One whole week of boat ownership...more disaster!

dhays said:

Thanks for the information. Sorry to the OP for the thread hijack.

FWIW, my marina policies state NO refueling of boats in the marina. When I forgot to shut off the diesel heater on my sailboat a couple years ago and emptied the fuel tank, I had to get special permission to bring down a 5 gallon container of diesel to put in my tank.

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That's what blue 5 gallon containers are for.

Sorry folks, we were away all day packing up a house. So let's start with the AC water pump. This is a 1982 boat and the water pump looked like it was about the same vintage. One pump split between two AC units. Our control panels are knob style. No digital readout so, error codes, or alarms. There is also no switch that cycles the water pump with the compressor operation. The pump is hard wired in with the unit main power. Main switch on either unit means water pump on. I checked the breakers, cycled the units, and checked the wiring before isolating the pump and removing it. After removal (did I mention it was split between the two units using galvanized fitting) I tested the pump by wiring a plug on it and plugging into a shore outlet. Nothing. No run, no hum, no motor clicking, no nothing. As a disassembled the discharge tee and suction reducer, I'm amazed any water was flowing through the thing. It was clogged solid with what looked like rust particles. And yes I did check the sea strainer before disassembling the pump and it was clean (I had cleaned it about 4 days prior). So, long story short, my diagnosis is that the clogged impeller overheated the motor resulting in electrical failure. And if that isn't correct, it really doesn't matter because it still don't pump. New pump arrives tomorrow.

Now for the fuel fun. We had run the boat for about 2 and a half to 3 operating hours before pulling in for fuel. Decision to stop for fuel was mostly to practice docking and to top off from the previous few trips up and down the river. During the 2 to 3 hours of cruising, I ran the engines from idle to WOT several times. Pushing the boat and testing things. No issues (other than it still doesn't get to rated top speed but that a future troubleshooting thread ). Anyhow, engines ran great all day. At fuel dock, verified sign on pump read 100% gasoline, so unless the sign lies, I'm figuring it is supposed to be ethanol free gas. As previously stated, this is an un-manned pay at the pump fuel station. Got it all set up and pumped about 43 gallons per the meter (2 times 21.4 gallons because that equaled the max credit card payment of $75, yep do the math on that per gallon price ). Put everything back, cranked up engines, cast off lines, and idled out of the slip back to the river channel. Was just setting in to wait for the next bridge opening to pass back upriver and every engine on the boat (two mains and the gen set) shutdown within seconds of each other. Tried re-start a couple of time with no success. Dropped anchor. Opened all the hatches and got down in engine room to see what was what. Pulled the port engine fuel filter (canister with filter inside) and dumped the liquid in it into a clean metal container. No signs of separated liquid. It was all homogenous. So either all fuel or all water. Poured half a bottle of water into the container. Still no separation layer. So, conclusion was the filter housing was 100% water. Same condition on other engines. Not having the equipment on board yet to drain who know how much water, called boat US (best $165 dollars spent to date on the boat).

Contacted marina where fuel dock is first thing in the morning and left message. Called back an hour later and got a person who confirmed that they got my message and where checking their tanks and pumps. About an hour and a half later got a return call that their tanks all tested clean and dry. And they have pictures of the tape to prove it. Told them I appreciated their thoroughness and that despite their assurances I would still be disputing the credit card charges for the fuel until my mechanic had done a complete de-inventory of my fuel system and could give me an accounting of water quantity. Then if indeed it was a complete coincidence around the timing of this event, I would be happy to say so and remit payment. If on the other hand significant quantity of water is discovered for which no other plausible source can be located then they should expect a bill instead.

In the grand scheme of boating adventures, especially birthday boating adventures, I would say this day was a pretty full and adventurous one.

And totally off topic but..... The re-cored and glassed cockpit hatches came out awesome! And the track vision is all hooked up and working. I have fixed the non-functioning oil pressure gauge. The windlass works great. I am way more of a contortionist than I ever thought possible. I know where the fuel filters are. And you can legally have a drink while being towed in.:lol::lol:

Gulf Comanche said:

Star:
What fuel delivery service do y'all use? Thanks.

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We haven't used it yet, but the receipt I saw from the PO was from Blossman. I know they require a 100 gallon minimum.

tcpip95 said:

How many fuel tanks do you have on your boat? I ask this because I have two; I had a very similar thing happen to me a couple of years ago. Pulled in to a marina to fill up tank #1, switched over to fuel tank #2, and headed out. About 15 minutes later my engine alarm goes off and I'm dead in the water. As it turned out, the gas cap for tank #2 was not seated properly (probably since the last time I filled it), and ended up with some water getting into the tank. I had a fuel-water separator in front of the engine, as well as another float filter on my engine itself, so it shut the engine down before any damage was done. I did however, drain a good couple of gallons of water out of tank #2.

Moral of the story: something as simple as an improperly seated gas cap can shut you down.

