Repower Options

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Irish Rambler said:
Hi,
Remwines, did you by any chance 'race balance' the Cummins, I've done a couple and it makes a great job in a marine engine.
Well done, the engine looks really sweet.
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No, it has the stock dampener and I didn't do anything to the rotating assembly. Are you talking about balancing as you would do to a gas racing engine?

I ran the engine that varying rpm's for 1.5 hours on the stand. It seems to run fairly smooth at all speeds and I didn't have to chase it around the shop. It's going in a full displacement trawler and will be ran at 1800 to 1900 rpm 95% of the time.
 
Hi remwines,
Yes if it gets the full race balance tuning it certainly runs sweeter and there's a noticeable difference in smoothness = less vibration, noise.
You certainly have it looking well, congratulations.
 
The Cummins 6B is a naturally very smooth running engine.
 
We use them in the family business to drive pumps and blowers and they're smoother and a tad sharper when they're race balanced.
 
They're ok, but smooth would not be a word I would use in there description. Thats the reason Chrysler changed the motor mounts in the second gen Dodge trucks to a large soft encapsulated design. The first gen trucks shook like a dog $hittin a peach seed. The high RPM balance for racing/pulling is mostly to keep the engine together beyond 4000 rpm, and really does make it smooth at low RPMs. But its expensive and takes a lot of Mallory metal. I cant imagine it would be anything that a boat owner would want to do, that and the miriad of other things required to make it work. But, if you're looking for a 750 HP 6BTA, it can be done. I can see it now Trawler racing, kinda like Lobsta boat racin only slower.
 
I may have one or race engine left in me, but it won't be for this boat. Normally only need 50 to 60 hp. With 750 hp I could plow a deep troth.
 
Repower the "KOKANEE"

remwines said:
I have ’79 DeFever Down East 40 with the original single Ford SSD 655M engine. The engine runs fine, smooth and starts quickly, but it is a very obscure and obsolete engine. I have run across only one boat shop that has even heard of this engine. It is the same engine as the Iveco Aifo 8061.04*05G made by Fiat, just marketed by Ford in the USA in the late 70's. Parts are nearly impossible to find today.

I keep the boat in the SF Bay area and if I were going to just cruise locally, I would probably leave that engine in place. But I plan on running it up to the Puget Sound for a couple of seasons, and making the inside passage to Alaska at least one time is on my bucket list. I just do not have enough confidence that this engine will make the trip. So my obvious question is; what are the smartest repower options. I can have a new modern engine dropped in, but I also have the shop and skills to rebuild a take-out marine engine. Here’s some of the current specs on the boat.
• DE 40: (same hull as DeFever Passagemaker), 30,000 lbs full displacement
• Engine: Ford SSD 655M, Inline 6, 117hp, 2300 RPM full throttle
• 6.9 knots @ 1900 RPM
• BW transmission (don’t know gear ratio, will check)
• 25x19 three blade prop
I am shooting for the same or a bit more speed. I have been reading posts from the Trawler Forum and DeFever Cruiser Forum. Cummins BT6 and John Deere variants’ seen to be popular. I like simple, so I am somewhat concerned with newer electronically controlled and turbo engines. They may increase efficiency and performance, but in my mind they have more things to fail. I’d hate to be stuck in a British Columbia fiord with a failed electronic engine component.

It will be a couple of years before I make the Alaska trip, so I am in no particular rush to repower. But getting it done sooner will allow more time for me to shake out the bugs. Any opinions or personal experiences will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Bob Mills
Click to expand...
A good engine would be the Propulsion engine:3026 from Caterpilar,
its a NA engine 125hp at 2500 rpm. (almost same engine as the 6 cyl.
6 litre.= 354 cu.inc. Perkins.)
- wellproven and ease of maintaining.!

Also a good + when resale..
 
Iveco Aifo 8061.04*05G made by Fiat

Iveco is still made by Fiat If you can find a spec sheet you might find a current engine that has the same footprint.

You may also find an older engine from a similar series that could be purchased rebuilt

More speed in a displacement boat usually takes massive power.

OK if the fuel burn doubles with EACH extra knot of speed?
 
FF said:
Iveco Aifo 8061.04*05G made by Fiat

Iveco is still made by Fiat If you can find a spec sheet you might find a current engine that has the same footprint.

You may also find an older engine from a similar series that could be purchased rebuilt

More speed in a displacement boat usually takes massive power.

OK if the fuel burn doubles with EACH extra knot of speed?
Click to expand...

I saw one of these at the boat show a few years ago. Brand spanking new with all of the accessories for $11k. I thought it was a pretty damn good deal.
 
Baker said:
I saw one of these at the boat show a few years ago. Brand spanking new with all of the accessories for $11k. I thought it was a pretty damn good deal.
Click to expand...

Italian people are lovely; my step father was from NE Italy.

Have you heard of this saying...

Styled in Italy, built in Germany, and finished in English connely leather.

Dont get the order of that sentence mixed up.:D
 
WHAT?

You don't like LUCAS "Prince of Darkness electric stuff?
 
FF said:
WHAT?

You don't like LUCAS "Prince of Darkness electric stuff?
Click to expand...

