I think that is great news on so many levels.Larry M; said:The VDR has been found.
Thanks Larry.
I think that is great news on so many levels.Larry M; said:The VDR has been found.
Completely with you on that. The degree of expertise to find that, where it lies, is amazing.Man I sure hope they can get the data out of that thing. Kudos on the find!!
Does anyone know if a VDR has it's own power?
I think the most critical information on El Faro will come from the audios; ship to shore and wheelhouse conversations. If the ship was completely without power during the final minutes, would that audio be lost?
psneeld?
Completely with you on that. The degree of expertise to find that, where it lies, is amazing.
The information they might gain, even if never resolving much, will be so helpful in the education process.
I get POed at people who call this kind of exercise a waste of money.
F35s and jazz playing robots are a waste of money.
I am perplexed as to what the proponents of this boondoggle believe will be discovered in the black box that will advance the cause of safety in the fleet. Think about what's on those tapes and then make a case that overall fleet safety will be degraded without that information. Be specific. Keep in mind that this was an antiquated, virtually one (maybe two) of a kind, known pile of junk. Now, there are known oversight and decision making errors from top to bottom...but the black box isn't needed to fix them.
This is about assigning blame and second guessing...not advancing safety.
http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/cleveland/4-rescued-from-lake-erie-in-separate-incidents/197100619
I am perplexed as to what the proponents of this boondoggle believe will be discovered in the black box that will advance the cause....this was an antiquated, virtually one (maybe two) of a kind, known pile of junk.
This is about assigning blame and second guessing...not advancing safety.
That is exactly the need. It was the crews choice to go to sea in this sled. That's a poor choice to go to work.
But it was managements decision ( choice, maintenance schedule, discretion, option ) to not make an intelligent informed decision to turn it into razor blades years ago.
Also, Looking into the inspection, certification system that allowed, authorized and approved such certifications should be called into question.
But first the 'blame game' has to play out which would be handy to hear the activity on the bridge to eliminate the crew as an issue.
I never said the investigation should be terminated. I said the recovery of the black box is a hugely expensive endeavor that will have no substantive payoff in terms of safety for the fleet at large.
I would agree that the 'promise' of vdr data is minimal. BUT if there is anything there that can confirm that the crew did everything possible to save a rustbucket, then the problem lies elsewhere.
The issue of companies pushing the envelope is the issue. However until management is held accountable........... Nah. Probably won't happen. Who has the better lawyers? Yeah. That's the way the system works. I'm jaded.
Ultimately, civil losses do little to deter non-public companies it seems. However, criminal charges can do more and if the company showed reckless disregard for the safety of their employees then criminal charges are possible. They've tried mounting their defense from day one by saying it was all up to the captain. That doesn't fly with me. It's a typical attempt at escaping corporate responsibility. They're also pressured settlements through pointing to arcane laws. Then, of course, you toss in ownership of the ships as other avoidance tasks.
I have little tolerance of an employee who falls back on "I was told (or ordered) to do it" and little tolerance of an employer who says "I didn't know" or "he had full responsibility." It goes both ways and we all have responsibility for our actions and as business owners and managers we have responsibility for the practices of our business.
I would agree that the 'promise' of vdr data is minimal. BUT if there is anything there that can confirm that the crew did everything possible to save a rustbucket, then the problem lies elsewhere.
The issue of companies pushing the envelope is the issue. However until management is held accountable........... Nah. Probably won't happen. Who has the better lawyers? Yeah. That's the way the system works. I'm jaded.
So, the ship is in the middle of a hurricane with no power and folks want to question whether the crew was doing everything humanly possible to save the ship? Under the circumstances it defies belief that the blame for the accident would or could be placed on crew actions once the emergency began. They were between a rock and a hard place and fighting for their lives, folks. Keep in mind the company would like nothing better than to start shifting blame to crew actions during the emergency. That would be an abomination.
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Pretty simplistic. How far back do you follow those dots?semi-planing; said:The event leading to the loss of the ship was loss of power.
Pretty simplistic. How far back do you follow those dots?
From testimony yesterday, we learn Joaquin information given to the El Faro on the morning before sailing, could have been up to 21 hours behind because of a reporting "anomaly."
Let's just go shoot some pool and let this thing unfold.
No, I want to question:
What was the response or lack thereof from the emergency line?
That should be learned through the sworn testimony of the people on the land line...if it's not recorded. In any case, I can't imagine what bearing it would have on events unfolding aboard the ship at that point.
Just don't waste my tax money raising a black box that will add zip to the conclusions and give the company lawyers ammunition to shift blame to the crew.
Follow the dots preceding the power plant failure as far back as possible. Nail everyone who screwed up along the way. Fix the process related issues. Just don't waste my tax money raising a black box that will add zip to the conclusions and give the company lawyers ammunition to shift blame to the crew.
Do you think they'd tell the truth... and preserve whatever recordings there might have been... without the black box recording hanging over their heads?
Haven't the company people attempted to shift blame to the crew already... since not having the black box better allows them to do that?
-Chris
Then I guess you know all the parameters recorded if there are any past voice on the bridge?
Simplified Voyage Data Recorder
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/SVDR_Handout_26Apr16.pdf
Doesn't appear that the power plant was instrumented and limited data on the hull. 12 hours.