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We only have one fuel tank (currently). But that was a thought and I suppose possibly still a possibility. But it sure seems that if that were the case then the problem would have made itself known prior.
We had taken the boat out 3 times...once for the sea trial and twice after we bought it. I'd say we ran it around 6-7 hours total on the existing fuel in the tank. Not even a hint of a problem. So it just seems awfully coincidental that this happened within minutes of putting fuel in the boat. And someone said well maybe adding the fuel sloshed things around in there but wouldn't running the boat for the time we ran it sloshed things around in there already?

It appears that you have a 370 gallon tank (couldn't find your exact boat, but an '83, 47' show that tank size). If you only added 43 gallons (I think that's what you said) I'm sceptical that the fuel from the dock would have had that much water in it to stall you out.

The sloshing in the boat would have actually helped you (somewhat) as water is heavier than gasoline, so the water would settle to the bottom when sitting, and gotten somewhat mixed while underway. Your tank feeds fuel from the bottom, so the first thing it would have drawn after sitting would be water.

Hmmm.......

hmason said:

That's what blue 5 gallon containers are for.

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Kerosene??? Pretty sure the issue is the act of refueling, not the color of the container. I keep jerry cans of gas for the dinghy motor. I can't refuel in the marina, but nobody cares if I carry a sealed container onto my boat.

Shrew said:

Kerosene??? Pretty sure the issue is the act of refueling, not the color of the container. I keep jerry cans of gas for the dinghy motor. I can't refuel in the marina, but nobody cares if I carry a sealed container onto my boat.

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Ha, ha. You missed my attempt at some fun. Blue containers are for water. Carry blue containers and you won't be accused of fueling.

Not easy to pin a water in fuel issue on a vendor, especially if they hear about the issue and sneak around to the tank and do a drain.

Pretty rare in my experience for the vendor to actually be the source of water. I'm sure it happens, but rare. Mostly the water gets in from crummy deck fill caps and rain or boat wash water gets in. Why it showed up now?? No clue..

Anyhow, the good thing is water in gas does not really hurt gassers. Get the water out, get them running, then once all ok change the filters. Just don't let them sit in this condition.

Now you are finding out while boats always seem to have so many tools aboard!!!

Figure out how to lance your tank to suck out whatever is in the bottom. That's an essential thing to know how to do on any boat.

Now you are finding out why boats have so many tools on board!!!

tcpip95 said:

It appears that you have a 370 gallon tank (couldn't find your exact boat, but an '83, 47' show that tank size). If you only added 43 gallons (I think that's what you said) I'm sceptical that the fuel from the dock would have had that much water in it to stall you out.

The sloshing in the boat would have actually helped you (somewhat) as water is heavier than gasoline, so the water would settle to the bottom when sitting, and gotten somewhat mixed while underway. Your tank feeds fuel from the bottom, so the first thing it would have drawn after sitting would be water.

Hmmm.......

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We only have a 150 gallon tank. Originally the boat had two for a total of 300 gallons but when the PO bought it both tanks were no good so he had them removed and only put one back in and he put it in the center. They were liveaboards with no plans to go anywhere far that would require him to carry more fuel so I'm guessing it saved him money to just go back with one. That's one of the things that hubby wants to change down the road.

tcpip95 said:

It appears that you have a 370 gallon tank (couldn't find your exact boat, but an '83, 47' show that tank size). If you only added 43 gallons (I think that's what you said) I'm sceptical that the fuel from the dock would have had that much water in it to stall you out.

The sloshing in the boat would have actually helped you (somewhat) as water is heavier than gasoline, so the water would settle to the bottom when sitting, and gotten somewhat mixed while underway. Your tank feeds fuel from the bottom, so the first thing it would have drawn after sitting would be water.

Hmmm.......

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As to your comment about water settling when sitting, that's why we think the issue would have made itself known before. The PO hadn't used the boat in a while when we went for our sea trial so it had been sitting and the engines cranked right up and so did generator. Then it sat again for a few weeks until we closed on it. It was then moved from his slip to ours. Then two days later we took it out for a couple of hours and again, cranked right up and ran fine. Then it sat for another week before we took it out again. So like I said it's just awfully councidental that mixtures after putting fuel in everything just shut down at once and we find water. If I'm not mistaken and hubby can correct me if I am, I think we still had somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the tank when we added the fuel.

But mechanic is coming tomorrow morning so we'll see what he says. At this point it really doesn't matter...marina where we bought fuel said they didn't have any water in their tank and we don't have any way to prove they did if that's what happened. So we'll just get it taken care of but we will never get fuel there again.

Ski in NC said:

Not easy to pin a water in fuel issue on a vendor, especially if they hear about the issue and sneak around to the tank and do a drain.

Pretty rare in my experience for the vendor to actually be the source of water. I'm sure it happens, but rare. Mostly the water gets in from crummy deck fill caps and rain or boat wash water gets in. Why it showed up now?? No clue..

