Electric Boat - Microwave/Convection, Induction Cooktop

Well, I am being quoted the following: Mase 3.5KW 60hz 120V 27Amp.

I will have to double back and make sure this is correct because you are right about the spec sheet. It know that the 3.5'B' was upgraded. So I will get the actual specs from the unit supplier to verify. Here is a pic of what the unit looks like. Even 2.7 KW should be enough for this boat. But this part is a work in progress as the specs are still being hashed out.

dw8928 said:

Well, I am being quoted the following: Mase 3.5KW 60hz 120V 27Amp.

I will have to double back and make sure this is correct because you are right about the spec sheet. It know that the 3.5'B' was upgraded. So I will get the actual specs from the unit supplier to verify. Here is a pic of what the unit looks like. Even 2.7 KW should be enough for this boat. But this part is a work in progress as the specs are still being hashed out.

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The 4.0 which is 3.2 kw appears to be the same footprint.

You might check out the LG "Solardome' multi-function oven...we love it! Combines a microwave, conventional & fan-forced convection oven, grill (top & bottom), etc.. Very energy efficient.


Like others above, no way we would have anything other than a propane cooktop. Safe, convenient and fast; doesn't require genset start-up.

BandB said:

Ok. A couple of notes on those.

An IS 3.5 is not 3.5 kw but only 2.2. It also is 50 hz.
An IS 4.0 is 3.2 kw and is 60 hz.
I don't think they still have the 5.0
An IS 5.7 is 5.5 kw and is 60 hz.

I'm using max power in each of those cases, continuous power being lower.

Between all those models the difference in size is about 3" all the way.

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Aquabelle said:

You might check out the LG "Solardome' multi-function oven...we love it! Combines a microwave, conventional & fan-forced convection oven, grill (top & bottom), etc.. Very energy efficient.


Like others above, no way we would have anything other than a propane cooktop. Safe, convenient and fast; doesn't require genset start-up.

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I will check this unit out!

If you haven't committed to the Seasall engine, I would rethink the John Deere. The four cylinder has a balance shaft, so it will be smooth. And at 4.5 liters you can run it hard and not have to worry about it. That Seasall engine is 3.0 liters and even though it is rated for lots more hp than the JD, you can only use about half of its 270 hp to cruise with.


Even though the interior is vastly different from the old Camano, under water it is the same. And it must weight a bit more as well. The old Volvo at 3.6 liters and 200 hp could push that hull into the low teens running maybe 125-150 hp at that speed.


If you want to cruise in the mid teens, then neither engine will work. I wouldn't try to pull more than 150 hp from a 3 liter engine long term.


David

djmarchand said:

If you haven't committed to the Seasall engine, I would rethink the John Deere. The four cylinder has a balance shaft, so it will be smooth. And at 4.5 liters you can run it hard and not have to worry about it. That Seasall engine is 3.0 liters and even though it is rated for lots more hp than the JD, you can only use about half of its 270 hp to cruise with.


Even though the interior is vastly different from the old Camano, under water it is the same. And it must weight a bit more as well. The old Volvo at 3.6 liters and 200 hp could push that hull into the low teens running maybe 125-150 hp at that speed.


If you want to cruise in the mid teens, then neither engine will work. I wouldn't try to pull more than 150 hp from a 3 liter engine long term.


David

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I've run this Seasall engine up the East Coast. It can be run for 10 hours a day or 3,000 hours/year. It is not continuous duty for sure but don't really need that in this boat. It will get the H31 (Camano) up to 18 knots and that is faster than I want to run since this is really a 13 knot boat. But the Seasall is very very quiet for its size and power and I cannot imagine a JD being anywhere close to as quiet. JD is just underpowered at the moment for this range - whcih will matter on resale.

These engines are also used extensively overseas, but are newer to the US market. Fuel economy is excellent too. So; quiet, smooth, fuel efficient - hard to beat right now.

Here's a good video on YouTube to get an idea of this engine, especially at the end where they have it out of the water:

dw8928 said:

Here's a good video on YouTube to get an idea of this engine, especially at the end where they have it out of the water:

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While I'm sure it's an interesting motor, that video doesn't make your case for low noise. While I wouldn't use a youtube video to judge noise level and engine vibration, that sound at 35 MPH made me cringe. In the video, it's somewhere between finger nails on a chalk board and a 2 stroke outboard from the 1980s.

