Stuck at Dock-fuel filter problem?

RickyB said:

I had Michigan Cat come out to Grand Haven, MI & he looked at old Racor that I just pulled, both of them, & he said they looked good. We took Michigan Cat guy for test run for 15 minuts & fine as wine. Brought him back, topped of fuel & took off. Then after about 45 mins of running the port engine started slowing down & stopped. Reatarted & run it slow to Muskegon. Pulled Racor primaries to look at & they were perfectly new looking. Can't seem to find any diesel mechanic to look at soon.

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You had one Perkins secondary filter on board. Did you change that onto the port engine before running?

-Chris

hello something i use to do when i drove truck was when changing out fuel filters i would fill the fuel filter holder up with lucas fuel treatment no diesel fuel it is thick cleans out the injectors real good like giving a diesel a tune up this was in a 60 series detroit just my two cents worth

RickyB said:

I had Michigan Cat come out to Grand Haven, MI & he looked at old Racor that I just pulled, both of them, & he said they looked good. We took Michigan Cat guy for test run for 15 minuts & fine as wine. Brought him back, topped of fuel & took off. Then after about 45 mins of running the port engine started slowing down & stopped. Reatarted & run it slow to Muskegon. Pulled Racor primaries to look at & they were perfectly new looking. Can't seem to find any diesel mechanic to look at soon.

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The fuel filters may have been a rabbit trail then. However, did you ever change out the secondary, on-engine fuel filters on that port engine?

The symptoms still sound like a fuel issue. If not clogged filters, I am not sure what else. I'd be curious to know if the port engine runs fine when cold.

Secondaries can and do clog, I think mostly due to long sitting time and if fuel has high moisture content. Not necessarily liquid water, but moisture suspended. Had a few that had verified high restriction, opened up, no liquid water, media looked normal, but a new filter absolutely fixed the issue. So in any fuel starvation issue, good first step is get new elements in. Still got an issue, time to dig in farther.

Ski in NC said:

Secondaries can and do clog, I think mostly due to long sitting time and if fuel has high moisture content. Not necessarily liquid water, but moisture suspended. Had a few that had verified high restriction, opened up, no liquid water, media looked normal, but a new filter absolutely fixed the issue. So in any fuel starvation issue, good first step is get new elements in. Still got an issue, time to dig in farther.

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If I recall Ski, it may have been you that suggested to change out the primary filters first, then change out the secondary filter after running for a bit. The idea being that any crud that escapes during the filter change on the primaries would be caught by the secondary after some actual boat use, then change out the secondary so they are completely clean.

I have a single engine (Perkins) and two Racor filters plus one on the engine which I am afraid to touch as yet. PO used 30 mic. in both Racors. Would it make sense, when replacing, to install one 30 and one 10 microns or maybe both 10 or 2x30 makes the most sense?
I am a new owner and trying to learn.

Janusz said:

I have a single engine (Perkins) and two Racor filters plus one on the engine which I am afraid to touch as yet. PO used 30 mic. in both Racors. Would it make sense, when replacing, to install one 30 and one 10 microns or maybe both 10 or 2x30 makes the most sense?
I am a new owner and trying to learn.

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I'd install a 30 then a 10 if the filter bodies are inline with each other.

Next time open the fuel fill on the tank and see if that corrects the problem. (clogged vents)
You could also have a rubber fuel line collapsing internally. This happened to me on my maiden delivery voyage several years ago.

Ski in NC said:

Found this via Google: See the Caterpillar equivalent at bottom.



FST-32178 FILTER-Fuel(Collar Lock)-5 Micron

Shopping Basket | Checkout​

Larger image< a href="http://www.inlinefilters.co.uk/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=14401" target="_blank"><img src="bmz_cache/0/010cf636d32194aad27f912be69c491b.image.203x200.jpg" alt="FST-32178 FILTER-Fuel(Collar Lock)-5 Micron" title=" FST-32178 FILTER-Fuel(Collar Lock)-5 Micron " width="203" height="200" /><br /><span class="imgLink">Larger image</span></a>

ORDER HERE
Price(Ex Vat): £27.55


Quantity to Add:

​

Part Number FST-32178



​

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION: SPECIFICATIONS:
FILTER-Fuel(Collar Lock)-5 Micron. Fuel/Water Separator, FM 100, Secondary, 5 Micron, 4.3in, Marine.

