which is best: Nordhavn vs. Kadey Krogen

bfloyd4445 said:

you still down there hiding behind that bridge<smile>. But its the human error that will sinK your boat not your boat

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Yes suh!

markpierce said:

Yes suh!

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yeah, i thought that was you i saw peeking from behind the bridge.
I'm often in the Korth's marina area or in Charleston Oregon at the entrance to Coos Bay

Nice pix thanks for posting.

KK's are fine boats, no question, and will do what you want.
Our choice was Nordhavn, & no regrets. INFINITY has traversed God's blue earth once before, and we are well on our way to her 2nd circumnavigation. Currently in Tahiti, we're bound for New Zealand at the end of the month, via the South Pacific Islands.

Either boat will do what you want, you can't lose. Make it happen

"Either boat will do what you want, you can't lose."

"But the truth is i mostly fish and want a boat that can handle a typhoon or hurricane and force 10 winds seas."

Pretty doubtful that either boat would survive the OP desirement for a boat for

"boat that can handle a typhoon or hurricane".at sea.

Most folks use and respect the weather forecast.

nemier said:

KK's are fine boats, no question, and will do what you want.
Our choice was Nordhavn, & no regrets. INFINITY has traversed God's blue earth once before, and we are well on our way to her 2nd circumnavigation. Currently in Tahiti, we're bound for New Zealand at the end of the month, via the South Pacific Islands.

Either boat will do what you want, you can't lose. Make it happen

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Must note that you have a significantly larger boat than he is talking about and there is a lot of difference between 62' and 40-46'. While people do what you have done in smaller boats, I'd sure feel far more comfortable doing it in yours.

nemier said:

KK's are fine boats, no question, and will do what you want.
Our choice was Nordhavn, & no regrets. INFINITY has traversed God's blue earth once before, and we are well on our way to her 2nd circumnavigation. Currently in Tahiti, we're bound for New Zealand at the end of the month, via the South Pacific Islands.

Either boat will do what you want, you can't lose. Make it happen

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Thanks
What a beautiful vessel. But at the speed you are currently traveling at its going to take you a long long time to get around the world. Just curious what is your fuel burn at cruising speed?
I've recieved tons of great advice but i still can't nake up my mind. KK seems to be slightly more fuel eficient but Nordhavn appears to have the edge in quality of build. Just my observations I have yet to get on board any of them. Guess thats my next step

bfloyd4445 said:

KK seems to be slightly more fuel eficient but Nordhavn appears to have the edge in quality of build. Just my observations I have yet to get on board any of them. Guess thats my next step

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They are very different boats in many ways. However, the fuel efficiency between the two is irrelevant. Here's why I'm saying that. When you consider the entire cost of owning and operating those two boats, the difference in fuel costs will be so insignificant in the total picture you won't even see it if you don't look carefully. Fuel for us is about 8% of our total costs, but let's say for a moment it's 10% for you. Then say there is a 20% difference between two boats. That means it impacts your cost of ownership by 2%.

If you were talking a Fountain vs. a KK then it would be significant.

BandB said:

They are very different boats in many ways. However, the fuel efficiency between the two is irrelevant. Here's why I'm saying that. When you consider the entire cost of owning and operating those two boats, the difference in fuel costs will be so insignificant in the total picture you won't even see it if you don't look carefully. Fuel for us is about 8% of our total costs, but let's say for a moment it's 10% for you. Then say there is a 20% difference between two boats. That means it impacts your cost of ownership by 2%.

If you were talking a Fountain vs. a KK then it would be significant.

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I just keep thinking of plunking down $3500 bucks to fill the tank. I'm still in the go fast mode like your fountain. My Grady was fast and the tanks emptied in direct porportion to the speed. But then their is a diference between 6-7knts and 50+.....The tank full in either will last for 3,000 + miles
But your right, the fuel is a small item in the cost of ownership.
The truth is between a kk and a Nordhavn there is no"better", they both are fine boats and either will do the job even if very slowly

My number one concern is safety and comfort at sea for two three weeks and either will do that. There's a broker in Seattle that wants me to drop by and go out with him and maybe i should do that. He is a kk dealer i think and like's the 39
Theirs another in Washington that tells me kk's are no good they have water intrusion issues and a Nordhavn or Selene is the way to go.
To be honest i would rather just buy from an owner direct.

bfloyd4445 said:

Can't decide which to buy Nord 40 to 46 or a kady same size range. Looking for extreme range and the ability to stay weeks at sea. Any suggestions?