BTW, sound levels from an out of water engine are intentionally misleading. Running a motor wide open out of the water requires almost no fuel consumption because of no load. The motor would be multiples louder with normal load fuel consumption.

Ted

OK, let me be more specific about the Seasall engine.

Some years ago, Cummins and Mercury formed a partnership to sell the VW based common rail engines. They were similar to the Seasall: high rpm, high power. A few were sold in the US.

But there was no dealer support. The Cummins dealers didn't want to invest in understanding that engine, because they didn't like it. The Mercury gasser guys had no clue. Eventually the partnership was dissolved and Mercury now tries to sell those engines alone, but I don't know of any builder that installs them.

Now look at the Yanmar/BMW marine engines. When they came out, they were the cat's meow: light, low noise, good fuel economy. But the marinization was for ****: no water cooled exhaust manifold or turbo. Yanmar, who has a good dealer network and should know how to do stuff right, stepped up to the plate, recalled all of the engines, installed a water cooled manifold and a heat shield for the turbo. That got them back in the running.5


These three manufacturers: Yanmar, Cummins and Mercury know a thing or two about the US marine engine business, and they screwed it up. Seasall/Hundai know nothing. Can they make it in this market????

The Seasall does not have a water cooled turbo. I don't know about the exhaust manifold. I do know about the US dealer network, nada.

If you want to cruise at 18 kts with that boat, you will need to produce about 200 hp which was the wot speed of the old Camano with the 200 hp Volvo. 200 hp is 67 hp per liter for that engine. That is off all of the charts for continuous, long term use.

I would install the JD in that boat if I was willing to go slow, 10 kts or less. If I wanted to cruise in the high teens I would look for some more displacement either in the Cummins or Volvo line.

If you are willing to go slow and not stress the engine, then the Seasall might be ok at 120 hp or less as the upper limit for decent engine life is 40 hp per liter. Then you could sell your boat someday to some unsuspecting clod who thinks that 270 hp will take him to the upper teens.

But you will be blazing a new trail with that engine with no dealer support. Good luck.

David

djmarchand said:

I do know about the US dealer network, nada.

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And what country do you intend to use it in?

That one sentence you wrote would be enough to keep me from buying it.

djmarchand said:

OK, let me be more specific about the Seasall engine.

These three manufacturers: Yanmar, Cummins and Mercury know a thing or two about the US marine engine business, and they screwed it up. Seasall/Hundai know nothing. Can they make it in this market????


David

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They do have a dealer network with a Texas based distributor:
Dealer Locations Hyundai SeasAll Diesel Engines

djmarchand said:

OK, let me be more specific about the Seasall engine.

I would install the JD in that boat if I was willing to go slow, 10 kts or less. If I wanted to cruise in the high teens I would look for some more displacement either in the Cummins or Volvo line.

David

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Why go slow without a choice? I can just keep the Seasall 270 at a slower RPM and go slow. And in today's world, how many cars or boats do you see on the side of the road broken down for engine troubles regardless of make? Really, almost none. And diesel engines are a lot more reliable than those engines. Here is a brief writeup on the H31's use for the engine:

Hyundai SeasAll

Seasall is sold in 27 European countries at this point including Russia; and now the US.

And it is a quiet engine - promise.

Bay Pelican said:

I like the idea of two generators on an all electric boat if the boat is used for cruising to out of the way anchorages. Shared an anchorage with an all electric boat for a couple of days while we waited until the heavy weather passed. Their generator was out and they couldn't cook, make water or do laundry. With no restaurants or stores around they survived but didn't enjoy it. They could charge the batteries using the main engine but didn't have a 220v invverter.

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That usually means one has four engines to acquire/maintain and also to suffer multiple engine failures.

on all 3 trawler we had we switch by Propane cooker we don't like run generator to cook but we leaving onboard full time whiteout shot power.

we make microwave on inverter

If you install generator don't take high RPM 3600 that really bad generator :bang head:


Hugues

101TUG said:

on all 3 trawler we had we switch by Propane cooker we don't like run generator to cook but we leaving onboard full time whiteout shot power.

we make microwave on inverter

If you install generator don't take high RPM 3600 that really bad generator :bang head:


Hugues

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You have a huge boat! The H31 will only be 28 feet on the interior, so a 3600RPM genset is the default to get the higher 'kw' for the amount of space available as far as I know. Unless propane is used - then the requirements will reduce for 'kw'.

dw8928 said:

You have a huge boat! The H31 will only be 28 feet on the interior, so a 3600RPM genset is the default to get the higher 'kw' for the amount of space available as far as I know. Unless propane is used - then the requirements will reduce for 'kw'.