DIMENSIONS:
Height: 110mm
OD/Width Max: 83mm
OD/Width Min: 69mm
ID/Depth Max: 16mm

EQUIVALENTS:
Caterpillar 2053043, 2053043SABRE, In-Line Filters FST32178, FST-32178, Mann WK8116, Mercury Mercruiser 35807256, Perkins 35412, 35412SABRE, 35413, Quicksilver 035807256, Stanadyne 32065, 32178, 35242, 35244, VME 35312018F

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Caterpillar 159-6102
GMC 12554082;
John Deere RE52987, RE53400, RE62419, RE509031
baldwin bf7674-d

Janusz said:

I have a single engine (Perkins) and two Racor filters plus one on the engine which I am afraid to touch as yet. PO used 30 mic. in both Racors. Would it make sense, when replacing, to install one 30 and one 10 microns or maybe both 10 or 2x30 makes the most sense?
I am a new owner and trying to learn.

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Try and find the manual for your engine and see what Perkins recommends for your primary fuel filters. Most likely your Racors are not in series but are setup parallel so you can run one or the other, or both simultaneously. Chances are the PO had the right filters in there. I would replace those with the 30 micron filters until you can find a manual.

I have a Perkins 4.236. Each tank has a 30 micron primary. Which both feed a 2 micron secondary. There is also another 2 micron secondary on the block.

Also change the on-engine filters when you change the Racor to eliminate filtering as an issue. Had a similar new to me boat problem, Racors were dirty but not filthy. On-engine filters were nasty.

Return line from the injector pump clogged? Can you confirm that both engines are dropping RPMs? Interested in what you find out.

Older diesel mechanic came out yesterday & completely removed/ bypass Flo Scan system because whoever installed it did poor job. He was thinking air leaks. Went out on sea trials with him h ran fine.
We left Muskegon this morn & after about 3 hrs running the port engine started acting up again. Slowed down & finally shut it down 30 mins & started up to dock in Manistee. ?? The mechanic's returning to us here. I'm about to go crazy.

RickyB said:

Older diesel mechanic came out yesterday & completely removed/ bypass Flo Scan system because whoever installed it did poor job. He was thinking air leaks. Went out on sea trials with him h ran fine.
We left Muskegon this morn & after about 3 hrs running the port engine started acting up again. Slowed down & finally shut it down 30 mins & started up to dock in Manistee. ?? The mechanic's returning to us here. I'm about to go crazy.

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cat sells clear sight tube for t/s air in the fuel. if you can get your hands on one it would rule it out pretty fast. other things to check would be fuel transfer pump failing and double check the racors lids. i have seen a few guys get the lift tabs stuck under the lid seal.

When I installed my Floscan system they were very insistent about greasing the seals on the Racors. I didn't think it mattered but was getting some really crazy readings on the port engine. next time I changed the Racors I did grease the seals and the readings are now rock steady. Never seemed to bother the FL but there was apparently air getting into the system.

It's either air getting in, as in a really small air leak that takes time to accumulate enough air that the engine can't suck OR something clogging the filters after that time so no fuel is getting in.

Do you have dual racors? can you switch from one to the other while running?

With my racors on the Lehman, if I do not refill the filter housing to overflow, it has too much air.

Good luck and buy filters by the case.

RickyB said:

We left Muskegon this morn & after about 3 hrs running the port engine started acting up again. Slowed down & finally shut it down 30 mins & started up to dock in Manistee. ?? The mechanic's returning to us here. I'm about to go crazy.

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had similar symptoms once, even with new, clean filters. Turns out there was a clog in my tank pick-up tube, likely at the lower screen. A little shot of compressed air from the distribution valve back to the tank cleared it and has been good since..

