One whole week of boat ownership...more disaster!

Star0210 said:

Hubby heard from head mechanic yesterday. He said they pulled 3 gallons of water out. We added some type of additives to take care of whatever was remaining.
He wouldn't come out and say it came from the fuel but he said in his professional opinion, the engines would not have run with that amount of water in the fuel. He said if they were running and then they were not, whatever happened in the interim is where the water came from. And the only thing that happened in the interim was getting fuel.
He is separating the water removal part of the work and putting that on a separate invoice and including the details and his opinion. The cost was just under $400.
The rest of the work we were already having done which was just a general servicing/tune up.

At the end of the day it could have been a lot worse and I'm just happy our engines and generator are back up and running.

Click to expand...

It's a win and actually one of the advantages of gas that made it easier to clean and proceed. Now, you still need to be on the lookout as to causes of water getting in. Don't assume it was the fuel.

As to arguing with the marina, you have no argument really, even as much as you believe. They say "no" and even the mechanic you paid will not point the finger at them. Without an expert statement on the record, you really have nothing but a good lesson and a quickly fixed problem and time to get boating. Plus a testimony for towing membership.

Hubby spoke to the owner of the marina yesterday where we purchased the fuel and they came to a satisfactory conclusion.
Hubby had disputed the charge with our credit card company and owner is not going to fight that so we're not paying for the fuel which ssentially amounts to him splitting the cost with us. Hubby emailed him the report from the mechanic and he plans to file a claim with the report as evidence with his fuel supplier so I'm sure he'll end up being reimbursed for the fuel.

Good outcome for you guys and kudos on how you handled it.

Great selfie.

Wow ! sounds like a stand-up guy, Rare in the marine business. He'd get my business.

boatpoker said:

Wow ! sounds like a stand-up guy, Rare in the marine business. He'd get my business.

Click to expand...

Can't argue with that.
Should actually name him.
After all we don't hesitate to tell the world who the less than honorable ones are, even if it's only an opinion.

Star0210 said:

Hubby spoke to the owner of the marina yesterday where we purchased the fuel and they came to a satisfactory conclusion.
Hubby had disputed the charge with our credit card company and owner is not going to fight that so we're not paying for the fuel which ssentially amounts to him splitting the cost with us. Hubby emailed him the report from the mechanic and he plans to file a claim with the report as evidence with his fuel supplier so I'm sure he'll end up being reimbursed for the fuel.

Click to expand...

Are you planning on fueling up there again?

Star0210 said:

Hubby spoke to the owner of the marina yesterday where we purchased the fuel and they came to a satisfactory conclusion.
Hubby had disputed the charge with our credit card company and owner is not going to fight that so we're not paying for the fuel which ssentially amounts to him splitting the cost with us. Hubby emailed him the report from the mechanic and he plans to file a claim with the report as evidence with his fuel supplier so I'm sure he'll end up being reimbursed for the fuel.

Click to expand...

The marina owner is a wise businessman. He'll not get reimbursed by his supplier and he knows that. In reality, he could have fought the dispute of the charge and won. Most would have as the dispute would have angered them greatly. You believe the issue was his fuel but he has reason to believe otherwise. Ultimately no one can be sure. He decided that business wise it made more sense to take the loss on the fuel and let it go.

BandB said:

The marina owner is a wise businessman. .... He decided that business wise it made more sense to take the loss on the fuel and let it go.

Click to expand...

IT takes a $100,000.00 in good will type advertising to overcome a disgruntled customer voicing their negative experience with a business. There is validity in the old saying "the customer is always right". Marina owner handled this well.

ragin cajun; said:

Marina owner handled this well.

Click to expand...

He did.
It has also been stated that it is a busy and trusted facility so, hesitancy to return should not be a factor.

Somehow, I think this was a one off somewhere.

BandB said:

The marina owner is a wise businessman. He'll not get reimbursed by his supplier and he knows that. In reality, he could have fought the dispute of the charge and won. Most would have as the dispute would have angered them greatly. You believe the issue was his fuel but he has reason to believe otherwise. Ultimately no one can be sure. He decided that business wise it made more sense to take the loss on the fuel and let it go.

