Midnight Re-boarding, can you? Alone

BandB said:

Obviously not the first choice of ways to recover but we have practiced using the tender crane for lifting a person.

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Tender crane would be an excellent choice!

DPTrainor said:

Tender crane would be an excellent choice!

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Really difficult for one person to do, especially when crane is up on the boat deck. Inspired me to extend the length of the cord on the controller. Even then, just getting the hook onto the Life Sling in any kind of a seaway is a challenge.
With no practice at all (seemingly the "TF Way") odds of success are virtually nil.

caltexflanc said:

Really difficult for one person to do, especially when crane is up on the boat deck. Inspired me to extend the length of the cord on the controller. Even then, just getting the hook onto the Life Sling in any kind of a seaway is a challenge.
With no practice at all (seemingly the "TF Way") odds of success are virtually nil.

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That's why we practiced. Definitely not easy and hope we never need to do it that way. I've found part of preparation is developing knowledge and skills you hope to never need to use.

Very impressive. I've forgotten my swim ladder before and my wife admits she'd never be able to climb back into the boat without it. I'm in good shape and it is not an easy task without the ladder (I'd have to use a line and rub rails as steps).

I believe it is important for boaters to be in reasonably good physical condition to handle emergencies. I've seen some captains who likely couldn't swim 10 yards in the best of conditions!

A very important topic. When inspecting a vessel I often pose this question to an owner or buyer, regarding re-boarding. "You've fallen overboard at night, in cold water, fully clothed. Can you get back aboard easily, and without help?" Boat owners have died having fallen overboard in a marina. It's interesting how few boat owners, and more remarkably how few boat builders, consider this.

At the risk of sounding repetitive...there is an ABYC Standard that addresses reboarding. It says...

Means of unassisted reboarding shall be provided on all boats. The reboarding means shall be accessible to, and deployable by the person in the water.

41.10.1.1 The means of unassisted reboarding shall be described in the owner’s manual.

41.10.2
Reboarding ladders mounted on the stern of boats shall be installed as far as practicable from the propeller(s).

41.10.3
The top surface of the lowest step of a reboarding ladder, if installed to meet the requirement of H-41.10.1 shall be at least 22 inches (559 mm) below the waterline with the boat in the static floating position.

In my experience, even compliant ladders are not long or deep enough, 22 inches simply isn't generous enough for a fully clothed person to pull him or herself out of the water unless they are very physically fit.

Steve DAntonio said:

41.10.2
Reboarding ladders mounted on the stern of boats shall be installed as far as practicable from the propeller(s).

41.10.3
The top surface of the lowest step of a reboarding ladder, if installed to meet the requirement of H-41.10.1 shall be at least 22 inches (559 mm) below the waterline with the boat in the static floating position.

In my experience, even compliant ladders are not long or deep enough, 22 inches simply isn't generous enough for a fully clothed person to pull him or herself out of the water unless they are very physically fit.

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Those and other items are exactly why I built a while "in-the-water" deployable 6' tall SS ladder with broad steps and knotted pull-line for hand assistance to help get back aboard boat. Ladder is shown in its secured position at dock as we leave for weeks away from boat. Otherwise, I have ladder either in the water with knotted pull-line dangling off transom, or, ladder in upright position with small breakable bungee affixed to the eye in center of "h" in the word "The" on transom with knotted pull-line dangling.

Time and cost it took to build the ladder (out of two used SS ladders and steps and nuts/bolts and SS sleeves I purchased) as well as to install this swim/safety-system ladder means nothing in regard to maybe saving a life and consistently having easy to re board swimming joy... which we do multiple times every day of the summer we use our Tolly!

Estimate parts cost: Five hundred dollars. Estimated work hours: Full day.

Estimated swim-joy and potential lifesaving pay-back - PRICELESS!!

Happy Safety-Ladder Daze! - Art

Steve DAntonio said:

In my experience, even compliant ladders are not long or deep enough, 22 inches simply isn't generous enough for a fully clothed person to pull him or herself out of the water unless they are very physically fit.