I diagnosed it by switching tanks and finding the other feeding just fine..

156-1824 is glass and metal. cost is just over 200.
2P-8278 is clear plastic and costs about 40.

RickyB said:

We left Muskegon this morn & after about 3 hrs running the port engine started acting up again. Slowed down & finally shut it down 30 mins & started up to dock in Manistee. ?? The mechanic's returning to us here. I'm about to go crazy.

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I am really sorry about the frustration, I know the feeling. Just know that it will get sorted out eventually and when it does you will have received an education on your boats systems.

At least that is what I tell myself when stuff like this happens.

Ricky- Did you change the secondary on the afflicted engine?

Thank you for that info. It sounds like a smart idea. That might be why I've heard people says that Racor have a tendency to leak air. Who knows?

Thank you. My concern/ worry now is that my friend, an 18 yr old captain graduate has limited time to finish the trip to Detroit. I don't feel confident enough to do it by myself. It just gets worse.

I went online & ordered 6 secondary fuel filters. The engines only have I each. That will be changed if this boat ever gets to Detroit. The mobile fuel polIshing guy will be here Monday about noon. I would appreciate any links to home made polishers. I here there's many different ones people make. The Mechanic thinks there's stuff in tank that's blocking tube after they run a bit.

"cat sells clear sight tube for t/s air in the fuel. if you can get your hands on one it would rule it out pretty fast.cat sells clear sight tube for t/s air in the fuel. if you can get your hands on one it would rule it out pretty fast."

Any refrigeration supply will have brass armored sight glass that will show bubbles in the fuel supply,

They can be had with a male and female on either side so are a snap to install.

I would rig a 6 gal fuel tank with a hand bulb to quickly install close to the engine.

This would help deciding if its a fuel feed problem , or an internal engine (injection pump?) problem.


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Dockside I would install the OB tank close to the fuel tank, and keep it pumprd and use paper ties at every fitting.

IF fuel can get out probably air can get in.

My big concern is why it takes 3 hours to have a problem.

ranger42c said:

You had one Perkins secondary filter on board. Did you change that onto the port engine before running?

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Ski in NC said:

Ricky- Did you change the secondary on the afflicted engine?

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RickyB said:

I went online & ordered 6 secondary fuel filters. The engines only have I each. That will be changed if this boat ever gets to Detroit.

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I can't tell if this means that secondary filter has or has not been changed yet.... but if not, seems like not much use trying to further diagnose the issue until that change has happened.

Otherwise, it's just a scattergun approach to troubleshooting...

-Chris

RickyB, sorry again for the headaches.

You need to find out what the problem is before you do a lot of expensive stuff.

If you have dirty fuel, then you Racors should be clogging up. If the bowls don't have water and the filters aren't too dirty, then it isn't dirty fuel. If it was me, I would run my Racors parallel and when the rpms start to drop would switch to the other Racor to see if that fixes the problem. I would also get one of these to put on the Racor that is the first to be used. It will tell you if your primary filter is clogging and it is relatively cheap and it is simple to just screw into the top of your Racor.
T-handle vacuum gauge


If you have dirty tanks then cleaning the tanks and polishing the fuel will help solve the problem. Once that is done, then you shouldnt need to worry about any type of on board polishing system.

I am sorry to be confused, but I am still not clear if the on engine secondary filters were changed.

Does your Racor look like this?

The T-handle vacuum gauge is a good idea, but you may have to cut off 2 threads to make it fit your 500 series Racors. It's designed for the other models.

Adelaide said:

Does your Racor look like this? View attachment 52994

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Asphaltine....I'm familiar with that!



Luckily I had a BIG filter upstream that caught most of the junk. Boat still ran great even with filters looking like that...This was how it was when I bought it (300 hours on the filters, but maybe 6 years). Changed all the filters and used a chemical additive to break up the Asphaltine. I suspect this is what clogged my intake tube but that didn't happen till well after the filter changes. Asphaltine was still being dispersed when that happened.