Anyhow, the good thing is water in gas does not really hurt gassers. Get the water out, get them running, then once all ok change the filters. Just don't let them sit in this condition.

Now you are finding out while boats always seem to have so many tools aboard!!!

Figure out how to lance your tank to suck out whatever is in the bottom. That's an essential thing to know how to do on any boat.

Now you are finding out why boats have so many tools on board!!!

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Haha yep. Hubby has been building a toolbox for the boat. I think he finally went and bought a set of something just for the boat. We only live about 5 miles or so from the marina but it's a pain when we need something you didn't think to bring and then have to stop and make a run to the house. But there are several liveaboards in the marina and somebody is bound to have something you need.

Stars,
Dont feel bad, your experiences are similar to many of us, me included, although some of the issues i had were of my own making. After you shake out all the issues, you're boat's problems will occur less frequently.

bligh said:

Stars,
Dont feel bad, your experiences are similar to many of us, me included, although some of the issues i had were of my own making. After you shake out all the issues, you're boat's problems will occur less frequently.

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I dunno, taking out two tanks and putting a centered one back in is not very similar to me.

Not sure what would have been done to the stringers to achieve that.

menzies said:

I dunno, taking out two tanks and putting a centered one back in is not very similar to me.

Not sure what would have been done to the stringers to achieve that.

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Hubby is not at all thrilled with this...but it wasn't enough of an issue to deter us from buying the boat. But I guess we'll find out when we get ready to remove it and put two new ones in back where the originals were.

bligh said:

Stars,
Dont feel bad, your experiences are similar to many of us, me included, although some of the issues i had were of my own making. After you shake out all the issues, you're boat's problems will occur less frequently.

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Haha I'm sure we're gonna have plenty of those too...problems of our own making! Just give us a little time.

Star0210 said:

Hubby is not at all thrilled with this...but it wasn't enough of an issue to deter us from buying the boat. But I guess we'll find out when we get ready to remove it and put two new ones in back where the originals were.

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While the tanks are out - in fact, as you go through the whole removal process - keep an eye out for whatever you can repair/replace/clean/paint/etc. while you're in there. Might not ever get as good a chance to get in there again.

tcpip95 said:

While the tanks are out - in fact, as you go through the whole removal process - keep an eye out for whatever you can repair/replace/clean/paint/etc. while you're in there. Might not ever get as good a chance to get in there again.

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Agreed...and what's kind of neat is that we have the original owners manual and hubby said it shows a few different configurations for fuel tank placement and stuff. I know he wants to move the battery banks so that they're more easily accessible. I've never actually been in the ER but I watched him and two other guys in there doing some contortionist moves. Shoulda video'd that. Hehehe

I have zero ownership in this vessel and I am getting stomach butterflies just reading this.

Anyone else?

High Wire said:

When the AC unit cycles on temperature, the water pump automatically turns off. Set the AC thermostat to 50 degrees and try it again.

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As I was told by and old salesman for Bluewater in the 90's most of there A/C raw water pumps were wired to run all the time. Mine runs 24/7 when unit on.

0210
If it was the marine south of the bridge it seem strange as they sell a good amount of fuel. I have used them when in that area. I have also used that quote " Best $165.00 spent on the boat"

menzies said:

I have zero ownership in this vessel and I am getting stomach butterflies just reading this.

Anyone else?

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Awww c'mon. Don't be a party pooper.
We love our old boat!

kartracer said:

0210
If it was the marine south of the bridge it seem strange as they sell a good amount of fuel. I have used them when in that area. I have also used that quote " Best $165.00 spent on the boat"

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They do but I don't know if they sell all that much premium fuel.

Are you two for real?

Or is this just a TF spoof gone viral.

I am beginning to suspect the latter.

So I am out for now.

menzies said:

Are you two for real?

Or is this just a TF spoof gone viral.

I am beginning to suspect the latter.

So I am out for now.

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Umm...of course we're for real.
What exactly is the problem?

menzies said:

Are you two for real?

Or is this just a TF spoof gone viral.

I am beginning to suspect the latter.

So I am out for now.

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Probably a wise decision on your part.

Star0210 said:

Umm...of course we're for real.
What exactly is the problem?

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You kids seem OK to me! Kinda remind me of these two

Can't wait, as our turn is coming! LOL

Star0210 said:

Umm...of course we're for real.
What exactly is the problem?

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No problem at all. Don't worry about it.

I think you are doing great and will have a great time, and a big education as you move through this process.

menzies said:

Nothing to do with political correctness. If you say you are in for gas he will hand you the gas nozzle and not diesel. That's would be very expensive.

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That's because of the rather strange convention in the US, where you call what we call petrol, (derived from petroleum), gas, when clearly it is not a gas. What we call gas, you have to call propane or butane to make clear what you mean. At least we all call diesel, diesel.

Stars,

Some people don't understand the joy of the adventure! It's your boat and you can do as you please with her.

The majority of us who do get it will always be willing to share our knowledge.

Always good to share some photos of your projects!

Bob & Jill