Click to expand...

Yes he could have fought it...but IMO he handled it correctly.
We live in a small river community. I'm quite sure the owner knows the mechanic and while the mechanic obviously wouldn't outright name him as the source his words left little room for interpretation. The writing was on the wall so to speak and the owner knew it.

Your community may be small but a very large boating community that comes from near by. I have bought fuel (GAS) from them many times and also keep my boat there in the fall, they have always treated us well. I say like other they want your business because I do not know of any other place around there that sells fuel. How did the stripe come out?

The thing that puzzles me is whether it is even possible that OP was the only one to receive a load of really bad fuel (and gasoline, which is not nearly as sensitive to water as diesel), especially from a self-serve place. If their docks' tanks were full of water, there should have been others that had OP's same experience, that same day. And since OP's is a very small community, word should have spread quickly. In fact, OP's mechanic, being highly regarded and one of few, should have received several calls on the same problem. Especially since the boat is new to OP, isn't it a significant possibilitythat something on the boat went wrong to cause the problem. It was said above that we will never know, and that is likely true. But if OP suffers the same fate again any time soon, I would conclude that the dock's fuel was not the problem.

This does interest me as well, given all the variables.

I may give a quick call over there tomorrow to see what the guys at the dock think.

Given the quantity of water, I agree that their very large tanks did not have significant contamination. Basically out of an approximate 42 gallon fuel purchase, approximately 3 gallons of water were found. I have a single fuel tank of 150 gallon capacity. the bottom of the tank is sloped to match the hull shape (bottom 3 inches of the tank is essentially a triangle). My engine intakes are dead bottom to this lowest point. Based on volume calculation for the tank geometry and location of intakes, my intakes are flooded approximately 2 gallons liquid level in the tank. Therefore, if 3 gallons of water had been present in my fuel system prior to the fueling operation, my engines would not have been running to get me to the fuel dock much less running for the two plus hours of cruising on the river prior to entering the fuel dock.

This is likely one of those things that will remain a mystery. If it never happens again (hopefully) then it was probably the fuel you picked up. Even so, there is no way to tell for sure unless the fuel dock found contamination or others experienced the same problem.

kartracer said:

Your community may be small but a very large boating community that comes from near by. I have bought fuel (GAS) from them many times and also keep my boat there in the fall, they have always treated us well. I say like other they want your business because I do not know of any other place around there that sells fuel. How did the stripe come out?

Click to expand...

Kart: I've always used the Fuel Dock at Pass Manchac, it's under new management and has 24 hour diesel/gas, payw/ credit card and fill up. No fuel issues in 8 years. Pass Manchac is the pass between Ponchartrain and Maurepas, Hwy 55 crosses there.

Gulf Comanche said:

Kart: I've always used the Fuel Dock at Pass Manchac, it's under new management and has 24 hour diesel/gas, payw/ credit card and fill up. No fuel issues in 8 years. Pass Manchac is the pass between Ponchartrain and Maurepas, Hwy 55 crosses there.

Click to expand...

Next to Middendorf's?

Yes, coming from y'alls slip it's on the right (North) side as you approach the Hwy 55 bridge, right up next to the train tracks. If you go under the bridge like to get to Mittendorfs you've gone too far. I haven't been there since it was sold but need to pretty soon.

Gulf Comanche said:

Yes, coming from y'alls slip it's on the right (North) side as you approach the Hwy 55 bridge, right up next to the train tracks. If you go under the bridge like to get to Mittendorfs you've gone too far. I haven't been there since it was sold but need to pretty soon.

Click to expand...

Ok that's the one I was thinking of. I noticed it when we went to Middendorf's the other day.

Surprised you do not have pick up tubes and tank just empties from the bottom. WOW with the placement of the pickup and using all the fuel in the tank I think you will need very good filtration. Does the gen. pick up in the same place?

Yes, all three engines pick up from connection at the top of the tank with tubes that extend to within an inch of bottom of tank.

