Flag Etiquette/Rules

Wear the flag on your uniform arm into combat and/or for a career and usually it is pretty clear which traditions can be tweaked and those that cant.

Sure different singers have their own twist...but the National Anthem was not ment to be done in pop, rap, country, rock (though Jimmy Hendrix did give it a decent go), etc......

Let someone sing it...and watch the generations of Veterans standing at attention.....if there are tears....thumbs up...if they are shaking their heads....probably the singer should have a serious discussion with them.

psneeld said:

Wear the flag on your uniform arm into combat and/or for a career and usually it is pretty clear which traditions can be tweaked and those that cant.

Sure different singers have their own twist...but the National Anthem was not ment to be done in pop, rap, country, rock (though Jimmy Hendrix did give it a decent go), etc......

Let someone sing it...and watch the generations of Veterans standing at attention.....if there are tears....thumbs up...if they are shaking their heads....probably the singer should have a serious discussion with them.

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Wifey B: So you guys don't think psneeld is crazy, I posted and then deleted a rant and it's that he's responding to. I was ranting about Latoya London's National Anthem for the Warriors-Thunder game. I'm a free thinker, but not for this. I just don't like it.

I don't like the way the game is going so far either.

BandB said:

Wifey B: So you guys don't think psneeld is crazy, I posted and then deleted a rant and it's that he's responding to. I was ranting about Latoya London's National Anthem for the Warriors-Thunder game. I'm a free thinker, but not for this. I just don't like it.



I don't like the way the game is going so far either.

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I don't watch basketball but we have house guests and they put the game on in the TV room right on our main floor. I heard that "anthem" and my respect for basketball slid enormously. I wanted the Sonics back in Seattle, now I'll fight to keep that crap away.


Keith

refugio said:

I don't watch basketball but we have house guests and they put the game on in the TV room right on our main floor. I heard that "anthem" and my respect for basketball slid enormously. I wanted the Sonics back in Seattle, now I'll fight to keep that crap away.


Keith

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Wifey B: You can't blame that on basketball. It's a Broadway performer showing off or thinking that's the way she should sing it. All sports have had their share of strange National Anthem performances. Now, still doesn't mean you're getting your Sonics back. Well, they're sort of still around, down after three to the Warriors. We have to root for Curry. And to be honest as much as I disliked it, the reaction I've seen on the web has been nearly 50/50. Half say she killed it, half say it was horrible. No one in the middle.

Just be thankful you can't see her crotch in this video!

Kinda makes you wonder why people will risk their lives to protect the freedoms of some who can't seem to respect snything..... at least the crowd agreed...

"1. The national flag at the stern of your boat should be one inch long
for every foot of overall vessel length rounded up to a normally
available size."

Great rule , the bigger the better , BUT it should not drag in the water if stern pole mounted.

Part 2 from Active Captain


>>> The Flag Advisor - 2 >>>

A few weeks ago we did a newsletter segment documenting some of the
rules regarding flying flags on recreational vessels which was
unexpectedly well received. Many of us like to fly flags and appreciate
knowing some of the traditions surrounding them. Please remember that
unlike military and commercial vessels, the rules surrounding personal
yachts are not well defined. We'll research a topic and provide some of
the most agreed-upon rules. Eventually, we'll make a single guide to
reference all flag information in one place.

The subject today is burgees. These are flags often associated with a
yacht club but can represent any association. Related to burgee flags
are house flags. These are individual flags custom made for a particular
boat representing a personal interest, hobby, or something about the
owner. Burgees are usually triangular or swallow-tail. House flags are
usually swallow-tail.

On power boats, burgees and house flags should be flown on a bow staff.
There is some conflict about sailboat flying location. For single masted
boats, they should be flown from a bow staff. But some references
suggest that sailboats can fly burgees and house flags at the truck
(top) of the mast, on a pigstick above the truck, or from a spreader
halyard, generally the starboard one. When flying a burgee from a
halyard, only one flag should be present on a halyard.

Again, these are suggested protocols. There are no rules and no one is
going to give you a ticket for having 4 club burgees on a halyard. But
there is a certain tradition to being on the water and it's not a bad
thing to respect that tradition.

One thing we get asked often is, why don't we create an Active Captain
burgee? It would complement the hats we provide as you accumulate points
by writing reviews, updating markers, and adding new markers.

We don't believe we should be making a burgee to hang on your boat.
Instead, we should be providing you with the ability to have electronic
burgees - ones that show your location and movement. Keep your flags for
the formal organizations you belong to. We'll continue to enhance the
electronic boat card capability to give you an electronic identity that
others can see when nearby, perhaps even a few miles away.