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I think if you have to ask, you haven't done your research. Anyone willing to put that kind of money down, will have a good idea of what they feel is important.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

bfloyd4445 said:

Theirs another in Washington that tells me kk's are no good they have water intrusion issues and a Nordhavn or Selene is the way to go.

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Let me venture a guess, he carries those two brands?

JDCAVE said:

I think if you have to ask, you haven't done your research. Anyone willing to put that kind of money down, will have a good idea of what they feel is important.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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Your right i know whats important to me, I like both brands and if i were rich i would likely buy both but I'm not. Owning more than one boat is the norm for me anyway.
I was hoping someone would make a statement that would help me eliminate one of the two. Either will do the job I think i should just look at both brands in the size range I'm looking for and but the one that has the most bang for the buck.
Everyone has been very helpful

Has this thread helped you in any way? Have you been better able to define your priorities? Do you still want to fish in typhoon conditions? Is your objective to fish? Have you considered a boat better suited to that mission? Have you figured out whether you are the type of fisherman that wants to travel to and return from the grounds at high speed? Or, are you comfortable with trawler speed? Is you concern over efficiency based on range, or cost? If cost, do you still think it matters? If range, have you figured out how much you need? You have been given a lot of advice, but whether it is good advice really depends on a better understanding of your objectives. If I were you, that is what I would focus on.

bfloyd4445 said:

To be honest i would rather just buy from an owner direct.

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Not likely to happen. All the more reason you don't need to be dancing with many brokers but need to find one you trust to be your buyer's broker. A huge percentage of the Nordhavn's end up listed by them. I'm sure a sizable percentage of KK's end up listed through them. There have been some broker recommendations made on this site, good brokers not tied to either brand or any other specific brand.

Also, the question is not which brand is best. Repeat that out loud. The question is what boat out there is the best match for you. The majority of boat builders today build good boats. However, the best built boat out there might be a lousy fit for you.

JDCAVE said:

I think if you have to ask, you haven't done your research. Anyone willing to put that kind of money down, will have a good idea of what they feel is important.

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Along the same lines. If you are torn between KK and Nordhavn, how do you know either is the boat for you? They are very different. There are many other brands. Why not Hatteras or Viking? What about McKinna? What about Diesel Duck? Cape Horn? Bering? What about Grand Banks or Marlow? Selene? Fleming? What is the basis on which you've eliminated all those. If you had a real reason for doing so, it would probably eliminate either KK or Nordhavn too.

MYTraveler said:

Has this thread helped you in any way? Have you been better able to define your priorities? Do you still want to fish in typhoon conditions? Is your objective to fish? Have you considered a boat better suited to that mission? Have you figured out whether you are the type of fisherman that wants to travel to and return from the grounds at high speed? Or, are you comfortable with trawler speed? Is you concern over efficiency based on range, or cost? If cost, do you still think it matters? If range, have you figured out how much you need? You have been given a lot of advice, but whether it is good advice really depends on a better understanding of your objectives. If I were you, that is what I would focus on.