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The biggest problem with most recently built boats is those who adhere to the 22 inches or no more and those that have reboarding ladders that in practice are not as accessible as in theory. What one is capable of doing when practicing in warm water is far different than overboard in cold water.

Plus many boats complicate the issue with tenders on the swim platform blocking the path to reboarding.

Still I think the key thing in most situations of an individual overboard in a boat not underway is the length of ladder. Change the 22" or 24" to 48" and it's easy to use.

There are also considerable drownings from the docks during winter. This is where I'd warn everyone here who goes to the docks to work or relax on their boat during the winter when no one with them. Docks may be slippery. You may be cold and have poorer balance. Or my just be lost in the moment. I've actually witnessed a man returning to his boat, walk straight down a ramp, not turn at the bottom and walk straight into the lake. Fortunately he was only in 4' of water when he landed and we were able to help him out. So, if you find yourself in the winter alone on or around the docks, I'd encourage wearing a flotation device. I'd also encourage checking the docks in advance to know how you would get out if you fell in.

River Rat said:

In regards to poor vision in salt water:

Don't forget your glasses probably fell off when you fell overboard...

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It gets tougher, now the man overboard is partially blind. Let`s add he struck his head falling and is at best semi conscious.
At least he won`t notice the pain from his #wrist. A prudent mariner would attach a lifeline before taking a midnight pee.

BandB said:

........
Plus many boats complicate the issue with tenders on the swim platform blocking the path to reboarding.

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This is a very pertinent point, and at the risk of boring folk, I'll repost how my boat is set up, because I have always felt where function is critical, especially when safety and ease of use is paramount, aesthetics needs to take a bit of a back seat. Note the pull out telescopic ladder attached under the step, easily reached from the water, and the bottom step is about 2 feet immersed when fully extended, slightly angled outwards, and it's a breeze to climb out.

I have noticed purely because of aesthetics, most boats that carry their tenders on the edge on the duckboard, (swim step to folk in N. A.), have them so they are centred in such a way that for most, deploying the ladder is not possible, even from the boat, and in perfect conditions, because of the point BandB just mentioned.

Here is how I solved that issue, and as my boat is only 3.5m (roughly 11') wide at the transom, I assume most boats could do likewise by just moving their davit system a tad east or west. There is no law graven in a tablet of stone anywhere that tenders must be centred on the stern. Ok, may not look as pretty, but where a life could be involved...aside from the sheer convenience of being able to bathe, and then board easily without deploying the tender...
See avatar pic as well. Oh, and no s**t about the colour of the dinghy please, she's 30 odd years old, and owes me nuss-ssing..!

At 6'1" tall a step 4' above my feet is difficult for me to negotiate while fully immersed, especially under duress. The ladder on my Whaler is about that shallow, and so I know this from direct experience.

caltexflanc said:

At 6'1" tall a step 4' above my feet is difficult for me to negotiate while fully immersed, especially under duress. The ladder on my Whaler is about that shallow, and so I know this from direct experience.

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Ah...you saying you can't pucker up, with arms braced on the swim step and while floating, raise your feet to a ladder rung 2 feet below the water surface George..?

I find it very easy, and I'm nearly 6' tall. 'course as our swim step is slatted we can get a good grip there to help lever, (otherwise Art's knotted rope hanging nearby is a good idea - we did that when we had an inferior type of ladder, I admit)...and I do have an Arnie S. sort of physique and all...

caltexflanc said:

At 6'1" tall a step 4' above my feet is difficult for me to negotiate while fully immersed, especially under duress. The ladder on my Whaler is about that shallow, and so I know this from direct experience.

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I almost see your point. The 2' immersed seemed a bit light to me as well. Now, I'm assuming a foot of your head and neck is above the water level so really about 3' below the ladder. Still sounds like a lot, but he talks about the angle of the ladder and the ease so maybe with Peter's ladder it's not as you and I imagine it. I would prefer a little more length of the ladder if possible.