Oki, so here is an ideal. Stars's bought the boat and it probably has not been run or fueled in a long time. 'IF' the tanks are baffled
(which a 150 gallon tank could be), water could possible accumulate via condensation in the tank or rain through the fill cap and collect in baffled areas over the years that it sat at the dock as a live- aboard.. Then, when new owner (starman) filled the tanks, the accumulated water was pushed towards the bottom of the tank near the fuel pickup.
I am not sure if this is possible as I have no idea how the tank is constructed or it's orientation, but I thought I would throw it out there. It's hard to imagine a fuel supplier giving Stars the contaminated fuel and they are they only customer affected (that we know of).

For what it is worth , I have a truck that kept getting water in the fuel, I was able to drain it out of the fuel filter as the filter has that capability with a warning light. However, I found that it got into the tank through an unconnected line on top of the tank and when you drove it in the rain, water would accumulate on top of the tank and find its way in.

StarsMan is the gen. tube the same length as the engine tubes.

Kartracer-yes the gen tube is the same length.
Bligh-that is a possibility which is why I didn't push the issue with the marina owner and agreed to basically absorb the mechanic charge in exchange for the fuel cost. At then end of the day, no damage to the engines, and I was already planning additional service on them anyway so it all ended up ok. I am not going to say I will never fuel up there again but I definitely won't until I have installed mitigating facilities including fuel water separators and a couple of empty 5 gallon gas can that the initial pumping can go into.

StarsMan said:

Given the quantity of water, I agree that their very large tanks did not have significant contamination. Basically out of an approximate 42 gallon fuel purchase, approximately 3 gallons of water were found. I have a single fuel tank of 150 gallon capacity. the bottom of the tank is sloped to match the hull shape (bottom 3 inches of the tank is essentially a triangle). My engine intakes are dead bottom to this lowest point. Based on volume calculation for the tank geometry and location of intakes, my intakes are flooded approximately 2 gallons liquid level in the tank. Therefore, if 3 gallons of water had been present in my fuel system prior to the fueling operation, my engines would not have been running to get me to the fuel dock much less running for the two plus hours of cruising on the river prior to entering the fuel dock.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. Like you set-up, mine also always draws from the bottom of the twin tanks, so any significant water in them would quickly overwhelm the primary separator volume and kill the engine in very short order. Has never happened, and I only ever get a teaspoonful out of the separator, yet I theoretically break the rules re condensation by never having full tanks, so even the so-called gremlin of condensation appears not to matter.

There is no way you accumulated several gallons of water that way. So,if there is no possibility of a leak of rainwater, someone accidentally putting water in the fuel filler, or someone accidentally connecting a water line to the tank somehow - the mind boggles as to how - then it must have come in via the fuel.

Is it possible, just by freak of bad luck timing, you filled up just as their main storage tank was getting really low, and you sucked out years worth of water contamination usually never reached..? It would depend on the pump pick-up system in place in those ground tanks. But because water intrusion is more likely in ground tanks than others, it would be interesting to see how their pick-up is positioned. From fixed near the bottom, or on some sort of floating device, so it sucks fuel from nearer the top most of the time - until it gets really low, that is..?

I can't remember seeing if that possibility was canvassed. They would deny it anyway, of course, but I wonder...

Peter B said:

Totally agree. Like you set-up, mine also always draws from the bottom of the twin tanks, so any significant water in them would quickly overwhelm the primary separator volume and kill the engine in very short order. Has never happened, and I only ever get a teaspoonful out of the separator, yet I theoretically break the rules re condensation by never having full tanks, so even the so-called gremlin of condensation appears not to matter.

There is no way you accumulated several gallons of water that way. So,if there is no possibility of a leak of rainwater, someone accidentally putting water in the fuel filler, or someone accidentally connecting a water line to the tank somehow - the mind boggles as to how - then it must have come in via the fuel.

