Need help with Pure Sine vs Modified Sine inverters

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Another H U G E fan of Magnum. I have an 80 amp Charles charger. I was looking for a PSW stand alone inverter in the 2000 watt range. Unless you want to go Xantrex or other cheap stuff, there just isn't any decent stand alone powerful PSW inverters. So I have a 120 amp charger with a 2000 watt inverter. Do it right. Do it once. Be done with it. I never thought I would have an emotional attachment to a piece of electrical equipment, but I love the thing. And let's not forget. If you like your batteries, the Magnum is a 4 stage charger. The fourth stage being a resting stage where there is no charge on the batteries. The charger/BMK monitors the bank and will re apply the float charge if needed. A continuous float charge can theoretically be harmful to batteries over time. Anyway, my point being is, while you are not looking for a charger, you get one as a bonus. And in the Case of the Magnum Energy unit, a damn good one!!! The programmability of the Magnum is a huge plus as well...both on the inverter side as well as the charging side.

PS....a Xantrex PSW 1800 watt inverter only is almost the same price as the Magnum 2000/120amp inverter charger. And the Magnum is a SIGNIFICANTLY better unit!!!

PSS...I keep the Charles Charger off unless I really drained the batteries and need lots of charging power. Then it can work in tandem with the Magnum.

Amen! My inverter was a Magnum MS4024 with a multifunction system remote, Battery Monitor Kit and Auto Generator Start. Their support was great. How is it now that they have merged with Sensata?

I leave the inverter switched to "off" unless I need to run an appliance or some AC lighting.

I don't understand why you'd want to turn the inverter off....?
 
So the problem was that you didn't install it correctly. As someone who lived on inverter power 80% of the time in weeks, even months of full time living aboard on moorings and anchored, for several years, (let alone while underway) I found having a good marine inverter charger system to be invaluable, and one of, if not the very most reliable systems on board.

No argument that the boat was not set up properly. Lesson learned. My current boat is set up so I have minimal need for inverted power. All lighting, refergeration and fans are 12 volt. Stuff like TV, ice maker croc pot is about the only thing that is suitable for inverted power. My 1.5kw unit, when needed will do fine. The battery charger is a single bank smart 110 Amp hoss. I feel I have hands on control with this set up. Need lot of power then the genset gets to work. Works for me.
 
No argument that the boat was not set up properly. Lesson learned. My current boat is set up so I have minimal need for inverted power. All lighting, refergeration and fans are 12 volt. Stuff like TV, ice maker croc pot is about the only thing that is suitable for inverted power. My 1.5kw unit, when needed will do fine. The battery charger is a single bank smart 110 Amp hoss. I feel I have hands on control with this set up. Need lot of power then the genset gets to work. Works for me.

Not a damn thing wrong with that philosophy. Basically mine before I got the inverter. When I bought it and had it installed, I had sever buyer's remorse....basically I got it so the icemaker would keep running and so I didn't have to start the generator when somebody wanted to charge a cellphone. What I am shocked about is now I do not run the generator hardly at all!!! So there is some value in the lack of wear and tear on the generator and a little savings in fuel. Not trying to convince anyone here. Like I said, just shocked I don't run the generator at all really. So much so that I need to make a conscious effort to fire it up due to lack of use. With the Texas heat finally upon us, it will get a work out I am sure!!!
 
Beware...run that generator once a week for at least 30 minutes with a load. Found out the hard way.

I left your neck of the woods in '86. 1973-1986....Friendswood. Went to Fort Worth, after Alicia Hurricane and complete cable replacement by the phone company cable repair need was diminished, I managed cable repairmen SBC, now ATT.. Now in FL living on a Trawler retired of course.

After Ike year later, went back to Crystal Beach to find the old beach house. Found a 2" square piece tile on the plowed vacant lot, that was it.... Memories....
 
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I don't understand why you'd want to turn the inverter off....?

Because...most of my receptacles are on the inverter side and I down want heaters and dehumidifiers continuation to run in the event of a shot power failure...not ideal, I know but what I am doing for now until I wire some more receptacles onto the shore side of the panel.


