ASD and the Inside Passage

Great story!

Alaskan Sea-Duction; said:

Then I realized that we were going WITH the current, not against it. Mmmm lesson learned here. Going to low tide the current flow north.

Click to expand...

Tom; I may have come across a bit harsh with my earlier comment about taking another look at the chart. I was then and still am, wondering how you came to believe you were working with a falling (ebb) tide?

Tom, The flood flows north and the ebb flows south at Dodd Narrows. When you get a little further north ( Campbell River/ Desolation Sound), this will reverse and the flood will flow south and the ebb will flow north. All that water needs to get out from behind Vancouver Island and will flow either south or north, depending on where you are. When you get further north, the currents run all different directions. Best to check your cruise guides or turn on your current arrows in your navigation program if you have that feature.

I would encourage you to keep your radar on at all times as you will be sharing those waters with cruise ships and ferries. Those big guys are going 20 kts. or more and can sneak up behind you real fast. You got a taste of it yesterday.

Possibly looking at tide tables, not the current tables???
Had a sailor come into Browns Bay Marina a couple of
days ago complaining that the timing for Seymour Narrows
was off by about 2 hours, was going to write gov't a letter.
He didn't understand that tide and current change weren't
simultaneous.

Ted

Russell Clifton said:

Tom, The flood flows north and the ebb flows south at Dodd Narrows. When you get a little further north ( Campbell River/ Desolation Sound), this will reverse and the flood will flow south and the ebb will flow north.

Click to expand...

Excellent points. Mitlenach Island in Georgia Strait, between Oyster Bay and Hernando Island is where the N-S floods meet. Mitlenach to the Coast Salish means "calm waters."

Ted said:

Possibly looking at tide tables, not the current tables???
Had a sailor come into Browns Bay Marina a couple of
days ago complaining that the timing for Seymour Narrows
was off by about 2 hours, was going to write gov't a letter.
He didn't understand that tide and current change weren't
simultaneous.

Click to expand...

Yes, see it all the time. You'd think sailors would be all over current info. I used to enjoy sitting in Pirates Cove watching the confused sail boats hitting Gabriola Pass a couple hours off. Skookumchuck is a crazy one to nail down.

I doubt Tom was confusing tide and current. His timing was early but close enough for Dodd; it was his current direction that was askew. Needs to get a handle on that. I don't see arrows on his digital chart picture...I guess we need him to tell us.

Might not hear from Tom for a bit. Probably waiting at the dock for the night crawlers to come do their laundry in the drink.

Might be at the Dinghy Pub, I know the food was good a few years ago.

Ted

Tom:

Great stories. We like the Dinghy Dock pub too, First I have heard that it makes ladies lose their pants!
That sailboat ahead of you at Dodd, reminds me of one of the first transits I made there, in my 30' sailboat. We were heading north, so I timed it to arrive at peak flood current We went through in a flash, then promptly did a 360 before getting set firmly into Northumberland Channel. Great fun. Another time, in my 37' sailboat, we needed to be at Thetis Island in a hurry, so pushed through against the flood. Didn't know till then that there is an overfall of about 6" on a strong flood, but hey, we needed to get through, so pushed the old 55 hp Lehman to "overheat speed" and climbed that overfall in about 10 minutes, just till the overheat alarm started to wail. All good.
Thanks for your stories. Keep them coming.

Tom, I just have one question--did she give you any Klondike Bars for rescuing her?


I'm enjoying your "Travel Tales" so please keep 'em coming.

Hawgwash said:

Half nekked ladies swimmin' in the moonlight.
Like you said, welcome to Nanaimo and good for you; Tom to the rescue.

Now, you might want to take another look at your chart for Dodd Narrows. You were travelling with the flood. Albeit the tail end.

Also, not to encourage you but, with your power, you could have pretty much gone through there any time. Good you felt your way the first time though.

I was not around much on the weekend or maybe would have wandered by. Never quite know what to do with strangers though. Intrusions and all.

At one point I did see you two lollygagging along outside the wine store. I had a notion to call out to Kay and leave you wondering what guy in a strange town knew her...and why.

I took 5 pics of you leaving and can send them to you, if you like, just say how.

If you do go up to Louisa, do yourselves a favour and stop in at Egmont, if there is room. The 2 mile walk from there to Skookumchuck Narrows is well worth it. Especially if you can see the ebb. It's like a giant water slide. Impressive.