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While they don't go quite as small as you're seeking, the smallest Northern Lights and Kohlers are 1800 RPM and Onan is 2400. Mase goes larger even than their entry models before reducing to 1800 RPM.

dw8928 said:

They do have a dealer network with a Texas based distributor:
Dealer Locations Hyundai SeasAll Diesel Engines

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Doesn't look like a huge network, to me... Around here, there's a certified Cummins tech on every street corner... and even the Volvo and Yanmar guys aren't too difficult to find...

-Chris

The entire electric vs. propane, how much electric, how to operate electric boils down to one great divide. On one side you have those seeking every possible way to minimize the use of generators, so every additional electric item complicates life just a bit. I'll call this group A. On the other side you have those like us who will be running a generator any time they aren't at a marina so having electric changes nothing and is simpler overall. I'll call this group B.

Now air conditioning is the item that most frequently causes someone to fall into either group A or group B. So, ultimately the great divide comes from location. Freezers, refrigerators, number of guests on board and other things occasionally lead one to group B and heat can if it's electric.

Simply if you're in group A, every electric item has to be carefully looked at. If you're in group B, an additional electric item isn't an issue.

ranger42c said:

Doesn't look like a huge network, to me... Around here, there's a certified Cummins tech on every street corner... and even the Volvo and Yanmar guys aren't too difficult to find...

-Chris

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How many good ones??? X out the bad ones and then see how many are left?

Sharp and GE make good convection microwaves. Have you considered an induction cooktop?

WE are former sailors and came to the darkside about 3 years ago. We bought a 1986 36' Mainship with the aft cabin. One our the things to do was to replace the Eletric range with a propane unit for reasons mentioned above. When it came time for us to leave the coast and go inland, one of the things I did not have time to get to was the propane conversion.
I quickly built a very small table for the rear deck and bought a 2 burner Coleman Camping stove and a 20 lb bottle for it. When on the go or anchored out, we use the outside Coleman for cooking. Combined with the inverter, we dont need to fire up the gen set. An unintended perk is that when on the go, the admiral can fix lunch, coffee, tea, etc and be no further than 5 to 6 feet away from me. I dont have to yell or stamp the deck for her to hear me if I need assistance or to alert her of a an unexpected large wake.
After almost 3 years on inland cruising, I have no need to swap out the electric stove knowing I have the Coleman on the back deck. Between the Coleman and a propane grill on the aft deck, we get along just fine while traveling or anchoring out and the electric stove when at the dock.

stubones99 said:

How many good ones??? X out the bad ones and then see how many are left?

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Fair enough, but the bottom line is still lots, compared to 12 or 15 or whatever...

-Chris

"Unless propane is used - then the requirements will reduce for 'kw'."

The charge requirements can easily be handled by wind or solar IF both cooking and the reefer are propane powered.

With a 20# bottle of propane at about $15 that will last a month , and noisemakers costing $5,000 to $10,000 to install or replace and $5.00 to $12.00 per hour to operate the savings are immense.

The "pricless" part is the noise free boat and anchorage mates that dont detest you and your lifestyle.

ff said:

........the "pricless" part is the noise free boat and anchorage mates that dont detest you and your lifestyle.

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amen!

FF said:

The charge requirements can easily be handled by wind or solar IF both cooking and the reefer are propane powered.

With a 20# bottle of propane at about $15 that will last a month , and noisemakers costing $5,000 to $10,000 to install or replace and $5.00 to $12.00 per hour to operate the savings are immense.

The "pricless" part is the noise free boat and anchorage mates that dont detest you and your lifestyle.

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Somehow I get the feeling the only one who detests the lifestyle is you. I don't know where you boat that people don't use generators at anchorages, but clearly not in warm, humid areas like others of us do. Similarly, I don't know what vintage generators you're use to that make so much noise that you find them so offensive. Fortunately, we've not run across anchorage mates that find us so detestable and offensive.

