a sailboat mast has been spotted and they have boats on the way to investigate.

So damned sad.

While skill can make some difficult tasks simple lack of skill can make relatively simple tasks deadly.

It is a shame.

Star0210 said:

So they've identified the first body as that of the 17 yr old daughter and now they've found a second body.
Just heard on the news that a sailboat mast has been spotted and they have boats on the way to investigate.

So damned sad.

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I think I read the sailboat mast was spotted more than 100 miles or more offshore, about 3 times further out than the area of the debris field....not likely linked to the case.

The second body was found 4 miles from the first....with the time difference, to be expected and probably where the others are/were at one point.

That's probably why the number of SAR assets is actually pretty low....the "real" search area is pretty well defined now.

psneeld said:

I think I read the sailboat mast was spotted more than 100 miles or more offshore, about 3 times further out than the area of the debris field....not likely linked to the case.

The second body was found 4 miles from the first....with the time difference, to be expected and probably where the others are/were at one point.

That's probably why the number of SAR assets is actually pretty low....the "real" search area is pretty well defined now.

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What a terrible situation, lt is hard to imagine the last moments of those kids, hopefully some survivors will be found.
The report I heard was that the girl was wearing a life jacket, don't know about second body found

We've had a tradition of pretty sketchy vessels here in Sarasota. The city was infamous for taking the harbor anchorage and creating a paid mooring field, part of an attempt to fend off derelict vessels and unaccountability of abstract ownership. It worked, but quite a few simply moved a little further south to another anchorage field. If indeed, the vessel in question was in less than safe operable condition, it wouldn't be out of line with many other vessels that are there now. When the winds visit us, you can usually find a few of them torn from anchor lines and moorings, later to be found aground here and there along the Gulf ICW or Sarasota Bay. A decision to sail down to Ft. Myers seems doable for almost anything that sails. I haven't heard whether or not the boat had a working engine, but if it didn't, it would be a challenge to manage the boat on some of the narrow sections of the ICW from south Sarasota to Charlotte Harbor. This may have been why they chose to go outside. So sorry for the family and friends as we may never know the details....details that many may prefer not to know.

psneeld said:

Usually more to the story as 6 foot waves are hardly survival size....maybe uncomfortable...unless the boat was awful...

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True. But IF they ran into a thunderstorm (who knows?) and IF they did not take the sails down when they saw it coming (again, who knows?) then the boat could have been laid on its side easily. A thunderstorm cell can generate gusts of 50 or 60 knots, as you know.

But . . . who knows? A tragedy no matter how you look at it.

Sure, there are always what ifs that can kill the best salty dog....

We will probably never know the real cause of what happened...but we do know that 6 foot seas no matter how steep shouldn't do in the average 29 foot sailboat....as it is done all the time....

Seems the bodies have been ID as the father and daughter, and the search called off today.
The boat had an outboard motor and, the boat, was not "in the best shape". Sad, what a difference motoring in the ICW would have made.

There are just so many reasons this shouldn't have happened. Yet, sadly, these type of circumstances and events do continue to occur regularly.

This morning while having coffee at my local marina, A good friend and marina regular also stopped in and told the story about his trip from Sanibel north to St. Petersburg and got caught outside in the same squall that Ace Kimberly reported to his brother at 3 PM that day, saying that they were taking 6 ft. waves. Apparently this squall was a lot worse than assumed from the report. My friend's boat is a 43 ft. Searay,...not exactly an ocean boat, but the guy has decades on the water and most of it was sailing. He says he took green water over the bow, big spray over the entire boat, and admitted that he and his wife were terrified. Maybe they really were caught by a burst while taking some seas.

High Wire said:

I wonder why not take the ICW during bad weather? Got to be more to this story.

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Like High Wire said, why didn't they take the ICW? We went from Sarasota south to Cape Haze that Sunday, on the ICW. All was good. The picture of the family at Marina Jacks shows the dad red faced.
The shortest distance to Fort Myers is taking the ICW.
Authorities need to look at the mind set of the Dad to understand the real cause of these deaths.
It is really sad when kids have to be part of the price adults pay for their own issues.

healhustler said:

This morning while having coffee at my local marina, A good friend and marina regular also stopped in and told the story about his trip from Sanibel north to St. Petersburg and got caught outside in the same squall that Ace Kimberly reported to his brother at 3 PM that day, saying that they were taking 6 ft. waves. Apparently this squall was a lot worse than assumed from the report. My friend's boat is a 43 ft. Searay,...not exactly an ocean boat, but the guy has decades on the water and most of it was sailing. He says he took green water over the bow, big spray over the entire boat, and admitted that he and his wife were terrified. Maybe they really were caught by a burst while taking some seas.

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I hate to seem unfeeling...but remember I was the guy who went out in those squalls to search.... and worse...sent my friends into them when I was too senior. Plus ....I was the guy who called off the searches and had to phone the mother of the kids....so lecture me all you want...I can live with it.