Also a preview of what lies ahead, north of Desolation sound.

Click to expand...

Thanks Hawg. That would have been great for Kay to have a stranger call her name! In fact it would have been entertaining!

Hawgwash said:

Tom; I may have come across a bit harsh with my earlier comment about taking another look at the chart. I was then and still am, wondering how you came to believe you were working with a falling (ebb) tide?

Click to expand...

Oh no worries my friend. It would appear I misread the current book (Ports and Passes) for Dodd Narrows. It stated for May 24th:

SLK MAX F/E
12:35a 3:03a +4.1
5:51a 9:04a -5.8
12:14p 3:24p +8.0
7:10p 10:09p -5.4


So from the above I thought I was going to a low tide slack at 7:10P because the F/E was a negative number.

So where did I go wrong?

Help Please....


NOTE:Well my chart stuff won't format properly.

Hawgwash said:

Yes, see it all the time. You'd think sailors would be all over current info. I used to enjoy sitting in Pirates Cove watching the confused sail boats hitting Gabriola Pass a couple hours off. Skookumchuck is a crazy one to nail down.

I doubt Tom was confusing tide and current. His timing was early but close enough for Dodd; it was his current direction that was askew. Needs to get a handle on that. I don't see arrows on his digital chart picture...I guess we need him to tell us.

Click to expand...

I will look for the current features and turn them on. In the Ports and Pass book, it does have a diagram showing the direction of the flood and ebb. You are also correct I need to get a handle on this.

So from the current predictions above in my other post, how would you know flood vs ebb?

GFC said:

Tom, I just have one question--did she give you any Klondike Bars for rescuing her?

Click to expand...

Hell no! The cops had to haul her and her friend to the hospital. By the ring she was wearing, hubby will not be a happy camper when he gets the call. I feel like I was cheated!!!

Ate at the dinghy pub last night and had fun. Today exploring Nanaimo and the fish and chips restaurant at the marina. Look at trying to cross tomorrow, best time mid-morning to get to Pender harbor. But may wait till Saturday....




Today Tonight and Friday
Strong wind warning in effect.

Wind northwest 15 to 20 knots diminishing to northwest 10 to 15 near noon then increasing to northwest 15 to 25 this evening. Wind becoming northwest 15 Friday morning then diminishing to light near noon Friday. Wind becoming southeast 5 to 15 Friday evening.




Saturday


Wind light increasing to southeast 15 to 20 knots in the afternoon.

I see you found Pacific - South Coast - South Coast - Environment Canada

Great site for the weather isn't it!

So in talking to our friends it would appear the reason Dodd narrows was still in flood was i had arrived EARLY by an hour.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Oh no worries my friend. It would appear I misread the current book (Ports and Passes) for Dodd Narrows. It stated for May 24th:

SLK MAX F/E
12:35a 3:03a +4.1
5:51a 9:04a -5.8
12:14p 3:24p +8.0
7:10p 10:09p -5.4


So from the above I thought I was going to a low tide slack at 7:10P because the F/E was a negative number.

So where did I go wrong?

Help Please....


NOTE:Well my chart stuff won't format properly.

Click to expand...

The positive numbers are the max current during a flood tide and the negative is the max current on the ebb tide. At 12:14 it was slack after the ebb, so a low water slack. Then the flood started and the max flood current was 8 kts at 3:24. Then high water slack occurred at 7:10. Up until 7:10 the tide was flooding north.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

So where did I go wrong?

Click to expand...

Ok, let's see if I can do a decent job here.
I don't have Ports and Passes at my finger tips but in any event, let's work with what you gave me.

SLK MAX F/E
12:35a 3:03a +4.1
5:51a 9:04a -5.8
12:14p 3:24p +8.0
7:10p 10:09p -5.4

To get really simple, let's work backwards:

7:10p 10:09p -5.4
This is the 3 hour period AFTER the slack you aimed for.
7:10 = slack
10:09 = max
-5.4 = rate of current of an ebbing tide at the 10:09 max.

You had the time right and yes you were an hour early, as I noted in a previous post.

Now, this is just for general information.
Because I am old school, I would be working with paper.
A CHS chart for flood and ebb arrows.
A CFO Tide Table
A CFO Current Table.