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chuckle.....yes the comments of posters has helped me and i have learned. Believe it or not
I'm done with the go fast gas guzzling sportfishers and wish a soft lazy comfortable safe vessel that can be fished. Had a Downeast 41 which i often wish i had never sold and I guess thats why the Nord's and KK's attract me. The Downeast Defever made by Don Poole in Santa Anna Ca. has at least two documented cape horn passages. She is a dry stout vessel and even came with a get home electric motor which most owners ripped out. I could go on and on but the fact is there are few boats i consider her equal in that size range for costal work. Don also made the last of the Westsails before he died a sudden death and his son took over running the company into the drink shortly there after. As a matter of fact there is one for sale right now in Texas but it was repowered with a 440hp yammar i think. 75-120 is all the boat needs. Most came with lehmans a few with perkins.
As for range I will likely never need 4000 miles but its nice to know you can if you wish. Don't think i would want to carry that much fuel unless i was going on a long trip. Just i have never owned a boat with that kind of range and i have owned lots of boats over the years. 7knts is fast enough for the fish i would be hunting anyway. Just slow boats scare me if a storm drops in unexpected so i want safe first.
Have i answered your questions? I'm gonna get one and now armed with your comments i will be kicking tires maybe this weekend. There are a couple of KK's for sale not far from me that i can go look at. Trouble is i'm not fond of brokers
I will keep everyone posted as to which i end up with and will post pix

MYTraveler said:

Has this thread helped you in any way? Have you been better able to define your priorities? Do you still want to fish in typhoon conditions? Is your objective to fish? Have you considered a boat better suited to that mission? Have you figured out whether you are the type of fisherman that wants to travel to and return from the grounds at high speed? Or, are you comfortable with trawler speed? Is you concern over efficiency based on range, or cost? If cost, do you still think it matters? If range, have you figured out how much you need? You have been given a lot of advice, but whether it is good advice really depends on a better understanding of your objectives. If I were you, that is what I would focus on.

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Amen!!! I have read this entire thread in one sitting. Get a friggin' sportfish already!!! You say you have and then all you mention is a Grady White. While a Grady is a wonderful boat for what it is made for, it is not even close to the league of boat that you are considering. And if fuel consumption concerns you(for financial purposes and not range), then you are out of your league when discussing the boats being discussed here. Get a Hatteras/Viking/Cabo/Bertram. And if you need range, throttle back. How do you think Sportfishes make it to distant ports????? Bladder tanks...slow speeds....and a GREAT BIG EYE on the weather!!!! If the Sportfishes I have mentioned scare you off due to expense, you have no business discussing Nordhavns or Krogens!!

Somewhere here recently (oh that's right, 2 posts above this one) I thought you mentioned that you used to own a DeFever 40. This thread must have helped you decide to buy it.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/marinetrader-vs-defever-7801.html

Why and when did you sell it?

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/what-8520.html

All told you've started over 25 threads and have over 1,000 posts(mostly talking in circles) that anyone can search at anytime.


You mentioned in your posts during that time period thinking about buying a Grady White... So you bought and sold it in the last 3 years too...

Look Britt, if you wanna troll this place and the mods are cool with it then so am I, this stuff is entertaining to read. Just don't think you're BS'ing everybody here, just some of the newer ones.

Baker said:

And if you need range, throttle back. How do you think Sportfishes make it to distant ports????? Bladder tanks...slow speeds....and a GREAT BIG EYE on the weather!!!! If the Sportfishes I have mentioned scare you off due to expense, you have no business discussing Nordhavns or Krogens!!

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And with a SF, if he's just fishing offshore, he has the speed to quickly get to shore to avoid the Force 10 or Category 5 he's worried about. A Hatteras or Viking would be a great option and many convertibles around in all ages and sizes.

I just read this thread this evening as well. Very interesting indeed, I hope you find what you're looking for. How about having one of these built? Full displacement and looks cool.

Sockeye 42 – Devlin Designing Boat Builders

bfloyd4445 said:

Theirs another in Washington that tells me kk's are no good they have water intrusion issues and a Nordhavn or Selene is the way to go.
To be honest i would rather just buy from an owner direct.

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On behalf of the many Krogen owners around the globe we are thankful for this broker pointing out an issue that we had not heard of before.

I have a few absolute rules, one of which is never to deal with a service provider once I have caught him or her lying to me.

Whether the Krogen or the Nordhavn is the better boat for you is subjective and only you can make that decision.

Bay Pelican said:

I have a few absolute rules, one of which is never to deal with a service provider once I have caught him or her lying to me.
.