Peter B said:

Ah...you saying you can't pucker up, with arms braced on the swim step and while floating, raise your feet to a ladder rung 2 feet below the water surface George..?

I find it very easy, and I'm nearly 6' tall. 'course as our swim step is slatted we can get a good grip there to help lever, (otherwise Art's knotted rope hanging nearby is a good idea - we did that when we had an inferior type of ladder, I admit)...and I do have an Arnie S. sort of physique and all...

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Well good on ya. Ever tried it dead worn out?

caltexflanc said:

Well good on ya. Ever tried it dead worn out?

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Ya know.... here's a little story; about getting out of the water onto a swim step with no ladder available at the time: Pretty well exhausted. In calm water during dusk. Water temp was cool but OK. No injury. Real good condition. 55 yrs. age.

BTW: This was not an emergency situation. Neither was it for any type of fun. But I felt approximately $300 worth of being compelled to do it!

Situation: My 6'2" 250 lb. weight lifter son decided to grab ahold the top of a railing stanchion just as the boat pulled back away from dock by a wind gust. He slipped slightly on the finger dock and ended up pulling all his weight against top of the stanchion at side entry slider of salon; therefore there was only one side of it with fixed railing and it was fastened by a 30 + yr old torpedo base with four bolts. Well...suffice it to say... a straw in a coffee frap drink is equally as rigid as that stanchion was after that feat of coordination.

Next day: I decided to unscrew the bolts and repair the stanchion's stability by refastening its torpedo shaped base. First I removed a panel inside salon. Then I stood on finger dock and reached into right front pocket to pull out an allen wrench. And, as I pulled it out - out flew my sterling silver money clip with approx. $300 firmly folded into its confines. With dropped jaw I watched it quickly flutter down into water and disappear.

So: I called my wife and asked her to come to the boat for safety reasons; as I was going to put on a mask and go diving in search of the $$$-clip. Linda arrived with big grin and I began to laugh too. She pushed/held boat away from finger dock and in I went. Must have dived in search of that clip fifteen + + times. Water was about eight feet deep so there was no problem holding breath for over a minute each dive down. Finally gave up as the bottom was super soft mud and no light to see. I figured the $$$-clip was a loss and anyway it may have fluttered way away from where I was searching with fingers and a close pronged rake.

Then came the fun of getting back aboard. I moved to transom and realized I'd not dropped a ladder that was tightly hooked up to the transom. I was as bit out of energy after spending well over half an hour diving, scraping a muddy bottom, and holding my breath quite long each time. I was also beginning to shiver, as the water was some what chilly.

Anyway... Linda was in the boat and I figured this should be no sweat to get onto swim platform without a ladder. So I stayed silent and tried to board. Upon third attempt I was able to haul my butt up and onto the swim platform that was about 14" above the water. Wherein I lay there for several moments feeling somewhat dizzy before I climbed back up the ladder that was between the platform and sun deck.

Therefore I say - WOW... if not well prepared once falling overboard, especially if adverse conditions are present... it would not be easy at all to survive.



PS: I then offered a friend who cleans boat bottoms $150 to locate the $$$ clip. He dived using a hookah and also came up empty handed. That stanchion became one of the most expensive items on the boat! - :lol:

911 Ladder

I want to thank Scott for his wisdom on this subject. I researched many off the shelf rebording ladders. Trying to find the appropriate one.

I was inspired by the mountain climbing ladders:

Black Diamond Etrier - Aiders & Etriers | Backcountry.com

Then I remembered that my son Jean-Sébastien gave me some mountain equipement strap with two safety hooks. Then I tried to make one using the KISS principle.

And I am satisfied of the results. A gift from my son could save a life (including mine).

Thank you Scott and JS!