Is it possible, just by freak of bad luck timing, you filled up just as their main storage tank was getting really low, and you sucked out years worth of water contamination usually never reached..? It would depend on the pump pick-up system in place in those ground tanks. But because water intrusion is more likely in ground tanks than others, it would be interesting to see how their pick-up is positioned. From fixed near the bottom, or on some sort of floating device, so it sucks fuel from nearer the top most of the time - until it gets really low, that is..?

I can't remember seeing if that possibility was canvassed. They would deny it anyway, of course, but I wonder...

Click to expand...

Ok so here is the dilemma for me. On one hand we have a fueling station that seems to have a good reputation of delivering fuel to many customers and likely has a sysyem to separate water from fuel. On the other hand we have a boat that hasnt left the dock , been run, or refueled in ages, maybe decades.
Sure the simple answer is the fueling station, but then again we are talking about a boat.
I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point, but I'm not convinced it was the fueling station.

bligh said:

Oki, so here is an ideal. Stars's bought the boat and it probably has not been run or fueled in a long time. 'IF' the tanks are baffled
(which a 150 gallon tank could be), water could possible accumulate via condensation in the tank or rain through the fill cap and collect in baffled areas over the years that it sat at the dock as a live- aboard.. Then, when new owner (starman) filled the tanks, the accumulated water was pushed towards the bottom of the tank near the fuel pickup.
I am not sure if this is possible as I have no idea how the tank is constructed or it's orientation, but I thought I would throw it out there. It's hard to imagine a fuel supplier giving Stars the contaminated fuel and they are they only customer affected (that we know of).

For what it is worth , I have a truck that kept getting water in the fuel, I was able to drain it out of the fuel filter as the filter has that capability with a warning light. However, I found that it got into the tank through an unconnected line on top of the tank and when you drove it in the rain, water would accumulate on top of the tank and find its way in.

Click to expand...

That was a possibility we discussed the night it happened with some of the guys here at our marina. We all sat around under the tree tossing around ideas. One is a diesel mechanic and another an airline mechanic and another one an engineer and the other guy was the one who was out with us. All of these guys are very experienced boaters. My hubby is a chemical engineer. They all went down into the ER and had a look around.
We all kind of came to the conclusion that that scenario would have been more of a possibility had we been low on fuel to begin with.
We didn't need any fuel when we got it, we mainly did it to give hubby practice backing into fuel dock. We had roughly half a tank.
Also, in that scenario, the sloshing around that occurred just from running the boat up and down the river for a few hours would have done the same thing.
We also brought up this possibility to the mechanic and he discounted that idea. But we're willing to say that although unlikely, it is a remote possibility. We also asked him for an "official" verification that water wasn't getting in through the fill cap and according to him its not.

To recap the events leading up to this.
We ran the boat for several hours during sea trial.
After purchase, the boat was moved to our slip.
Two days later we took it out for another few hours.
The day this happened we took it out...cruised up the river and docked it at the city wall while we went and got a bite to eat. Got back on the boat and ran it up the river to the lake, turned around and came back and then stopped for fuel.
Never a single problem one during any of these trips.
Didn't get 100 yds off the fuel dock after putting fuel in when all 3 engines shut down basically simultaneously.

bligh said:

I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point

Click to expand...

Yeehaw....like the two leaks we've been waiting to make an appearance that finally did last night in the hard rains.
We knew about them, but weren't 100% sure the source.
One was a very simple fix that hubby took care of this morning. The other we have temporarily fixed until this bad weather clears out and hubby can do it right.

bligh said:

Ok so here is the dilemma for me. On one hand we have a fueling station that seems to have a good reputation of delivering fuel to many customers and likely has a sysyem to separate water from fuel. On the other hand we have a boat that hasnt left the dock , been run, or refueled in ages, maybe decades.
Sure the simple answer is the fueling station, but then again we are talking about a boat.
I'm sure stars has other things to worry about with his new boat at this point, but I'm not convinced it was the fueling station.

Click to expand...

Oh the boat was used by the PO. Not very often, but they did take it out every once in a while. I have the receipt from the last time he had fuel delivered...id have to go dig it out to see when it was but it wasn't all that long ago.