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I have the same and I will often ask questions designed to just give them the chance to do so, questions I know the answers to. Integrity is key to me. I've walked quickly away from auto dealers and said no to many other suppliers over simple unnecessary lies, figuring if they'll lie on those things, they sure will on major things.

Bay Pelican said:

I have a few absolute rules, one of which is never to deal with a service provider once I have caught him or her lying to me.

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BandB said:

Integrity is key to me. I've walked quickly away from auto dealers and said no to many other suppliers over simple unnecessary lies, figuring if they'll lie on those things, they sure will on major things.

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+3

Bay Pelican said:

On behalf of the many Krogen owners around the globe we are thankful for this broker pointing out an issue that we had not heard of before.

I have a few absolute rules, one of which is never to deal with a service provider once I have caught him or her lying to me.

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I've seen a number of mentions of doing a bottom peel on a Krogen but have never seen that mentioned for a Nordhavn. Maybe the KKs are older, there are more of them, I don't know - but it's definitely one of the top few alarm bells in MY mind about an older KK.

I also have no respect for a salesperson who puts down his competitor's product. If yours has advantages, you can point them out and the customer will realize the competitor doesn't have them. You can honestly explain certain differences that aren't criticisms but you better be sure you're 100% accurate so that may not be smart. Just present the strength of what you have to offer.

An effective sales tool is a page one can use to comparison shop. You put columns and attributes. In Column 1 you put your boat with all it's attributes checked. You provide this as a courtesy tool to assist them in shopping.

You can do things very subtly too, especially in defending your brand against attacks you know others will make. Something like this. "Our boat will cruise at 6 knots and top speed is 8 knots. The fuel usage is xxxx. Some boats in our range do have more speed but we didn't feel it was worth it to sacrifice efficiency and durability. Our experience with long range cruising has also taught us that most people end up cruising at displacement speeds or near them and are very happy that way."

refugio said:

I've seen a number of mentions of doing a bottom peel on a Krogen but have never seen that mentioned for a Nordhavn. Maybe the KKs are older, there are more of them, I don't know - but it's definitely one of the top few alarm bells in MY mind about an older KK.

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Good point with respect to bottom peals. But then the bottom peals on the pre - 1990 Krogens where needed have been done. Don't think this carried over into later years.

Didn't get the impression the OP was talking about pre-1990 boats either Northhavn or Krogen. The Nordhavn 40 and the Krogen 44 are both post 1995.

i am a sportfish captain turned catamaran sailor turned kk trawler owner and love living off the sea. fishing while doing 7 or 8 knots is perfect for trolling for dinner. and while at anchor i set up my dinghy for reef fishing and diving. it can be done very easy.

I think the hass's are on their 4 circumnavigation in their nordhavn 46. Obviously they spend a lot of time at sea. They also seem to prefer the 46 over say the more livable versions of the nordhavn fleet and even their boat spends over 85 percent of its time just sitting. Fifteen years ago the krogen 42 or the nordhavn 46 were the boat I would have bought if I had quit sailing. More difficult than finding these boats is finding the ones that have been cared for by the right owner. Enjoy the hunt.


Spell check via iPhone.

If you go with a full displacement hull, make sure it has stabilizers. A KK48 owner just got an estimate to add active stabilizers. About $60K complete.

Larry M said:

If you go with a full displacement hull, make sure it has stabilizers. A KK48 owner just got an estimate to add active stabilizers. About $60K complete.

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This thread made me look at the N40 again, and speaking of stabilization, I wonder if the short N40 pitches in a decent size head sea vs a KK42?

That N40 sure looks short! KK LWL 39'2" vs only 35'5" for the N40. My boat has a similar LWL to the N40 and she does do some pitching in the right (wrong) seas, but mine probably weighs half as much.

JDCAVE said:

I think if you have to ask, you haven't done your research. Anyone willing to put that kind of money down, will have a good idea of what they feel is important.

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I agree! After reading all the posts on this thread, I'm not convinced that the OP is serious about buying a Nordhavn or a KK. (Or anything, for that matter.) It sounds more like "How many posts can i get with this topic?")