Jim
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We had a Prosign 2000 pure sine inverter/ charger installed back in 2010 when we purchased our '81 GB. We upgraded the whole electrical system at that time. It has worked flawlessly for 6 years now. With the long hot summers here on Dauphin Island, AL we do run our generator most of the time for air conditioning etc though. But when day running, the engines do the charging and the basic equipment such as our engel freezer, ice maker, and basic 110 v stuff in on the inverter. All good.
 
I have a 2500 watt PSW Xantrex Freedom 2012 inverter/charger. Been fine for 4 years now. Thanks to all for scaring the pants off me. Saving my $$ for the replacement.
 
I have a 2500 watt PSW Xantrex Freedom 2012 inverter/charger. Been fine for 4 years now. Thanks to all for scaring the pants off me. Saving my $$ for the replacement.

Just because they have a poor reputation doesn't mean they all break. Dockside rumor has it that quality improved a few years after the private equity firm that owned them for awhile sold to Schneider of France in 2008.
 
Just because they have a poor reputation doesn't mean they all break. Dockside rumor has it that quality improved a few years after the private equity firm that owned them for awhile sold to Schneider of France in 2008.

it didn't stop my one year old charger from crapping out 3 days ago or the two others (of similar age) my buddy replaced the week before.
 
I have a 2500 watt PSW Xantrex Freedom 2012 inverter/charger. Been fine for 4 years now. Thanks to all for scaring the pants off me. Saving my $$ for the replacement.

HAHAHA!!! Sorry man...I laughed out loud when I read that. I did have the Xantrex 1800 PSW inverter on My Mainship. It had failed. I didn't use it much so I didn't replace it. But had to after the survey and the future owner wanted it replaced.
 
I'm going to resurrect this thread. Reading through it I fine it very informative.

I'm shopping for an inverter. Seems like a great use would be to charge a computer, phone, heat something in the micro and the small things. And to be able to run a fridge or ice maker would be huge.

I've got no problem cranking the genny, if necessary. It really doesn't cost that much to operate. However the convenience of having those little things available virtually all the time is great.

So... a few questions.

Seems like the cheap ones, that simple plug into the battery system and you plug your 110v item into them would be a PITA. I'd like one that ran ALL the 110v items on the boat and I'd just monitor it with regards to loads (or have some sort of automatic load "control" on the inverter.

About the wiring, can anyone draw a diagram that shows how to wire and inverter? And typically where do you put it? Suspect it would be idea to be close to battery switches?

Now, good comments on some of the models. Is there a point that has diminishing returns when going bigger? Suspect thea 1500watts would cover most of whats needed?

And what kind of battery bank is big enough, and would it be wise to consider a bigger alternator?

Thx.
 
I'm going to resurrect this thread. Reading through it I fine it very informative.

I'm shopping for an inverter. Seems like a great use would be to charge a computer, phone, heat something in the micro and the small things. And to be able to run a fridge or ice maker would be huge.

I've got no problem cranking the genny, if necessary. It really doesn't cost that much to operate. However the convenience of having those little things available virtually all the time is great.

So... a few questions.

Seems like the cheap ones, that simple plug into the battery system and you plug your 110v item into them would be a PITA. I'd like one that ran ALL the 110v items on the boat and I'd just monitor it with regards to loads (or have some sort of automatic load "control" on the inverter.

About the wiring, can anyone draw a diagram that shows how to wire and inverter? And typically where do you put it? Suspect it would be idea to be close to battery switches?

Now, good comments on some of the models. Is there a point that has diminishing returns when going bigger? Suspect thea 1500watts would cover most of whats needed?

And what kind of battery bank is big enough, and would it be wise to consider a bigger alternator?

Thx.

You're wise to be looking at the whole picture, some planning at this stage will pay dividends in a system that will work from the get-go with less chance of having to modify it after install just to make it functional.