I also don't know in what universe you find a generator more noisy than windmills.

djmarchand said:

If I hang out on the hook for a couple of days, running a small genset twice a day for a half hour in the morning for the coffee maker and an hour in the evening to cook and heat up hot water for showers later, also keeps the batteries nicely charged. I do have to manage the load on our 3.5 KW genset- I only switch on the water heater after I finish with the cooktop.

So even like some of you above, I was initially opposed to an all electric kitchen, in practice it works fine.

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My experience is identical to David's. The run-time is reduced considerably, or sometimes not at all, if we're underway during the day and only stopping overnight. We can go for weeks this way.

I have a 7.5 KW genset but find I have to work hard to load it up. For example, heat water, run the range and battery charger simultaneously. Or run the reverse-cycle heat or AC along with one or two other big loads. We could certainly get by nicely on 3.5 KW.

Obviously, if you find it inconvenient to think about your usage patterns, and just want everything to work at the flip of a switch, you go bigger.

BandB said:

Somehow I get the feeling the only one who detests the lifestyle is you. I don't know where you boat that people don't use generators at anchorages, but clearly not in warm, humid areas like others of us do. Similarly, I don't know what vintage generators you're use to that make so much noise that you find them so offensive. Fortunately, we've not run across anchorage mates that find us so detestable and offensive.

I also don't know in what universe you find a generator more noisy than windmills.

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Our thoughts exactly, expressed here many times, and we are avid anchorers and users of moorings, not just for overnights but days and weeks on end.

To me, having a generator and not using it regularly is both neglect and a needless exercise in de minimus frugality. I also interpret people who identify engines as something which will inevitably break as people who neglect them. Just get a sailboat with no auxiliary if that's your philosophy.

"I also don't know in what universe you find a generator more noisy than windmills."

The wind machine folks have been fighting the noise for 20-30 years and a few mfg now offer a quiet version of blades on new units , or for retrofits .

While a lift muffler setup can silence a noisemaker , the stench of an operating diesel remains.

When air cond , it doesn't matter too much as most all will be buttoned up inside breathing recycled cool air.

On nice evenings when many folks use the BBQ to burn meat or enjoy adult beverages in their cockpits , being in a diesel exhaust aroma area looses much of the allure .

Just because there not shooting holes at the water line , doesn't mean your neighbors love you.

FF said:

"I also don't know in what universe you find a generator more noisy than windmills."

The wind machine folks have been fighting the noise for 20-30 years and a few mfg now offer a quiet version of blades on new units , or for retrofits .

While a lift muffler setup can silence a noisemaker , the stench of an operating diesel remains.

When air cond , it doesn't matter too much as most all will be buttoned up inside breathing recycled cool air.

On nice evenings when many folks use the BBQ to burn meat or enjoy adult beverages in their cockpits , being in a diesel exhaust aroma area looses much of the allure .

Just because there not shooting holes at the water line , doesn't mean your neighbors love you.

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After reading countless posts from you about your disdain for the "noisemaker", I find it odd that you still own a boat. In all my years of cruising and fishing, we've never been bothered by the noise of a genset, nor have we been shot at while on the hook due to running the genset.

Perhaps land based tiddlywinks might be a better option for you?

FF said:

"I also don't know in what universe you find a generator more noisy than windmills."

The wind machine folks have been fighting the noise for 20-30 years and a few mfg now offer a quiet version of blades on new units , or for retrofits .

While a lift muffler setup can silence a noisemaker , the stench of an operating diesel remains.

When air cond , it doesn't matter too much as most all will be buttoned up inside breathing recycled cool air.

On nice evenings when many folks use the BBQ to burn meat or enjoy adult beverages in their cockpits , being in a diesel exhaust aroma area looses much of the allure .

Just because there not shooting holes at the water line , doesn't mean your neighbors love you.

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So your noise argument was bogus and now you've moved on to a stench argument. If there was truly a stench, we'd be the ones most affected and we're not. We spend time on the decks. What do you do? Anchor right on top of people? You know you're really quite transparent. You have a distaste for anyone not just like you.

We're very conscious of any problems we might cause others, but the only issues I've seen in anchorages are people anchoring on top of each other and getting tangled, anchors not holding, drunken behavior, and people returning to their boats by dinghy at 2:00 AM and oblivious to the fact others are sleeping. And, you know what? We accept it all as just part of the deal. If we want zero annoyance by others, then we best move on far away from anyone else.