I fly my yacht club burgee on the bow, National Ensign aft, Racing association burgee on the radar arch, Blue Gavel burgee port side of fly bridge, staff commodore burgee starboard side of fly bridge. I only fly all of them on our yacht club opening day, as the flappin' gets annoyin' when under way.

Wifey B: Etiquette: Conventional requirements as to social behavior; proprieties of conduct as established in any class or community or for any occasion. Prescribed or accepted code of usage in matters of ceremony.

Etiquette: Rules that stuck up people pull out of their a..es when they want to put other people down.

This probably doesn't come as a great shock that in general I'm not a great fan of etiquette. I don't care how anyone dresses and I'm not big on titles and sure don't want to be called Dr. and just formality.

Now, in this particular area of flags, where there are laws, we follow them. I accept the national flag on the stern. I accept quarantine flags and country flags you're visiting. But all the other ones, I could care less who flies them where or how. And I'm not going to get uptight because someone doesn't take a flag down at night or have it up in the morning.

I just get scared that sometimes people might cross the line between the two definitions of etiquette I offered. Not saying it's all bad, just don't get uptight if someone is breaching some minor part of it. It's like the kid making their bed. Reward them with praise for trying. Don't rip them over not having hospital corners. Trying to think the last time I personally made a bed other than when putting new sheets on it. Maybe 2004. After all, we are getting back in it later.

Ok, not reacting to comments in the thread, just to the title and the use of the word "Etiquette." Be careful. Can be good or dangerous word.

Wifey B: What's it mean when someone has a bikini hanging on a flag pole?

Etiquette can also be for people in circles where hard earned respect follows those lines of customs, courtesies and etiquette....not necessarily for "stuck up" people.

Be present in that group and not follow them could be in bad taste....I am not saying that everyone has to follow them....but they aren't always for everyone and in certain circles, follow them or politely remove yourself...or better yet which many don't get.....dont put yourself in the awkward position of following your beliefs to the disdain of the gathered group.

psneeld said:

following your beliefs to the disdain of the gathered group.

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Wifey B: Disdain of gathered groups doesn't really much bother me. I try to not cause others undue discomfort. Sometimes they need shaking up though.

If it's something like the flag of the country, I'll show them respect. On the other hand if they are bothered by me kissing my hubby in public then tough luck.

BandB said:

This probably doesn't come as a great shock that in general I'm not a great fan of etiquette. I don't care how anyone dresses and I'm not big on titles and sure don't want to be called Dr. and just formality.

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So when/if you use a knife and fork, do you cut with the knife pinning your food by holding the fork in a straight vertical position, until you have cut all of your food up into manageable pieces, then put the knife down and switch hands with the fork, before proceeding to eat, never touching the knife again?

menzies said:

So when/if you use a knife and fork, do you cut with the knife pinning your food by holding the fork in a straight vertical position, until you have cut all of your food up into manageable pieces, then put the knife down and switch hands with the fork, before proceeding to eat, never touching the knife again?

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Wifey B: No, my table manners are impeccable. Well, except.....we share food a lot so I'll take some of his and give him some of mine. Eating out we normally order two dishes with each of us to eat half of each.

We don't do five star white linen stuff at home or on the boat. And if someone at our table did as you describe we'd never make them feel uncomfortable. We're very tolerant of stuff like that. How one handles their knife and fork doesn't change in my mind the person they are. I would never put someone down because of how they handled their fork and knife.

Oh, I don't eat spaghetti properly and I don't use chopsticks.

I'm not saying etiquette has no place. I'm just saying don't get carried away with form over substance.

I think in this case etiquette equals tradition here, just saying. Doesn't mean you are stuck up. I have the U.S. Flag on the stern, Alaska State flag on the sun deck, Canadian flag on bow and just behind it I have two yacht club burgees.


I'm not stuck up.....really ask other TF members I have met....

Bein' from New York City originally, I use for chopsticks as it is considered gauche to use anything else when eating Chinese/Japanese food.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

I think in this case etiquette equals tradition here, just saying. Doesn't mean you are stuck up. I have the U.S. Flag on the stern, Alaska State flag on the sun deck, Canadian flag on bow and just behind it I have two yacht club burgees.


I'm not stuck up.....really ask other TF members I have met....

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Wifey B: I wasn't implying anyone here was stuck up. The second example was an extreme example.

So, if someone else had the US flag where it is, but had the others arranged differently, would you put them down?

ancora said:

Bein' from New York City originally, I use for chopsticks as it is considered gauche to use anything else when eating Chinese/Japanese food.

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Wifey B: So, how do you look upon someone who asks for silverware instead? That's the test, not whether you follow what you feel to be the etiquette yourself.

Is politely correcting "putting down"?