A simple thing to do is just leave a rope on your swim platform that both ends are tied off. Just reach up to grab it and pull it off. Make the loop long enough for a foothold to boost yourself up by standing up with your foot on the loop. Of course not long enough to get fouled in your prop.

911 Ladder

Hello Folivier,

Thank you for the great suggestion for those who do have a swim platform.

Unfortunately, Pilgrim 40 do not have a swim platform as it has a fantail stern.

I do have a Starboard ladder and the inflatable dinghy tied most of the time. I do have a second Port rope ladder as a back-up.

Kindest regards, Normand

You could probably do similar just make the loop so that it hangs in the water at the right level. Then hopefully when you stand up you can reach high enough to pull yourself over the gunwale. I've used this a few times in a smaller boat.

I regularly just dive off for a swim.
Swim a couple thousand feet out and back and climb back on easily.
No boarding ladder.
Just grab the transom and pull myself in.
Really easy compared to doing 80 chin ups on my chin up bar i use a lot.
I try to stay in good shape.
I do yoga, karate, jog, have free weights I lift, skipping, surf, water ski, swim almost every day about 1 to 2 miles.
Just keep diving off and reboarding till its easy for you.
I'm not small or light either so have to lift my bulk back into the boat.
At 190 pounds its harder for me than my 110 pound daughter.
She has no problem, and very little to pull in.
But she is also only 65 inches tall, not 74 inches tall like me.

Hurrying Nowhere said:

I regularly just dive off for a swim.
Swim a couple thousand feet out and back and climb back on easily.
No boarding ladder.
Just grab the transom and pull myself in.
Really easy compared to doing 80 chin ups on my chin up bar i use a lot.
I try to stay in good shape.
I do yoga, karate, jog, have free weights I lift, skipping, surf, water ski, swim almost every day about 1 to 2 miles.
Just keep diving off and reboarding till its easy for you.
I'm not small or light either so have to lift my bulk back into the boat.
At 190 pounds its harder for me than my 110 pound daughter.
She has no problem, and very little to pull in.
But she is also only 65 inches tall, not 74 inches tall like me.

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Sounds great until.....you're experiencing pain....perhaps a cramp, perhaps an injury, perhaps your stomach....Evaluating getting back on the boat needs to not be done versus a healthy young or middle aged boater, but an injured or older or both boater, the least capable boater you'll see on your boat. The person in the water at midnight may have fallen in accidentally and have hit their head or broken their arm on the way.

BandB said:

Sounds great until.....you're experiencing pain....perhaps a cramp, perhaps an injury, perhaps your stomach....Evaluating getting back on the boat needs to not be done versus a healthy young or middle aged boater, but an injured or older or both boater, the least capable boater you'll see on your boat. The person in the water at midnight may have fallen in accidentally and have hit their head or broken their arm on the way.

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All very valid points.
But if someone was older in bad shape they are not allowed on board my boat unless wearing a life jacket.
My neighbor likes going with me out in the boat.
But she is overweight and doesn't take care of herself and sucks at swimming.
So life jacket is on before she climbs in, and stays on until after she is back on land.
My daughter who is an extremely strong swimmer and fit when she was wanting to stop wearing a life jacket when she was about 10 ish.
I had a good friend drive incase i had to dive off and rescue her.
But she didn't know what was coming.
On her first trip out without a life jacket i grabbed her without warning and threw her off the boat at about 25 mph to see how she reacted.
She just dog paddled calmly till we circled back to get her.
I said okay then you don't have to always wear it since you passed my test.
I really don't think if you're not capable and fit and can swim a mile or more that anyone should be on a boat unless in a life jacket.
Even just wear an inflatable.
I intentionally dive off regardless if the waves are 3 or 4 footers or the water is cold.
I did fall of once by accident and it was nothing to me.
I was laughing when i popped up.
Water people generally like water and would be diving in for swims regularly I assumed.
I love water and a day without swimming sucks IMO.