Dodd Narrows May 24 2016;
CHS shows flood running to the north.
Tide table puts high tide at Ladysmith, south of Dodd, at 8:10PM (PST)*
Tide table puts high tide at Nanaimo, north of Dodd at 8:21PM (PST)*
Current table puts Dodd slack at 6:10PM (PST)*

All 3 references confirm state, direction and times.

*Time data can vary between PST and PDT depending on publication. Always confirm.

In the olden days, we did not have current tables. Just a reference tidal point.

For example, Skoocumchuck Narrows slack could be up to 4.5 hours after the high or low tide at Point Atkinson, over 50nm away. Hence the confusion refered to by Ted and Keith.

So, anyone not up to speed with tides and currents could legitimately ask how slack in the above post could occur two hours before high tide.

Current and tide are two entirely different animals.
Looking at Dodd narrows, slack occurs when the water level north and south of the narrows equalizes.

Because, in the case of the flood, the north fills from many areas, it equalizes ahead of high tide. The tide then just continues it's overall general rise for another 2 hours.

True slack water occurs for only a few minutes. However the rate of current is so slow before and after slack tide that it may "appear" to be slack for a long period of time.


Growing up on Malaspina Strait we liked to fish the slack, which could vary from 30 minutes to a couple of hours, depending on tide range and location.

It is fun and interesting to track the tides and times through Juan de Fuca and into/out of Georgia Strait.

Next lesson:
The Rule of Twelfths and how to crack a beer with a cod jig.

Thank you Hawg. In the Passes and Tide daylight savings is taken into consideration and I just noticed at the bottom of the page is the direction of flood and ebb.....

Hawg-the Rule of Twelfths I know, but how the hell do you crack a beer with a cod jig? That could be lifesaving information.

THD said:

Hawg-the Rule of Twelfths I know, but how the hell do you crack a beer with a cod jig? That could be lifesaving information.

Click to expand...

Ok, first ya gotta put a cold one 'tween yer knees. Grab 'er neck with yer left hand...what? Hang on...aw geeze, buddy sez this thing has a twist top...sez they all do!

Crusty Chief said:

Hope the falls are still running at Chatterbox, we left there on the 16th and it was fantastic. The early heat caused the snow melt early and I suspect the majority of the falls will dry up middle to end of June.

Click to expand...

I've never heard of that. I've been many times, including a couple of times in August and it's always been roaring like crazy. This year I won't be able to make it until September or early October, and I'll go whether the falls are roaring or not, as it's so beautiful there, but I'm curious - did someone tell you that, or, did you read it somewhere?

Nsail said:

I've never heard of that.

Click to expand...

I did a double take and decided he was referring to some of the other 50 plus falls up there. If Chatterbox dries up, we are in worse shape than I thought.

I haven't been up there in 40 years. Last time was during a very nasty week in April repairing Malibu Camp from the ravages of Winter.

That would take a pretty significant drought to dry up those falls. Last time I was there in early May there was for sure a difference in the flow between morning and late afternoon as the sun had time to melt more snow.

With a forecast like that, you guys might be there a few days waiting to cross. As you probably learned while researching this trip, the Strait of Georgia has a reputation for producing steep waves with a short duration, and it doesn't take much wind to kick it up. But you are in a good spot as you can go ashore with your binoculars and look out over the straits. I have crossed before at daybreak and also at mid afternoon. Remember too that if the forecast is giving you wave heights at the various weather stations, it will be in meters, not feet. Makes a big difference.

Yes, I was referring to the 50 some falls in general. We saw a few that were down to a trickle, and the ranger onsite is who said half of them will probably dry up in a month or so from our trip on May 16th. The place is pretty amazing.

The ranger has been concerned about the mold in her cabin, so much so, that for a few years she was sleeping in a tent, and last year a govt. inspector closed the cabin down for living in. She has no idea when the mold remediation team will show up. But for the time being, she commutes via her boat to a ranger station an hour or so away. Pretty hard core for them Canadian Rangers.

Russell Clifton said:

With a forecast like that, you guys might be there a few days waiting to cross. As you probably learned while researching this trip, the Strait of Georgia has a reputation for producing steep waves with a short duration, and it doesn't take much wind to kick it up. But you are in a good spot as you can go ashore with your binoculars and look out over the straits. I have crossed before at daybreak and also at mid afternoon. Remember too that if the forecast is giving you wave heights at the various weather stations, it will be in meters, not feet. Makes a big difference.

Click to expand...

Thank You. We are staying put till Saturday morning. It is thunder and lightning right now.....