Start with what you want the system to do. Add up the power requirements to determine a capacity for the inverter; run time for the loads in 24 hrs. will give you an amp hr. requirement, 2X that's going to be your battery bank size (unless you use lithium batteries) since you want to only discharge the bank to 50% DOD (depth of discharge). With that determined, ~15-20% of the battery amp hour capacity will be the minimum alternator capacity. The alternator should be externally regulated, preferably by a "smart" regulator. The size of the inverter and the distance to the battery bank will determine the cable size. Battery choice is a separate issue with its own ramifications. The choice of lithium changes the whole ballgame.

I would consider a full sine wave inverter, far more compatible with more devices. Unless you have a charger that has the capacity for ~.15C (C=battery amp hour capacity, so for ex. you have an 800AH bank, your charger should be able to produce about 160A), you'll probably be better to use an inverter/charger combination. An inverter/charger system without a battery monitor will leave you guessing the status of the battery bank, so figure on a battery monitor. I, like others am partial to Magnum, and like others, would stay far away from Xantrex.

If you plan a DIY install, make sure your skill set is up to the challenge. There are many details that can easily be overlooked and can create significant operational problems, and even more serious safety considerations, particularly co-mingling of neutral/ground conductors, cabling of the 12V, setup of the battery bank, alternator and related overcurrent protection. If you don't have a good grasp of those concepts, then you should consider enlisting the help of a marine electrician. A dock buddy who is an electrician (but not a marine electrician) and offers to help with the installation probably does not have a clue about marine application of an inverter, let alone proper 12VDC wiring.

An inverter is a significant improvement to a cruising boat. If done right, it can be a trouble-free system that will give you many years of benefit.

Hope that's helpful.
 
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A key issue is what appliances not to wire to the inverter. Typically boats are wired so that the inverter supplies all the house outlets except the water heater, the AC, and where there is a AC/DC refrigeration system the refrigeration system. An electrician or a competent do-it-yourselfer can easily do this. These items will only receive power when the generator is running or you are on shore power.

In addition I have found useful one duplex outlet which is excluded from the inverter output. Thus at anchor this outlet only receives power when the generator is running. I plug in several items which require charging to this outlet, such as handheld VHF radio, battery operated drill and our handheld spotlight.
 
The best piece of advice you have been given so far has been to get a proper marine electrician unless you already have those skills. I'm not talking about using wire crimpers and other tools but the knowledge about connections and what must be done for a safe installation.

Many of them will act as consultant giving you advice on placement, must do's, code and safety. Then you do the actual bullwork. But even then the electrician will do things in the normal course of their work they don't even think about anymore.
Guys watching me would ask why I did things a certain way and I was not even aware of it anymore untill they made me look.

No one should be offering you wiring schematics on a forum except in the most general manner as examples. Without examining YOUR boat that could be dangerous.

I have helped several people who had someone "that knew what they were doing" and after one fried his generator, another killed the batteries and someone else got shocked they figured out the money they saved was not saved at all.

A good guy will look your existing setup over and figure out what needs to be done and make recommendations.

You do need to assess what you want to run but be prepared to do manual load sharing or some thing is not going to function as you wish without a whole host of other mods. to the boat electrical. Battery bank size, alternator, charger, etc.
 
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Yep....agree with the marine electrician advice. I have a close friend who is one. With Magnum 2000watt/100amp inverter/charger my install was still close to $4k. And that is with a break on the labor. Driven by the same reasons you stated. I always joke(with myself) that I now have $4000 phone charger and icemaker. It was the icemaker that drove me really. There is a lot to be said for having ice whenever and wherever you want it without running the generator. In the end, do I think it is worth it??? Yes I do!!! I generally run my generator a lot during the hot summer months so it is not a big deal there. But in the cooler months my generator doesn't even get fired up for a 6 month stretch. In fact, I have to remember to fire it up on occasion just to keep it lubed up. Anyway, I do "enjoy" having it.
 
I'm assuming the 4K included the cost of the inverter.
 
I'm assuming the 4K included the cost of the inverter.

Yes it did....and the Battery Monitor Kit(BMK). And big battery cables are NOT cheap!!! I think just parts and cables and pieces were $2500 if I remember correctly. And to be honest, I do think there was a few other little odds and ends in there....like adding a battery to the bank. I have had it for a little over a year and it has worked flawlessly.
 
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