BUT...6 foot waves are not a survival situation unless the boat is a wreck (but think of Kon Tiki and other 3rd world type boats hat have survived much worse).

In a 43 Sea Ray, 6 footers are uncomfy (worked and delivered MANY Sea Rays over 5 years) if trying to make time into them...most peoples definition of green water is really just heavy spray and terrifying is really due to lack of experience and knowledge....been there done that.


Had a friends wife hysterically crying and wanted me to call the USCG when in a 38 Sea Ray in DelBay short chop 6 footers. The heavy spray was running through all the poorly designed canvas. Did I hate the conditions? You betcha...but not even scary let alone survival...just soaking the boat in salt spray including the nav station....which is what was pissing me off if that became an issue.

I can make all kinds of assumptions in this incident...but except for a few "common theme type things"...nothing is concrete and many speculating and relating to their completely different experiences is just fluff like anything I or anyone says in the matter.

Run hypothetical situations that mimic this and learn from them...great...that's what we are supposed to do. Like any incident. I call these incidents rather than accidents or foolishness until something concrete confirms it one way or another.

The Gulf is like Lake Erie, when the wind comes up fast and builds 6 foot waves they are very steep and very close together.

It gets real ugly real fast.

At this time of year I can see sailing off the coast as opposed to taking the ICW. No bridges, no no wake zones, way less boat traffic, etc. and it could be a very nice sail what with the normal breezes this time of year.

If this storm wasn't predicted than this is all 20/20 hindsight speculation and damning a man with few or no first hand facts.

Still...a second hand first generation (cheap) Spot Messenger would of had rescuers there pronto!

Or even better, a PLB or EPIRB as there is no middleman in the SAR business.

The SPOT info has to be passed to the SAR centers via the SPOT network.

Probably no real difference...but still....

Again, not incorrect hindsight statements.

But under normal conditions this should have been a simple mile or two offshore sail. Not one that you would think would require a SPOT or EPIRB.

And again, while it's cheap insurance, the vast majority of small boats that go even farther offshore don't seem to carry them.

So personally I have a hard time faulting this guy for not having one either.

Heck I'd be surprised if the majority on the members on here have one or the other on board. And I not talking about the vocal majority but the true majority.

If I'm right, some one should organize a group buy.

I have a PLB tied onto an inflatable PFD for when I go offshore, or when alone sometimes I wear it. Don't have an EPIRB.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Again, not incorrect hindsight statements.

But under normal conditions this should have been a simple mile or two offshore sail. Not one that you would think would require a SPOT or EPIRB.

And again, while it's cheap insurance, the vast majority of small boats that go even farther offshore don't seem to carry them.

So personally I have a hard time faulting this guy for not having one either.

Heck I'd be surprised if the majority on the members on here have one or the other on board. And I not talking about the vocal majority but the true majority.

If I'm right, some one should organize a group buy.

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I am not questioning the captain or crew...but I will question those that think something should be done or not, something is too expensive or not, whether the govt should mandate them or not, how the USCG spends their budget or not...

Forums are often sound bites that are often misread...I do it quite often and only catch myself most of the time.

I have no horse in this race so I could care less what the captain decided. I feel bad...but I have thousands of "feel bads" under my belt.

As I said...I am not second guessing the captain and crew as much as the posters who don't necessarily have all the facts and how they are trying to apply certain things in this case. The same I do with any incident.

I've been using a Spot ever since they came out. Before that, I would tell my wife which valley I was going into and what creek or mountain I'd be photographing on. Sometimes the area didn't pan out, so I'd have to drive for an hour or so back to cell phone range to give her the new area I was heading towards.

With the Spot, I send an OK message every time I strike off in a new direction. This way the search starts from my last OK, not her telling search and rescue, "He's somewhere in the Big Wedeene Valley" and then they have to waste time trying to find my vehicle just to begin the search.

We bring it on the boat every time.

This may sound over the top, but she once had to wait days before learning the outcome to a family tragedy, and I don't want her to ever go through that again.

I got a SPOT to send with my son when he hiked the John Muir Trail solo. He took only reluctantly. I plan on taking on the boat with us, I just haven't done it yet.

I hike solo as well...HUGE peace of mind factor

When a mast comes down, all hell breaks loose. Communication may be lost if the antenna was up the mast. Thrashing about in waves, with wires on the move, things get ugly. And that's before it hits someone, or knocks them overboard. Still, the master called his brother, mentioned survival, and it was a day later that they were reported. Missing are the two teenager boys.

Oh...another reason for the Spot...there's no radio reception towards the end of several channels and inlets around here.

jerryreliable said:

Still, the master called his brother, mentioned survival, and it was a day later that they were reported. Missing are the two teenager boys.

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He's not the first to think and say he has things under control when he doesn't. Same thing the first time they spoke to the El Faro Captain. We don't know what he said, but it didn't communicate to his brother to call the CG now.