And rhe earlier comments by some back a page or 2...salt water doesn't burn my eyes or leave me blind.
Now a chlorine filled pool is another topic entirely.
That burns like crap and gives me blood shot eyes.

You are able to do what you want...but just to bust your chops....


Water survival is not about long distance swimming...in fact foolish in most cases/ boat emergencies to try to swim in open water for more than a couple hundred yards. If not familiar with the waters you could be fighting and losing to a current....then close to exhaustion and hypothermia with nothing gained.


Overweight people are usually more buoyant and less susceptible to hypothermia. If you and your daughter are in fantastic shape, I recommend gumby suits for you...your neighbor might be just fine...


And you threw a 10 year old off a boat at 25 mph?

psneeld said:

You are able to do what you want...but just to bust your chops....


Water survival is not about long distance swimming..


And you threw a 10 year old off a boat at 25 mph?

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I read that too and hardly know how to respond. But I personally consider that terribly irresponsible. Honestly, throwing anyone off a boat is. We don't even allow throwing people into our pool.

Now back to the subject. The life jacket is fine, but it doesn't get them back into the boat, which is the topic. A lot of us have found getting back into our boats to be far more difficult than we really thought of it.

At midnight you should be asleep on board or within an enclosed pilothouse.

markpierce said:

At midnight you should be asleep on board or within an enclosed pilothouse.

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I think it's an assumption people shouldn't be falling in too. Sometimes people do other than as they should.

Now the ones I've seen and worried about are those returning at 2 AM to either an anchored or docked boat. They are often inebriated and I've seen a couple of them land in the water.

I think (or hope) the story of a father throwing his 10 year old daughter ,without warning or life jacket, off a boat travelling at 25mph,was invented to illustrate a point or gain notoriety.
"There are old sailors,and bold sailors, but there are no old bold sailors".

There was a time when I could climb back aboard my sailboat without assistance should the need arise. I was younger, fitter, and lighter back then. I was also a lot more stupid. As others have mentioned, most of the time and most of the year in our waters a fit, healthy person won't be able to climb out of the water unaided after 30-60 minutes in the water.

Now, I am fat and weak. There is no way I could climb back aboard my dinghy unassisted. Fortunately, the PO of my boat was very safety conscious. The NP43 has a very nice integrated swim ladder in the aft swim step. I can be deployed from the water. Since he always carried his dinghy on Weavery-type davits, it was usually blocked. He then had another swim ladder installed on the underside of the port side of the swim step. It also can be deployed from the water.

Even with this, he had a Lifesling on the rail at all times as well as a block and tackle at the ready on the boat deck rail. The idea was that he or his wife could easily hoist the other with the Lifesling and that block and tackle. The block and tackle sat out on the boat deck rail for 5 years and was never used, but it was always ready. I removed it when I bought the boat, but at some point I just might replace it.

Any method that gets you back aboard is great, be it a rigid ladder, web steps, low swim step or what ever. Just be sure you try it a couple times to be sure you can do it. I'm way too old and fat to pull my self out alone, but I have a MOB method that my wife can use with one finger that will pull me back aboard quickly. Folks worry about hypothermia, but the truth is after as little as 30 minutes in cold water, you can drown first due to loss of motor control if you don't have a life jacket or can get your self out quickly.

Hurrying Nowhere said:

My daughter who is an extremely strong swimmer and fit when she was wanting to stop wearing a life jacket when she was about 10 ish.
I had a good friend drive incase i had to dive off and rescue her.
But she didn't know what was coming.
On her first trip out without a life jacket i grabbed her without warning and threw her off the boat at about 25 mph to see how she reacted.
She just dog paddled calmly till we circled back to get her.
I said okay then you don't have to always wear it since you passed my test.

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I understand what you say... I just do not understand why you do not realize the incorrectness/danger of this technique. Think it through. There are so many accidental items that could have occurred due to sooo many reasons. What you did sounds like a fun kick - till your daughter is dead - by having her neck snapped from hitting a semi submerged flotsam at 25 mph.