Your discription of lucas is frightingly accurate; the wiring in my dads Jag used to go wrong every couple of weeks without fail.

Nightmare ....:ermm:
 
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I have a NOS bottle of this if anyone need to refill.
 

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Lay off Lucas. They invented the self dimming headlights and intermittent windshield wipers, by accident of course.
 
bayview said:
Lay off Lucas. They invented the self dimming headlights and intermittent windshield wipers, by accident of course.
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Lol!

I've got a little Chinese monkey bike on the boat and memories of British wiring have come flooding back...

Ignition key flooded with rainwater , shorted out after 3 months; had to wire across it.
Insulation is as soft as butter; had to tape joints with insulating tape to stop shorting.
Indicator lights keep on blowing with the vibration.

.....and to cap it all, if the engine stalls at night time all the lights switch off even with a fully charged battery; can you believe it?

Actually maybe Lucas wasn't that bad! :whistling:
 
Good engine to run after one of those pesky North Korean emp strikes
 
Here's another vote for a Cummins 6BT210.... cannot go wrong. Relatively inexpensive & easily owner maintained, super reliable.
 
Something tells me this passion for Cummins could be misplaced. Misplaced in that I'm sure there are at least several other brands that are as good. Looks kinda like a bandwagon thing to me but they are good engines. Volvo's have the parts problem but what about all the rest?
I'm think'in that in a competitive market there should be many competitive products. Honda's and Toyota's are good cars but how many of us own other brands and are very satisfied w them? We have one VW and have had several others and have'nt had any problems that I can remember. I read or hear the Korean cars are comparable to Japanese cars now.
This thread .. no this forum makes it sound like one would be stupid to buy anything but a Cummins. Just seems to me like this Cummins mania may be somewhat subjective and over rated. There must be other excellent choices.
 
I took my Triumph in for service once and there was a cartoon on the wall that was captioned: "If you like warm beer buy a Lucas refrigerator".
 
seasalt007 said:
I took my Triumph in for service once and there was a cartoon on the wall that was captioned: "If you like warm beer buy a Lucas refrigerator".
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In the late '60s my brother and I were fans of Triumph motorcycles, with their Lucas electrics and zener diode voltage regulators. We always had a zener and couple spare headlight bulbs in the drawer.
Lucas was called 'the Prince of Darkness' in those days. :D

Great machines, those old Triumphs.
 
"Misplaced in that I'm sure there are at least several other brands "

The hassle is many trawlers run 2 -4 gph at cruise .

That's perhaps 30 -60- even 80 with a modern electric injection unit with computer for timing.

Mostly the auto diesels would be a source , but most auto engines are not up to marine power demands.

Up a hill for 10 min , no problem , 30-75 hp for 12 hours , could be a big problem.

To boost reported fuel mileage the common solution is a small engine with a big turbo.

This loads the engine quire well for hill climbing and reduces the load on the flats.

Passing is a delight as the torque from the turbo is large at low RPM, so perhaps no downshifting.

Most of the real truck engines are far larger than what is required .

My choice the Intl DT 360 or DT 466 is usually larger than folks need.

Cheap at junk yards as the most common service is Skool Bus , and the engines are never in demand for replacement , as Unkle pays 90% of the bus cost.

Of course a good over sized engine , set up with a cruise prop and an EGT gauge might be the best choice as cruising at good speed might be done at 1200RPM or so.

For most even 1500 is fairly quiet.

Sorta like Gardner does.
 
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I think a big part of the Cummins having favor is the availability of parts and know-how. Can't say the same for my Perkins.
 
Parts and service are excellent for my Klassen/Mitsubishi.
Actually I haven't needed any (except oil filters) but the support is there.
But they (now Yukon Power Systems) are there w Hatton Marine in Seattle.

But these guys usually don't cater to pleasure boats. They used to go to the boat shows but hated it probably because of all the arrogance and stupid questions. Perhaps others that do deal w the pleasure boat business engine sources will comment.
 
Aside from diesels: Speaking of low initial/maintenance/replacement costs, an efficient power source, and overall EZ to deal with engines... I recently had six (6) "classic" 350 cid Chevy gassers (from 1977 to 1991 mfg dates). Five in boats; one in a truck. Now I have three. Two in a boat and one in truck. Every once in a great while I need new alternator; very occasionally a new starter. Had one carburetor rebuilt in decades. Other than that... oil change on schedule and a quick tune up every few years.

Treated correctly (and not jumped-up (altered) into a foolishly high HP range) carbureted, classic 350 Chevy gassers last for many thousand hours use in boats and hundreds of thousand miles in vehicles. :thumb:

Nearly all parts at your nearest auto store. If needed/desired... Mechanics are everywhere.

Just that simple! :D
 
It's not that the Cummins is the best engine, it is just a "pretty good" engine. What tips the balance compared to other brands is that the Cummins 6B is EVERYWHERE, parts are reasonable, parts are easily available, and lots of folks know how to fix them.

The 6B210 has super noisy timing gears, the CAV pump is crude and sloppy, and the engine is not super efficient. But for making 40-60hp at cruise, it is the best thing going when all factors are considered.
 
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