Then if they laugh at you and say stuff your stuffy traditions....then what do you say?

psneeld said:

Is politely correcting "putting down"?

Then if they laugh at you and say stuff your stuffy traditions....then what do you say?

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Wifey B: As to correcting on the flags, I'd say none of your business unless they ask or question.

Now if they laugh at you and tell you to put your traditions where the sun doesn't shine then they're far worse than you. Your intent was good. Theirs wasn't.

And if you laughed at me over refusing to use chopsticks, then I'd not get angry. I'd laugh with you. I'd still stick to my knife and fork though. Now, if I was in Japan at the home of an old school family that might be insulted, I'd do the chopsticks.

Wow I took this way way way way way too far off topic, from flags to chopsticks.

ancora said:

Bein' from New York City originally, I use for chopsticks as it is considered gauche to use anything else when eating Chinese/Japanese food.

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Eating with sticks is primitive. I've given up for the most part, needing fork and knife to cut up the meal into bite-sized pieces. I don't like to slurp up my food. To be polite, I'll refrain from commenting on table manners of people from chopstick cultures.

psneeld said:

Is politely correcting "putting down"?

Then if they laugh at you and say stuff your stuffy traditions....then what do you say?

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Depends on the context. If we were boating together and I had my burgee in the "wrong" location, I would appreciate a polite correction. I may or may take the advice, but I wouldn't be offended and would take the information in the spirit it was meant.

If, on the other hand, I didn't know you from Adam and you walked across the dock to tell me my burgee was being flown wrong, I would be polite ('cause that is the way my father raised me), but internally I would think you were an ******* whom I never wanted to interact with again.

dhays said:

Depends on the context. If we were boating together and I had my burgee in the "wrong" location, I would appreciate a polite correction. I may or may take the advice, but I wouldn't be offended and would take the information in the spirit it was meant.

If, on the other hand, I didn't know you from Adam and you walked across the dock to tell me my burgee was being flown wrong, I would be polite ('cause that is the way my father raised me), but internally I would think you were an ******* whom I never wanted to interact with again.

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I am often complimented as an instructor captain for my intertwining customs, courtesies and etiquette while teaching all else boating....so it seems like a topic many serious boaters do take seriously.

I may offend some, but most are grateful I have added something positive in their boating learning curve.

psneeld said:

I am often complimented as an instructor captain for my intertwining customs, courtesies and etiquette while teaching all else boating....so it seems like a topic many serious boaters do take seriously.

I may offend some, but most are grateful I have added something positive in their boating learning curve.

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Wifey B: As an instructor captain, it's quite appropriate.

psneeld said:

I am often complimented as an instructor captain for my intertwining customs, courtesies and etiquette while teaching all else boating....so it seems like a topic many serious boaters do take seriously.

I may offend some, but most are grateful I have added something positive in their boating learning curve.

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I agree with WifeyB. If I hired an instructor Captain I would want any and all boating related information they can offer. Again, it is about context. You as an instructor have a relationship with your clients. It is perfectly appropriate in that situation.

Well my vessel is considered a pleasure craft. It is not registered bit licensed. I fly my national flag port side mid ship off the mast. 1- it's a flag 2- I assume other pleasure craft boaters around me don't know where the flag should actually be flown 3- I have nothing astern to fly the flag off.

Kyle, I fly the national flag midway up my topping lift when on my sailboat as I too have nothing on the stern to fly from. I think it looks good there. On my trawler I follow the usual rules already mentioned.

Kevin

ancora said:

Bein' from New York City originally, I use for chopsticks as it is considered gauche to use anything else when eating Chinese/Japanese food.

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Continuing... once Kidlet, Nana and I went to a late lunch at a Chinese restaurant. There were about eight tables occupied. We were the sole gringos in the place. It was about two in the afternoon.

Kidlet asked for a pair of chopsticks and proceeded to enjoy her pork fried rice.

I looked up and the eldest gentleman in the place had called over the waiter. He requested/received chopsticks. EVERYONE except Nana and I were using chopsticks by the end of our meal.

It was funny/odd how a young white girl could influence an entire restaurant. I could see that elderly gent, and could almost imagine what he was saying. Chopsticks were requested table by table as more diners realized what was happening.

I was proud of my baby girl. She was eight or ten at the time -- just a little lady. When we studied Asia I had bought both her and Son a pair of chopsticks to learn/use.

As for flags I fly the US one from the flag pole on the transom. It looks spiffy. And though I don't judge you (collectively) for not having an American flag showing, I will say I notice the boats that do display one. I prefer boats to show their colors.

Such is life on the waterfront.

Smooth wooden, blunt chopsticks placing food in your mouth or a cold, steel utensil with points on the end? Just thinking about it. Which is primitive?